Brisbane Draft Discussion (#1)

[lionshine]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Im not saying I like this but I have a feeling the club wants both Raines and Staker and will get deals done meaning both of them will be on our list next year

 

[acuguy]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Kane Cornes- Yes please, previously i have been opposed to trading first round picks, but we would easily get 5 great years out of Cornes. He regularly destroys the best midfielder from the opposition and then picks up 30 touches himself.

 

[whatboutbob]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Kane Cornes- Yes please, previously i have been opposed to trading first round picks, but we would easily get 5 great years out of Cornes. He regularly destroys the best midfielder from the opposition and then picks up 30 touches himself.

Who/what would you be prepared to trade? "Just" the lions first round pick? If so, I suspect that won't cut it. Can't imagine he'll be cheap. If Port were to settle for that then you'd think we'd jump at it, along with everyone else.

Unfortunately I seem to recall reading that Port are looking for basically the same type of players that we are, so unless they're looking to rebuild through the draft (which is highly unlikely with Williams on shaky ground) then we're screwed.

Kane will be 27 come round 1 next year, so I would've thought closer to 3 great years and then cross your fingers...maybe 2 or 3 more "good" years would be more realistic than 5 great years.

 

[Quigley]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Teams know that Kane is not damaging by foot and there have been locker room issues around him so his price might not be as high as many might expect just by looking at his numbers. Port will be asking a lot but will probably be realistic when they start talking to other teams given the season they have just come off.

 

[Quigley]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

If I was Brisbane I would not be trading our first two picks unless we got quality young players, not inconsistent spuds like Staker and Raines. Possibilities for our picks and the order in which I rate them are:

First Round
1. Ben Cunnington: very unlikely to slip to our pick, but is possible so I have included him. Is an animal at the contest, very hard and tough with good skills and the ability to go forward and kick multiple goals. Not quick, endurance? lack of development left in him seem to be the knocks => sound like anyone!

2. Dustin Martin: Unlikely to slip to us again but has excellent skills over 50m on both sides of the body, very attacking but gets caught forward of the ball a bit and his opponent can run off him. Doubt he will fall to us. COuld go between 4-10.

3. Gary Rohan: Speed, X-factor and great marking ability, a bit like the old Jared Brennan in his inconsistency and tendency to fade out of games, but has a similar leap. As a foward has good defensive skills as well as excellent roving ability. Queries over his kicking can be either very good or average. Would be a perfect pick for us as that forward option that can win us a game and contribute a couple of goals a game, and then move into the midfield perhaps later on. A very raw prospect that will probably not fall to us, 5-10 prediction. Potentially could be a very good player yet also huge rsk he will be a bust.

4. Koby Stevens: A fairly good chance that he will fall wo us, it depends on Port, Hawthorn and Carlton picking up talls before us. Another powerful aggressive player who would add some more grunt to our midfield as well as some class and skill. Good kick and mark who is also a goal kicker. Lacks pace, but endurance seems to be all right and he does not seem slow, but more of a natural footballer like Cunnington and Martin. Draft prediction 5-15.

5, Luke Tapscott: The best kick of the draft in my and many others opinions, yet also a good mark and a noted goal kicker. With him and Rich bombing it 60m to Brown we could be very well placed. Plays as a high half forward, who can at the moment have short bursts in the middle. Queries over pace, yet for mine does not look slow or rushed, and endurance, will he ever move into the midfield. Also he seems fairly physically developed for his age! Prediction: 5-15.

Others: Would not rule out Daniel Talia as a tall option looks to be an excellent CHF/CHB option.

Nice summary Offsider. I would love us to get Cunnington but as mentioned probably unlikely at this stage. I am not so keen on Rohan for us and think he is overrated on here but that is just my personal opinion. Tapscott is a favourite of mine and think he will play a lot more midfield than many expect and play it very well especially after a preseason or two. In that professional environment he should thrive. If we picked up Martin or Stevens I would be equally happy.

