Society/Culture Can a purely socialist society exist?

[barreness]

would you prefer to risk 100% of capital, have zero competency management, cost plus contracts etc all for the potential of 100% of the profit or loss?

Pretty sure the govt can run a mine. Why would they not simply employ the same people on a similar pay packet and put the profits back into the govt coffers

or risk no capital and get 50 to 85% of the profit risk free?

I mean this would be a reasonable outcome but I'm not seeing it. Royalties are tiny and most of the big ones pay minimal company tax(most of the time)

 

[Power Raid]

Pretty sure the govt can run a mine. Why would they not simply employ the same people on a similar pay packet and put the profits back into the govt coffers

I mean this would be a reasonable outcome but I'm not seeing it. Royalties are tiny and most of the big ones pay minimal company tax(most of the time)

If you look at Kazakhstan and Russia you'd suggest otherwise

but yes I agree we should tax mining better by increasing royalties, focusing on the low risk mining assets such as coal, iron ore and gas

 

[Seeds]

Why?

Most exploration is govt funded, especially in the early stages and then subsidised later

This is the most incorrect take I've heard from you, they are the ones with incentives to do so; jobs, royalties, industry, taxes

Leadership incentives tend to be short term. In both democracies and party based socialism. Ironically dictatorships with leaders for life are the exception here but those have so many other economic problems it's not even worth considering.

Investing resources on things that may fail (risk) and at best not provide any benefits to well into the future past a leaders date often provides little incentives for leaders to properly undertake exploration. There are likely exceptions. But not a lot.

Ps. Why do jobs and taxes matter in a socialist society? Everyone already works and there are no taxes. And by royalties I'm assuming you mean revenue since the socialist government owns the future mines .

 

[Power Raid]

Why?

Most exploration is govt funded, especially in the early stages and then subsidised later

This is the most incorrect take I've heard from you, they are the ones with incentives to do so; jobs, royalties, industry, taxes

The exploration incentive scheme is $7.5M, with exploration investment by private enterprise in WA being $2.6B. that's not quite "most exploration is govt funded" is it?

 

[kranky al]

Social ownership of the means of production (as opposed to private ownership).

Land, Labour and Capital (including capital goods, and infrastructure) are now owned by the State. Banks, finance, stock markets etc cease to exist.

In Scandinavia all of those things are in private hands. Calling the Danes, Norwegians and Swedes 'Socialist' is a furphy that really needs to stop.

That be communism brosef

 

[kranky al]

A purely socialist society has no means to allocate resources. You take away the price system then resource allocation collapses and thus so does the system. How long this takes depends on how long the leaders are willing/able to hold guns to everyone heads.

Socialism and communism are two different ideologies that have similarities in their practices. Communism eliminates private property in the hopes of creating equality. Socialism seeks greater equality by creating more equal distribution of wealth.

 

[kranky al]

This is completely illogical to me. I cant reason with it. It appears to be nonsense. Can only provide a couple of comments.

Jails existed before capitalism. They arent a capitalist construct and they tend to be employed in much greater use in non capitalist societies.

Capitalism isnt national. Its international. Anti capitalist policies constrain capitalism to be national.

The housing crisis and social equities that result isnt a function of capitalism. Its a function of dumb govt policies constraining land. Nothing about capitalism advocates for resources to be constrained.

How did you end your post advocating for a system that inevitably leads to stalinism? Within the first 6 months the bolsheviks rejected marxism because lenin realised it was impossible to implement. Thus they had to change path which could only be sustained with the gun.

Reducing inequality involves redistribution of unearned wealth (inheritance, capital gains obtained through luck etc) and free high quality education. Not eliminating the price system and taking choice away from the people.

While the United States represented about 4.2 percent of the world's population in 2020, it housed around 20 percent of the world's prisoners.

You were rambling something about “They arent a capitalist construct and they tend to be employed in much greater use in non capitalist societies.”

 

[barreness]

If you look at Kazakhstan and Russia you'd suggest otherwise

Are we talking now or under the Soviet Union? Russia is currently a major producer of a whole bunch of minerals, Gazprom pumps out a shitload of gas by any standard. There are many privately owned companies and also some state ones

but yes I agree we should tax mining better by increasing royalties, focusing on the low risk mining assets such as coal, iron ore and gas

Cool

 

[barreness]

Leadership incentives tend to be short term. In both democracies and party based socialism. Ironically dictatorships with leaders for life are the exception here but those have so many other economic problems it's not even worth considering.

So quarterly profits aren't a major driver in private companies?

Investing resources on things that may fail (risk) and at best not provide any benefits to well into the future past a leaders date often provides little incentives for leaders to properly undertake exploration. There are likely exceptions. But not a lot.

I'll just leave these here for you

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Geological_Survey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoscience_Australia
AGSO's predecessor organisation the Bureau of Mineral Resources, Geology and Geophysics[5] (BMR) was established in 1946; with the name changing to AGSO in 1992.

The BMR was a geological survey with the main objective was the systematic geological and geophysical mapping of the continent as the basis for informed mineral exploration.

Ps. Why do jobs and taxes matter in a socialist society? Everyone already works and there are no taxes. And by royalties I'm assuming you mean revenue since the socialist government owns the future mines .

Lol. That's not how it works in any real world example, I thought we were supposed to be the utopians

 

[barreness]

The exploration incentive scheme is $7.5M, with exploration investment by private enterprise in WA being $2.6B. that's not quite "most exploration is govt funded" is it?

The ground work was done by govts. Who mapped the sea floor for the north west shelf for instance? Yes now companies have proven profits they are willing to further expand and as you note it's still subsidised(let's not forget the tax cuts)