Bryce Gibbs staying at Carlton - Silvagni in the no blinking zone

[Gethelred]

Bullsh*t. Pick 13 and steak knives is fair.

As is two first rounders with our second rounder going back this year.

13 and steak knives isn't fair at all. Two firsts with our second going back is certainly fair, with both parties feeling like they're playing overs.

On one hand, I was never entirely persuaded by your arguments to trade Gibbs in the first place, so it isn't such a huge step for me to get back on that particular horse, but if a trade does eventuate, it'd better be for what he's worth. 13 and change is not a good trade for us, and it is right that we haven't considered it.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Gibbs is gone. Get used to it.

Retaining him is the dumbest thing we could do. It's utter madness that weakens the rebuild mortally. I'd seriously consider giving the sport away if we were so foolish.

And I don't care if he plays another 6 seasons to 34. I'd rather have picks 5 and 13 at the age of 24 than a 34 year old Gibbs.

This was never on the cards. Never part of their rebuild plans. He had 3 years left and we were honouring that.

This was purely a bonus situation. We were going to trade for Marchbank before this arose. I'm not sure how it affects the intended rebuild adversely.

Man, we turn on our own so fast.

 

[1981]

13 and steak knives isn't fair at all. Two firsts with our second going back is certainly fair, with both parties feeling like they're playing overs.

On one hand, I was never entirely persuaded by your arguments to trade Gibbs in the first place, so it isn't such a huge step for me to get back on that particular horse, but if a trade does eventuate, it'd better be for what he's worth. 13 and change is not a good trade for us, and it is right that we haven't considered it.

But a much younger Mitchell = 14 ???

 

[BlueTongue]

OK, another day of 0 trades done and dusted. I don't think I could face another day of the same old Gibbs trade scenarios being put forth and then re-shuffled.

For the record, I won't be disappointed if we keep Gibbs (I'll be stoked), and surely this would put any future talk of him being traded to bed once and for all.

I certainly hope Gibba has stayed away from reading anything the media have published, or what's been said in these forums, because if his Family Issues are real and a trade is looking unlikely then he's going to be feeling like shit by now.

What I'm sure of, and the more I think of this the more I hope it's coming soon, is that IF SOS was genuinely caught off guard by Adelaide's trade call on Monday, it means the original Deal he had going with GWS certainly didn't rely on Pick #13, and given that Pick #5 was 'Off the table' it means that the 5 for 5 was never going to happen, so if we Keep both pick 5 and Gibbs & Tuohy, and still manage a trade for Marchbank and Pickett, I'll be a happy chappy.

 

[Jeremias]

And I don't care if he plays another 6 seasons to 34. I'd rather have picks 5 and 13 at the age of 24 than a 34 year old Gibbs.

You'd rather have a 24 year old Henry Schade and Matthew Buntine than a 34 year old Gibbs? To the point where you'd "seriously consider giving the sport away" if we didn't?

You really need to relax.

 

[Pafloyul]

Gibbs is gone. Get used to it.

Retaining him is the dumbest thing we could do. It's utter madness that weakens the rebuild mortally. I'd seriously consider giving the sport away if we were so foolish.

And I don't care if he plays another 6 seasons to 34. I'd rather have picks 5 and 13 at the age of 24 than a 34 year old Gibbs.

Yep, another piece of evolution in the draft era is that clubs are beginning to realise that you don't 'sell the farm' for just one player. We should be making a trade that helps us strategically, that's all we should expect.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

But a much younger Mitchell = 14 ???

So the Gibbs trade can only be compared to the Mitchell trade now?

Swans have salary cap issues. Mitchell wanted money and was out of contract. Different circumstances to Gibbs.

 

[Pafloyul]

You'd rather have a 24 year old Henry Schade and Matthew Buntine than a 34 year old Gibbs? To the point where you'd "seriously consider giving the sport away" if we didn't?

You really need to relax.

You really need a course in discernment.

 

[HARKER]

This is a chance to set our club up for a decade. If we blow it again I'll be furious.

Trading one senior player is the only chance we have to set ourselves up, for a decade........and for a pick #13?

Blow it now.........or maybe you already have.

 

[Gethelred]

But a much younger Mitchell = 14 ???

