Bryce Gibbs staying at Carlton - Silvagni in the no blinking zone

[Malifice]

We won't lose 5 and 13 if we don't trade Gibbs. Don't get me wrong, we now need to trade him and I believe we will, but you're exaggerating to suit your argument, if we want to keep pick 5 and trade for Marchbank then we can even without pick 13. It looks like SOS is trying hard to replace Gibbs with a quality midfielder, so even if Gibbs goes we are far from a certainty to even hold on to pick 13.

List management is complicated, we need to be mindful of how our list will cope with departures, especially in this case our midfield. In your opinion, everything is black and white:
If you are over the age of 26 then you are gone, no ifs, no buts, no list analysis required, no thoughts on how the young kids will cope and develop, end of story, if you are over 26 then we can throw you out for whatever we can get because you will be undoubtedly cooked within 5 years.

It's not that simple Mal, you're expecting pick 13 (pick 15 or 16 after academy selections) and some steak knife to be the deciding factor of whether or not we can become a powerhouse again. I'm glad for the balanced analysis of our list by SOS and Bolton, and the fact they seem to be legitimately looking at the option of Gibbs staying will only ensure that we get a very good deal.

We won't lose 5 and 13 if we don't trade Gibbs. Don't get me wrong, we now need to trade him and I believe we will, but you're exaggerating to suit your argument, if we want to keep pick 5 and trade for Marchbank then we can even without pick 13. It looks like SOS is trying hard to replace Gibbs with a quality midfielder, so even if Gibbs goes we are far from a certainty to even hold on to pick 13.

It is that simple.

At present we hold 5, 24 and 42.

We need to trade to get in Marchbank and Pickett. The current suggestion is 5 for 15 Mbank and Pickett.

Meaning (no gibbs trade) we hit the draft with 15, 24 and 42.

Trading Gibbs for a 2nd rounder and 13 gives us 5, 13, 23, 24, 42. We now have the currency to trade 23 and 24 for (another late 1st) for Marchbank and pickett and keep 5 and 13.

 

[Smegger]

Once he kicks his first goal, all will be forgotten..

It's gonna take more than that!.....maybe 3?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Gibbs might well be under contract but players who want out usually get out and deep down I suspect Carlton actually want him out and I reckon Adel know this too, so I don't believe we hold all the aces to be honest

Carlton's anger and refusing to negotiate would suggest they don't want them out. I thought SOS would have been in it up to his armpits but maybe not.

 

[ParapMarkets]

It is that simple.

At present we hold 5, 24 and 42.

We need to trade to get in Marchbank and Pickett. The current suggestion is 5 for 15 Mbank and Pickett.

Meaning (no gibbs trade) we hit the draft with 15, 24 and 42.

Trading Gibbs for a 2nd rounder and 13 gives us 5, 13, 23, 24, 42. We now have the currency to trade 23 and 24 for (another late 1st) for Marchbank and pickett and keep 5 and 13.

It's not that simple, we have other assets we can use without pick 5 if we want (including next years second round pick). As for the "current suggestion" there have been many.

 

[95bluemember]

People saying Gibbs will still be with us next year is crazy, SOS and McKay are pissed and want to see Gibbs gone.
But SOS knows one thing , the crows want Gibbs even more than we want him gone.
Adelaide is a buzz with Gibbs talk , the longer SOS waits the more they crumble.
Just look at the Gibbs board on the crows forum.
It's the biggest thing to happen in Adelaide since they evolved from apes.

 

[Love the Drake]

Surely, if Gibbs really wants to return to SA for family reasons, we can get Port Power involved. Let the bidding commence..

I'm happy for SOS to play hardball on this one. Don't care how long it takes because we are not desperate to get this deal done; Adelaide are.

They have to pay overs to get him because of his contract. SOS will get us 13 and a young, quality player or high draft pick (teens). Mark my words..

 

[Gethelred]

Where did I say it can 'only' be compared ?

Merely throwing out a comparison point as food for thought

Gibbs might well be under contract but players who want out usually get out and deep down I suspect Carlton actually want him out and I reckon Adel know this too, so I don't believe we hold all the aces to be honest

Why? Not being facetious, just interested as to why you think this.

 

[JustaBattler]

Everyone wants the bakers to bake - until it comes to baking time.
Everyone wants the Club to be run professionally and to a plan for the long term - until three days into trade weeks..
My my people arwe even quesitoning SOS being in Perth ( if he is) ....


I have no dounbt that smelly half stepper has upset some planning Bwyce all he needed to do was add mounting depression to family needs and he woudl be a victim.


