Strategy Brisbane Lions Coaching and Staff Thread

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Skoob said:
Completely understandable to "question" or be wary of suggestions.
There is an element though, that seem to have their fingers in their ears, going "Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala",
which to me, seems quite ignorant.
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If people have reasons for not revealing some context as to what had actually been happening then that's fine. But without any details I don't know why it should be expected of people to just believe he is a fractured individual who needs to leave the club ASAP. I would personally feel more ignorant jumping on the 'get him out' bandwagon without actually knowing why.
 
There's healthy scepticism and then there's wilful blindness.

For whatever reason, Rocky and the club are at loggerheads. Can that really be denied? Is anyone suggesting that the relationship between club and player isn't in a bad place?

At the same time, there are persistent and widespread stories of poor attitude and behaviour. Maybe those two things aren't linked. But I don't think you can rule out that the club's perceived change in attitude towards the player might be caused by the player's behaviour. Closing your mind to that possibility seems to me to be fairly naive.

Even if you'd prefer to give the benefit of the doubt, calling "bullshit" loudly whenever something comes up is pretty ordinary unless you know for a fact that something is untrue.
 
Lionheart182 said:
If people have reasons for not revealing some context as to what had actually been happening then that's fine. But without any details I don't know why it should be expected of people to just believe he is a fractured individual who needs to leave the club ASAP. I would personally feel more ignorant jumping on the 'get him out' bandwagon without actually knowing why.
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I think that's fair enough. As I said above, healthy scepticism is fine.

But I think it is possible to have a conversation on the basis that things might be true. While the whole "where's there's smoke, there's fire" thing might be overstated, in this situation we've got a bunch of persistent rumours coupled with what seems to be a club/player fractured relationship. Perhaps you can believe that the smoke is just from a foggy dawn but I don't think you can rule out the possibility of a raging fire burning unseen. And, if that's some sort of possibility, isn't it worth discussing?
 

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POBT said:
There's healthy scepticism and then there's wilful blindness.

For whatever reason, Rocky and the club are at loggerheads. Can that really be denied? Is anyone suggesting that the relationship between club and player isn't in a bad place?

At the same time, there are persistent and widespread stories of poor attitude and behaviour. Maybe those two things aren't linked. But I don't think you can rule out that the club's perceived change in attitude towards the player might be caused by the player's behaviour. Closing your mind to that possibility seems to me to be fairly naive.

Even if you'd prefer to give the benefit of the doubt, calling "bullshit" loudly whenever something comes up is pretty ordinary unless you know for a fact that something is untrue.
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Has anyone called 'bullshit?
 
POBT said:
I think that's fair enough. As I said above, healthy scepticism is fine.

But I think it is possible to have a conversation on the basis that things might be true. While the whole "where's there's smoke, there's fire" thing might be overstated, in this situation we've got a bunch of persistent rumours coupled with what seems to be a club/player fractured relationship. Perhaps you can believe that the smoke is just from a foggy dawn but I don't think you can rule out the possibility of a raging fire burning unseen. And, if that's some sort of possibility, isn't it worth discussing?
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Absolutely it is. Let me just clarify, by no means do I think all is well with Rock and the club. There are clearly some issues there, it is the severity of them and a bit of context which personally make it hard for me to judge whether he should have remained on the list. It is a little insulting to be called ignorant for the simple fact that I don't actually know what has actually happened and have not yet jumped on the bandwagon of wanting him gone at any cost.
 
POBT said:
It wasn't meant to be a direct quote but you seem unwilling to even consider the possibility that the rumours are true. You have effectively admitted as such.
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Seriously?...Isn't a forum where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged...agreed or disagreed with?
 
Lionheart182 said:
Absolutely it is. Let me just clarify, by no means do I think all is well with Rock and the club. There are clearly some issues there, it is the severity of them and a bit of context which personally make it hard for me to judge whether he should have remained on the list. It is a little insulting to be called ignorant for the simple fact that I don't actually know what has actually happened and have not yet jumped on the bandwagon of wanting him gone at any cost.
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That's fair.

I guess we all love the club. Generally, speaking, while players come and go, the club is what remains and, where there is conflict between player and club, most people will align with the club. I think that's fairly natural.

That being the case, if people have or believe information which says that a player is causing harm to the club, they will probably turn against the player. Someone defending the player (for whatever reason, including just giving the player the benefit of the doubt) nearly feels like they are allowing the club to be harmed. That's going to evoke an emotional response, right or wrong.

I think that, for the people who still harbour reservations about whether Rocky is in the wrong, it would be worth considering how hard it is to reach a conclusion that he is damaging the club. To a person, we all love(d) Rocky. Quite a few people who are now "anti-Rocky" were once his greatest defenders. People don't switch allegiances based on fanciful rumour. It breaks my heart that I now want him gone from the club. It is a truly awful feeling to believe that the guy we all wanted as captain is, to put it bluntly, a bit of a shit bloke. I would never reach that conclusion lightly. I'd be more inclined to stick my head in the sand, to be honest. It took a lot for me to come to the realisation. And I think that people who respect me on here (anyone?) would say that I'm fairly balanced as a supporter. Good people say bad things about Rockliff. Sometimes, the weight of evidence just becomes too much to dismiss.