It is not far fetched for all of those players to be gone however. Key positions are very weak this year and so it is going to be all small mediums early unless you reach for the likes of Griffith (who I think will be the best KP to come out of this draft when he gets his body right). Don't be surprised to if Butcher falls outside the top 5. He has been buoyed by hype from last year and his form and attitude have left a fair bit to be desired so far this year. Talia could fall to us and I really like the way he reads the play and like Hurley could go forward or back. Has had an injury lately and that might affect his status a bit. If we wanted to add some depth to our KPD crew he would be the man and would be a good pick if the guys you have mentioned are gone.

 

[BigCat2]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Though the midfield is still an area of need for us, I wouldn't be averse to drafting a tall, depending on how the club views guys like Tyler and Clouston.

For years we've said that talls are a strength of our list, have a look though and you'll see our depth isn't great.
- Clark may well end up a ruckman
- Brennan doesn't play too much KPP these days
- Roe has gone backwards
- Garner injured yet again, and will likely be cut

After Bradshaw, Brown, Merrett and Patfull (and Roe who'll likely be moved on), our next most experienced tall is Henderson with 15 games. Collier is promising but isn't ready. I suspect the club likes Cornelius' work.

So that leaves Tyler and Clouston. If the club cuts 1 of them, I expect us to take a tall in the draft.

 

[Judge]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

What about Grose then?

Is he potentially good/big enough to play senior footy as a KPP?

 

[POBT]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Though the midfield is still an area of need for us, I wouldn't be averse to drafting a tall, depending on how the club views guys like Tyler and Clouston.

For years we've said that talls are a strength of our list, have a look though and you'll see our depth isn't great.
- Clark may well end up a ruckman
- Brennan doesn't play too much KPP these days
- Roe has gone backwards
- Garner injured yet again, and will likely be cut

After Bradshaw, Brown, Merrett and Patfull (and Roe who'll likely be moved on), our next most experienced tall is Henderson with 15 games. Collier is promising but isn't ready. I suspect the club likes Cornelius' work.

So that leaves Tyler and Clouston. If the club cuts 1 of them, I expect us to take a tall in the draft.

I don't even think about Collier as a possible KPP - I'm almost convinced that he'll be a flanker or onballer.

 

[GabbaMan]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

I don't even think about Collier as a possible KPP - I'm almost convinced that he'll be a flanker or onballer.

Collier will be a good honest, plonding footballer whever he plays, but matchwinner . . .!

 

[Stocka]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

I would not be against getting K.Cornes. He is a better tagger than any that we currently have. He can also rack up getting the ball quite a bit, and although his disposal is not crash hot, once again, I'd still have him ahead of players of a similar ilk on our list already (ie: Stiller, Rischitelli, etc.).

K.Cornes is also a big-game player and has that strong mental ability to put his best football out on the park in big occasions and against top opponents. He would be a good option to put on those elite midfielders such as G.Ablett and C.Judd and I am not sure that we have someone who is entirely capable of that on our list at this point in time.

With that said, we would want to think long and hard about what we were prepared to give in exchange. A first round pick might be a fair price, but it is a significant one as well.

 

[Stocka]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

For what it's worth, I wouldn't say no to the prospect of B.Ebert or D.Pearce either, but I wouldn't entertain us trying to pick up multiple Port off-casts.

 

[lionshine]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

People forget that we are still very storng in our kpp. Brown still has 4 years to run on his contarct after this year. Patful could play another 10 years althoug unlikely but 7 or 8 you would think. Merret 6 or 7. Cornelius, Clouston, Henderson all 10 plus years. We need amidfielder because Rich and Redden is all we have I rekon that could be stars!

 

[MTG08]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Smoky for the rookie list: Gavin Grose, former rookie with Port Adelaide, now back with Mounties in the QAFL. Has had a pretty good year in defence apparently.

Its not a irregular occurence to see Gav do kickouts at training that reach within 15 metres of the centre circle. Saw one last week if i remember correctly, kicked over the zone defence

 

[Hollow Knight]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Its not a irregular occurence to see Gav do kickouts at training that reach within 15 metres of the centre circle. Saw one last week if i remember correctly, kicked over the zone defence

Heard anything about the Lions sniffing?

 

[lionshine]

Majak Daw???