SOS and Bolton have had ZERO warning to plan for this - and Adelaide have offered NOTHING concrete- except to say Gibbsy's missus want to come here and none of our players want to go to Carlton.

hilarious.

 

[Malifice]

Is it Princes Park itself you are upset with? The guernsey? The entity in which multiple people come and go?

Because I'm not really seeing the 20 years of failure from Bolton or Silvagni.

On the clubs.

If I had my money invested with a brokerage firm and kept getting shitty results despite managers changing and promises of doing things differently then I'd switch firms.

Are they really doing things differently this time or has the circus just changed tents?

In saying this, I'm hopeful they're finally going about it the right way. I'm probably so dark at present because I'm getting that old feeling that they're pissing on my back and telling me it's raining

Pull the trigger but on whose value system?

On the value system the club has been selling me for 12 months now. We're in a reset at the 23 year old and younger line. A 27 year old contracted player with currency had put his hand up to be traded to a club on the cusp of flag contention. We hold all the cards.

Yet I'm hearing that this both A - caught the club by surprise, and B - We're trying to convince him to stay?

It's a strong indiciation of either more incompetence by the club, or more mixed signals. Either way it's seriously pissing me off.

In the words of that Disney Ice Witch Elsa - Let him go.

I'm buggered to know what leadership or influence a disgruntled 28 year old player is going to have coming into work each day with his missus on his back. He's definitely leaving in 3 years time in any event, when 31 and uncontracted. We can't hold him to contract then and his value will be Nada.

I mean this is madness. The best interest of the club to obtain flag 17 sometime in the next decade is trading him. We'll go backwards next year and the year after but so bloody what? We're still rebuilding over those years anyway. I'm not expecting anything much till 2020 onwards.

Get more talented kids in the door, and get the older blokes that would prefer to be elsewhere wherever they want to go.

 

[Stamos]

Bryce Gibbs is out the door in 5 years in any event. He ain't gonna be there for 17.

Pick 13 and steak knives = Adelaide 1st this year and next year with 24 going back at them.

It lets us ontrade Adelaides 2017 1st for Marchbank, Stewart and Pickett, and KEEP 5 and 13.

Keep Gibbs and we lose 13 AND 5.

That's 2 less first rounders in the squad once Gibbs retires, and one less even while he is still playing.

We're rebuilding. How some people don't get this is beyond me. It's like we're stuck in some time warp. Gibbs isn't the messiah. Neither is Judd and neither is Murphy. That time has passed. The line is 23 and under and our time won't come when we're competing for top 4 till after 2020 plus.

Understand it. Come to terms with it. Embrace it.

I suppose we have pretty different ideas of a rebuild.
You want to go full Melbourne, I think getting massacred for the next couple of years and Cripps getting smashed won't help our rebuild at all. If we're properly compensated, then by all means, but a late first rounder and a pick upgrade is not being properly compensated.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We need to maintain a solid senior core. Simpson isn't enough. Murphy injured a lot. Kreuzer quiet. Rowe?, Armfield?

Slim pickings at the top end. Senior core is vital to bring on the next generation.

 

[Navara79]

3 days into trade period with another week to go. The Gibbs deal will get done in and we will get what we want. Relax

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Gibbs is gone. Get used to it.

Retaining him is the dumbest thing we could do. It's utter madness that weakens the rebuild mortally. I'd seriously consider giving the sport away if we were so foolish.

And I don't care if he plays another 6 seasons to 34. I'd rather have picks 5 and 13 at the age of 24 than a 34 year old Gibbs.

This is the most logical way of looking at it.

He'll decline too. Every player does. They talk about him playing at the same level at 34 as in his prime. Its ridiculous.

But we are the ones holding the upper hand in the trade. We will push the Crows as much as we can before we pull the trigger on any deal.

imo, we need to get more back than #13. We need to get their 2017 1st as well even if it means throwing in #25.

They might think they'll finish higher next year, but I doubt it. I don't think Betts will have the same year and there's every chance it ends up being 2 pick #13's for Gibbs and #25. Good deal if you ask me.

We then have options. We can either keep the known commodity of #13 this year and trade that 2017 Crows 1st for Marchbank and co OR we trade #13 for them and head into next year's draft with 2 first round picks. Not to mention, we will most likely trade our 2018 1st for an additional top 10 pick next year and we could pick up 3 young guns in the 2017 draft.

That, along with #5 from this year and Marchbank. I think that's a pretty good outcome.

So yeah, it will really work in our favour IF we get that additional 1st round pick for 2017.