What I will say is that I am still of the view that the situation is retrievable, even if that possibility is remote right now. Others who have access to similar information to mine disagree and that's their prerogative. But, as I've said before, the ball is largely in Rocky's court. He needs to want to change and, if he does, I genuinely hope the club reaches out to him. But things can't continue the way they have been.
 
Football Pope said:
Seriously?...Isn't a forum where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged...agreed or disagreed with?
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Generally, a conversation is a bit more than two people repeating diametrically opposed views ad nauseum.

I didn't say you can't dismiss every rumour. I don't make the rules. I just said it was ordinary. If we're all about freedom of expression, I'm entitled to that point of view.
 
Judge said:
As a forum is supposed to be a two way street, when was the last time you agreed with anyone?
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Isn't that what the like button is for?...believe I've liked a lot of posts...;)
 
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POBT said:
Generally, a conversation is a bit more than two people repeating diametrically opposed views ad nauseum.

I didn't say you can't dismiss every rumour. I don't make the rules. I just said it was ordinary. If we're all about freedom of expression, I'm entitled to that point of view.
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Absolutely as I am mine
 

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Can we get back to coaching? If wanted to read about the rocky debate I'd reopen that thread (which i won't be doing).
 
Leemas said:
But...but.... but how else are we meant to bash rocky all year!
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If history tells us anything flogs are generally exceptionally skilled at doing it themselves without anyone else s intervention.
 
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POBT said:
That's fair.

I guess we all love the club. Generally, speaking, while players come and go, the club is what remains and, where there is conflict between player and club, most people will align with the club. I think that's fairly natural.

That being the case, if people have or believe information which says that a player is causing harm to the club, they will probably turn against the player. Someone defending the player (for whatever reason, including just giving the player the benefit of the doubt) nearly feels like they are allowing the club to be harmed. That's going to evoke an emotional response, right or wrong.

I think that, for the people who still harbour reservations about whether Rocky is in the wrong, it would be worth considering how hard it is to reach a conclusion that he is damaging the club. To a person, we all love(d) Rocky. Quite a few people who are now "anti-Rocky" were once his greatest defenders. People don't switch allegiances based on fanciful rumour. It breaks my heart that I now want him gone from the club. It is a truly awful feeling to believe that the guy we all wanted as captain is, to put it bluntly, a bit of a shit bloke. I would never reach that conclusion lightly. I'd be more inclined to stick my head in the sand, to be honest. It took a lot for me to come to the realisation. And I think that people who respect me on here (anyone?) would say that I'm fairly balanced as a supporter. Good people say bad things about Rockliff. Sometimes, the weight of evidence just becomes too much to dismiss.

What I will say is that I am still of the view that the situation is retrievable, even if that possibility is remote right now. Others who have access to similar information to mine disagree and that's their prerogative. But, as I've said before, the ball is largely in Rocky's court. He needs to want to change and, if he does, I genuinely hope the club reaches out to him. But things can't continue the way they have been.
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I desperately hope things can be turned around and Rocky can be our Rocky again.
 
POBT said:
That's fair.

I guess we all love the club. Generally, speaking, while players come and go, the club is what remains and, where there is conflict between player and club, most people will align with the club. I think that's fairly natural.

That being the case, if people have or believe information which says that a player is causing harm to the club, they will probably turn against the player. Someone defending the player (for whatever reason, including just giving the player the benefit of the doubt) nearly feels like they are allowing the club to be harmed. That's going to evoke an emotional response, right or wrong.

I think that, for the people who still harbour reservations about whether Rocky is in the wrong, it would be worth considering how hard it is to reach a conclusion that he is damaging the club. To a person, we all love(d) Rocky. Quite a few people who are now "anti-Rocky" were once his greatest defenders. People don't switch allegiances based on fanciful rumour. It breaks my heart that I now want him gone from the club. It is a truly awful feeling to believe that the guy we all wanted as captain is, to put it bluntly, a bit of a shit bloke. I would never reach that conclusion lightly. I'd be more inclined to stick my head in the sand, to be honest. It took a lot for me to come to the realisation. And I think that people who respect me on here (anyone?) would say that I'm fairly balanced as a supporter. Good people say bad things about Rockliff. Sometimes, the weight of evidence just becomes too much to dismiss.

What I will say is that I am still of the view that the situation is retrievable, even if that possibility is remote right now. Others who have access to similar information to mine disagree and that's their prerogative. But, as I've said before, the ball is largely in Rocky's court. He needs to want to change and, if he does, I genuinely hope the club reaches out to him. But things can't continue the way they have been.
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That's a great post. The reason we all come back is out of love for the club even in these lean years. It's great that we have such a variety of posters here all of which have their own nuances to add.

I'm actually in a way glad I don't know what has actually happened as it means I can watch him play with no biases so long as he is in a Lions jumper. Sad state of affairs though.
 
Some of these threads are getting mightily tedious now. Just get to the draft already so we can all go home to our many cats.
 
MacMum said:
When is the draft? Must be soon?
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November 25, plenty of time to go yet. There's still a whole extra two DFA periods to go, for all the thrills and excitement that the first produced.
 
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