I rekon we should draft him with our 3rd or 4th roundpick. Reminds me alot of Nick Naitnaui. Could be a star! Nice kick, Good Handball, Very Strong Mark, Fast, awarness is good and he looks fit. Here is a link to his video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZYr4YqzYK0

 

[POBT]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

People forget that we are still very storng in our kpp.

People aren't forgetting it - they're disputing it.

Brown still has 4 years to run on his contarct after this year.

He has 3 years left. He signed a 4 year contract in 2008.

Patful could play another 10 years althoug unlikely but 7 or 8 you would think.

He is 25 in a couple of months. Bank on getting 6 more seasons. Any more is a bonus.

Merret 6 or 7.

He's 5 days younger than Patfull and yet will have a shorter career?

Cornelius, Clouston, Henderson all 10 plus years.

And back to the issue. These guys (Hendo being the possible exception) are far from rolled gold certainties to be 200 game KPPs. If we need to replace both Brown and Bradshaw in the next 3 years, we're running a risk if we pin our hopes on these 3. We are one KPP short on our roster, particularly if, as BigCat says, we delist Tyler or Clouston this year.

We need amidfielder because Rich and Redden is all we have I rekon that could be stars!

You act as though we have only 1 draft pick this year. Surely we can take a midfielder and a KPP?

I've seen people pooh-pooh phantom drafts this year because they have a tall player being selected by Brisbane. I believe that we are not so strong for KP players that we can't at least consider taking a tall forward or defender, even with our first or second pick. Chances are, with the weak draft for talls, we won't take one. But that is different to ruling it out pre-draft.

 

[NAUGHT5]

Re: Majak Daw???

He looks like a prospect but i think there might be a few clubs who will take him with their 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Being your first draft on bigFooty lionshine... I'd advise you to just go with the flow and see what happens.

Things very rarely pan out as predicted. Its easy to jump on a different player's bandwagon every day but there are so many variables involved that pretending to have an idea what the Lions are thinking doesn't really impress anyone.

You'll discover very quickly that the groupthink of the BigFooty draft board rarely gets it right. Jack Redden for example got no mention in any phantoms last year, yet it emerged after the draft that both Brisbane and Melbourne rated him a top 30 selection.

Others like Michael Walters, Mitch Robinson, Rhys O'Keefe, Matt DeBoer, Clancee Pearce were all top 25 picks according to the infinite wisdom of the drafts board... they all slid, some of them to the rookie draft.

Its an interesting social experiment in groupthink. There are only a few posters there that REALLY know what they are talking about (our man Quigley is one of them)... and the rest of the posters there just take the OPINIONS of these few and adopt them mainstream, ranking players that they've only heard of online. Before you know it, some kid with one leg from Manangatang is a "top 10 smokey".

For my first BigFooty draft, I ended up convinced that the Lions should take Austin Lucy with our second pick. Don't get too caught up in hearsay and third hand information.

 

[whatboutbob]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

For the last couple of years, like many of us, I've been screaming for midfielders with our first couple of picks. Lethal's 'best available' approach drove me to distraction (because obviously I know footy so much better than him).

Was very happy to see a change in approach last year but this year I'd actually be happy to revert to "best available" for first round, then an 'even-up' for the 2nd round. Having said that, this year's draft is supposedly light-on for KPPs (according to BF luminaries...so...grain of salt perhaps), so that approach may be difficult.

I tend to agree with POBT that we're not quite as sorted for KPPs as some would have us believe. However I do think we're better off than most clubs in this area, and it wouldn't neccessarily kill us not to have a first-round KPP for another year.

 

[POBT]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

For the last couple of years, like many of us, I've been screaming for midfielders with our first couple of picks. Lethal's 'best available' approach drove me to distraction (because obviously I know footy so much better than him).

As someone who is a proponent of "best available", I actually wanted us to depart from that in 2007. I thought we'd loaded up on talls and needed some class in the midfield. But now, I would be immensely worried about our list if we didn't draft Hendo in the first round.

As supporters, we tend to look for more instant gratification with our youngsters. We also tend to look short term rather than long term - what do we need now vs what will we need in 5 years. In 2007, we were in desperate need of more midfield help but, as supporters, probably overlooked the fact that we'd drafted or promoted a whole bunch of them in the preceding years. We probably also overlooked the fact that it is easier to get a top notch midfielder from the 2nd round of the draft or lower, than it is to get a gun tall forward. In hindsight, Hendo was the right call.