 

[Malifice]

I suppose we have pretty different ideas of a rebuild.
You want to go full Melbourne, I think getting massacred for the next couple of years and Cripps getting smashed won't help our rebuild at all. If we're properly compensated, then by all means, but a late first rounder and a pick upgrade is not being properly compensated.

Losing Gibbs is not 'Full Melbourne'. We'll be no worse off next year than we were last year - we lose Gibbs but get Murphy back so it's a wash. We also grab 2 early 1st rounders as well.

I can't see how losing Gibbs suddenly turns us into a Melbourne-esque rabble next year.

We'll finish bottom 3. Guess what? That was gonna happen anyway.

 

[Stamos]

We also grab 2 early 1st rounders as well.

How do you figure?

 

[juzza316]

Would not be happy if Gibbs ends up staying. I dont think it would be good for the culture. The clubs percieved anger is nothing but a charade in my opinion.

 

[Malifice]

It's not that simple, we have other assets we can use without pick 5 if we want (including next years second round pick). As for the "current suggestion" there have been many.

Next year's second round pick is pick 20 next year. In what is shaping to be a very good draft.

How about we keep it, also grab ourselves Ainsworth or Venebles instead this year, and trade out the 28 year old dude who doesn't want to be at our club anymore and probably leaves in 3 years anyway?

This is mad crazy loyalty to the bloke that was sitting down with the captain of Adelaide a week ago and orchestrating a move out of the club at the 11th hour while contracted.

Great influence to have at the club.

 

[TerryWallet]

3 days into trade period with another week to go. The Gibbs deal will get done in and we will get what we want. Relax

Correct Nav.

Tex Walker has committed to Bryce to get it done. Next day Bryce nominated.

It will be done.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

This was never on the cards. Never part of their rebuild plans. He had 3 years left and we were honouring that.

This was purely a bonus situation. We were going to trade for Marchbank before this arose. I'm not sure how it affects the intended rebuild adversely.

Man, we turn on our own so fast.

Gibbs turned on us. As you said, it wasn't on the cards.

He told the others to stick through and stay with the club and now only 2 years in to a 5 year deal he wants to leave.

I don't see how the other players will take him seriously from now on anyway. Practice what you preach or lose credibility.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You'd rather have a 24 year old Henry Schade and Matthew Buntine than a 34 year old Gibbs? To the point where you'd "seriously consider giving the sport away" if we didn't?

You really need to relax.

That's a bad way to put it. Pendlebury went at #5 and Cripps at #13. Would you rather have those 2 at 24 or Gibbs at 34? I'd rather have only one of them at 24 tbh.

 

[Malifice]

How do you figure?

I've been over this dozens of times.

Let's assume pick 22 for Tuohy. It has no bearing on the rest. We need to get in Marchbank and Pickett. The current mooted deal is 5 for them and 15. Let's assume GWS would also accept a pick in the loe teens.

We currently hold 5, 22, 24, 42.

No gibbs trade and we take 15, 22, 24 and 42 to the draft. Get Mbank and Pickett.

Assume we trade Gibbs for 13 and 26 (second rounder Adelaide obtain for Lyons as steak knives). We now hold 5, 13, 21, 22, 26. We ontrade 22 and 26 to a club for a pick in the teens. We ontrade that for the GWS boys.

Gibbs trade lets us take 5, 13, 21, 42 to the draft. Also get Mbank and Pickett.

 

[TheCoach16]

Crossed my mind too Coach but wasn't sure how to put it.

You couldn't have put it any worse than me Smegger, but I think everyone understood...

 

[DIG]

He's definitely leaving in 3 years time in any event, when 31 and uncontracted. We can't hold him to contract then and his value will be Nada.

Not Nada.

Knowing the AFL, they will keep the current or very similar stupid FA compensation system in place anyway. They're too worried about the weaker/unappealing clubs getting reamed.

...in which case we'd get at least a second round pick for him anyway if he left as a FA.

Less than we would get today of course, but he won't walk for nothing in 3 years. People keep overlooking this.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Gibbs turned on us. As you said, it wasn't on the cards.

He told the others to stick through and stay with the club and now only 2 years in to a 5 year deal he wants to leave.

I don't see how the other players will take him seriously from now on anyway. Practice what you preach or lose credibility.

Little dramatic. He has a family situation and he has asked if we can work something out. Not sure that means he has turned on us. Haven't heard any ultimatums.

 

[ParapMarkets]

But a much younger Mitchell = 14 ???

It seems every man and his dog is going to bring up the Mitchell trade to assess a players worth. Swans got in early to take the best trade asset Hawthorn have before the O'Meara trade.