5th mid who's never had to deal with a tag, nor has he had to win games off his own effort. Gibbs has done both of those things at times across his career, and his disposal is significantly better than Mitchell's.

I view trades thus; if I can make an argument why Gibbs is worth two first rounders, based on stats and performances (being the armchair expert I am) then so can SOS, much better than I can. Draft picks are more nebulous than most realise, too; once you get past pick 10, the chances of the player going on to play more than 100 games effectively halve. If we traded Gibbs for 13 and Harry Dear/Lyons/whoever Adelaide decide are surplus, I'd have been hard put to justify such a trade, in the same way I struggled to justify the Liam Jones trade back in the day.

 

[Malifice]

This was never on the cards. Never part of their rebuild plans. He had 3 years left and we were honouring that.

This was purely a bonus situation. We were going to trade for Marchbank before this arose. I'm not sure how it affects the intended rebuild adversely.

Man, we turn on our own so fast.

Fast? It's taken 20 years of Bullshit, mismanagement, draft blunders and mixed messages from the club for me to turn on them.

I bought into the reset and green shoots thing last year. Finally they get it I thought. We're finally going to stop selling the fans crap and get unified.

Well its time for the club to see it out and do it properly. If we go about this half arsed like we gave the last 20 years of steaming crap the club has dished up, they can more or less count me out.

Gibbs wants out. For family reasons. He hold considerable value and we hold all the cards. We're in a reset. The best outcome for the club is trading him and setting the club up for years 2021-2025 when our window opens and GWS is on the wane.

It's harsh but that's just how I feel. I'm pissed off with the constant suggestions the club wants to keep him. Trade week is happening around us and other clubs are getting damn fine deals while we sit on our asses. Pull the God damn trigger, and let's get on with the reset.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You really need a course in discernment.

Is that course run next door to the open-mindedness course? Maybe you guys can car pool?

 

[Jeremias]

You really need a course in discernment.

Cheers. I judged you a while back.

 

[1981]

So the Gibbs trade can only be compared to the Mitchell trade now?

Swans have salary cap issues. Mitchell wanted money and was out of contract. Different circumstances to Gibbs.

Where did I say it can 'only' be compared ?

Merely throwing out a comparison point as food for thought

Gibbs might well be under contract but players who want out usually get out and deep down I suspect Carlton actually want him out and I reckon Adel know this too, so I don't believe we hold all the aces to be honest

 

[BlueTongue]

If I see Bryce Gibbs running around in a Carlton jumper next year after all this my flesh will creep.

Maybe Go buy an Adelaide membership then?

 

[ParapMarkets]

Bryce Gibbs is out the door in 5 years in any event. He ain't gonna be there for 17.

Pick 13 and steak knives = Adelaide 1st this year and next year with 24 going back at them.

It lets us ontrade Adelaides 2017 1st for Marchbank, Stewart and Pickett, and KEEP 5 and 13.

Keep Gibbs and we lose 13 AND 5.

That's 2 less first rounders in the squad once Gibbs retires, and one less even while he is still playing.

We're rebuilding. How some people don't get this is beyond me. It's like we're stuck in some time warp. Gibbs isn't the messiah. Neither is Judd and neither is Murphy. That time has passed. The line is 23 and under and our time won't come when we're competing for top 4 till after 2020 plus.

Understand it. Come to terms with it. Embrace it.

We won't lose 5 and 13 if we don't trade Gibbs. Don't get me wrong, we now need to trade him and I believe we will, but you're exaggerating to suit your argument, if we want to keep pick 5 and trade for Marchbank then we can even without pick 13. It looks like SOS is trying hard to replace Gibbs with a quality midfielder, so even if Gibbs goes we are far from a certainty to even hold on to pick 13.

List management is complicated, we need to be mindful of how our list will cope with departures, especially in this case our midfield. In your opinion, everything is black and white:
If you are over the age of 26 then you are gone, no ifs, no buts, no list analysis required, no thoughts on how the young kids will cope and develop, end of story, if you are over 26 then we can throw you out for whatever we can get because you will be undoubtedly cooked within 5 years.