Obviously, no Hendo would have meant we would have taken a Rioli or Ebert with our first pick in 2007. We probably would then have focused on getting another KPP in 2008 - probably not with our first pick (surely Voss and co would not have overlooked Rich) but we may have taken someone like Post or McKernan instead of Redden in the 2nd round.

As good as Rioli is, I think our long term future is more secure with the Henderson-Redden selections than it would have been with a Rioli-Post combination.

 

[chopperduck]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Just opens up way too many variables when you think who you would have ended up with if you drafted differently. I do agree that i think you can find value easier with midfielders with lower picks than you can KPP. Obiously i think it has to be a bit of best available in this draft. General talk is, not a lot of KPP, not like last year anyway, so i would hate for us to draft a KPP no matter what. If there really isn't a KPP there that looks worthy of the pick, id rather us take another mid. There are always other ways via rookie or trade to gain a player or two that you need. Not every draft year has what you want, and i guess thats the job of the recruiters. See who is there and what they need, and if the draftees dont match, you gotta look elsewhere.

 

[Happy_Neale]

Re: Majak Daw???

Dunno about that mate. PSD might be the go, even with the skinny draft. He's is INCREDIBLY inconsistent, but at his best is a game breaker. He will probably get picked up I'd say, but more likely to a rebuilding club.

And he is zero like NicNat, Liam Jurrah might be a better comparison

 

[Tassie4ever]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

And back to the issue. These guys (Hendo being the possible exception) are far from rolled gold certainties to be 200 game KPPs. If we need to replace both Brown and Bradshaw in the next 3 years, we're running a risk if we pin our hopes on these 3. We are one KPP short on our roster, particularly if, as BigCat says, we delist Tyler or Clouston this year.
.

Re your remarks concerning Cornelius, Clouston and Henderson. FWIW, I agree 100%. None of these 3 have established anything like solid credentials to claims as a future KPP yet, certainly when compared to say the Essendon newbies.

I read heaps of posts about Henderson this and that, but he is way from the real thing yet, and may not ever become one. He has size and some pace, but to me lacks body presence commensurate with his size. A solid preseason might sort this out, but who knows. Needs to be quicker off the mark, either that or anticipate better.

With my usual Tassie bias, I think Cornelius could go all the way, although he is probably too small to be a legitimate KPP. Great hands and can kick the ball a mile- saw him running for the 2's and he pinged a torp a good 60m off one step during warm up. Also saw him absolutely lined up and crunched v Western Magpies a few months ago- shrugged it off no worries. Tough lad.

Haven't seen enough of Clouston, and that's the problem.

Just my thoughts- hope they all turn into champs but as you say the odds are against this happening.

 

[Judge]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Obviously, no Hendo would have meant we would have taken a Rioli or Ebert with our first pick in 2007. We probably would then have focused on getting another KPP in 2008 - probably not with our first pick (surely Voss and co would not have overlooked Rich) but we may have taken someone like Post or McKernan instead of Redden in the 2nd round.

As good as Rioli is, I think our long term future is more secure with the Henderson-Redden selections than it would have been with a Rioli-Post combination.

Big call, POBT.

Do you think Hawthorn would take Henderson and Redden in exchange for Cyril? Would we take that deal if offered?

In my view, just about anyone picking from the 07 draft now, with hindsight, would take Cyril first every time.

 

[acuguy]

Re: Brisbane Draft Discussion

Don't think we will know what we have with Henderson until he gets a good run in the forward line.

This years drafting will be about getting the next best available mid. We basically have a 2 year window with Black and Power still being near the top of their game. Rich and Redden will be expected to really drive our midfield forward over the next 2 years. Add another top quality mid who can have some sort of immediate impact and we might find ourselves pushing for a top 4 spot.

The big berger is the key, his ability to take on an equal share of the ruck load will result in Mitch spending more time forward of the ball (assuming big Luey can have a similiar impact on the game as Clark)

I think Voss will draft in a Simmonds as insurance especially if Charman moves on from the club as i expect he might.