It's not that simple Mal, you're expecting pick 13 (pick 15 or 16 after academy selections) and some steak knife to be the deciding factor of whether or not we can become a powerhouse again. I'm glad for the balanced analysis of our list by SOS and Bolton, and the fact they seem to be legitimately looking at the option of Gibbs staying will only ensure that we get a very good deal.

 

[1981]

Gibbs is a good player, maybe even very good

But he's no champ

13 + the 2nd rounder sweetener for Lyons is spot on IMO

But 13 is the main element

 

[KohPhi]

If I see Bryce Gibbs running around in a Carlton jumper next year after all this my flesh will creep.

Once he kicks his first goal, all will be forgotten..

 

[2ndeffort]

If Tom Mitchell is essentially worth pick 14 then I think 13 for Gibbs is about right

That would be an uncontracted Tom Mitchell who can walk via the PSD if a deal doesnt get done vs a Bryce Gibbs with 3 years still to run on his contract who has no way to get out for another 3 years if we hold him to his contract. You reckon that they are both worth around the same value to be prised out of a club?

 

[ShanDog]

If I see Bryce Gibbs running around in a Carlton jumper next year after all this my flesh will creep.

I won't be too fussed, although disappointed. But the thing I wonder about is how the club and Bryce will be scrutinised and lambasted in the media as being a shitshow if, after all this, he ends up staying. You can imagine all the big headlines and discussions with Slobbo on AFL360 - "Is there inner turmoil between Gibbs and the Blues?" "Have Carlton recovered from a poor situation only to have egg on their face" etc. It will be tripe, but it will be talked about nonetheless, and despite it ultimately having very little to no bearing on the club internally, it's another thing to shit the fans off with.

Negative comments about Gibbs leaving are easy to smack down - question marks if he says he wants to and doesn't will be a ****ight.

 

[2ndeffort]

So the Gibbs trade can only be compared to the Mitchell trade now?

Swans have salary cap issues. Mitchell wanted money and was out of contract. Different circumstances to Gibbs.

+ Mitchell out of contract and can walk via the PSD in a month's time if no deal is done vs Gibbs who has 3 years left on his contract and no way out if we hold him to his contract.

 

[Carl Tone]

So the Gibbs trade can only be compared to the Mitchell trade now?

Swans have salary cap issues. Mitchell wanted money and was out of contract. Different circumstances to Gibbs.

So your pencil starts off sharp, but gets blunt quickly... and in the end you have to write larger? You'll never get your pen license at that rate.

 

[1981]

That would be an uncontracted Tom Mitchell who can walk via the PSD if a deal doesnt get done vs a Bryce Gibbs with 3 years still to run on his contract who has no way to get out for another 3 years if we hold him to his contract. You reckon that they are both worth around the same value to be prised out of a club?

I've already addressed your query elsewhere

Proof will be in the pudding and I hope we get more than I expect

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Fast? It's taken 20 years of Bullshit, mismanagement, draft blunders and mixed messages from the club for me to turn on them.

Is it Princes Park itself you are upset with? The guernsey? The entity in which multiple people come and go?

Because I'm not really seeing the 20 years of failure from Bolton or Silvagni.

[QuoteI bought into the reset and green shoots thing last year. Finally they get it I thought. We're finally going to stop selling the fans crap and get unified.[/quote]

What is unity though Mal? Is it different for everybody in the sense that we are only unified if everyone agrees with us?

Well its time for the club to see it out and do it properly. If we go about this half arsed like we gave the last 20 years of steaming crap the club has dished up, they can more or less count me out.

Does not trading someone for what you believe is unders constitute the same as the last 20 years of steaming crap?

Gibbs wants out. For family reasons. He hold considerable value and we hold all the cards. We're in a reset. The best outcome for the club is trading him and setting the club up for years 2021-2025 when our window opens and GWS is on the wane.

Isn't the issue what each person considers is considerable value?

It's harsh but that's just how I feel. I'm pissed off with the constant suggestions the club wants to keep him. Trade week is happening around us and other clubs are getting damn fine deals while we sit on our asses. Pull the God damn trigger, and let's get on with the reset.

Pull the trigger but on whose value system?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So your pencil starts off sharp, but gets blunt quickly... and in the end you have to write larger? You'll never get your pen license at that rate.

My phone does it. No idea why.

Doesn't show when I post it, only when quoted.