Can Chris Dawes keep it up?

[mdc]

Even if it's uncontested it means they can peal off their player or push up the ground.

Doesn't a possession tell us exactly the same thing? They have to have gotten the ball somehow.

Marking is an extremely important thing for a KPFs as it usually means shots on goal or assists.

It usually means disposal is under less pressure I guess, but I don't agree with your assertion at all. As a quick example, I added up the numbers from the pairs of games that Vincenzo listed for Cloke (6 combined games), and we get:

63 marks, 42 Inside 50's...yet only 12 goals and just 3 goal assists.

 

[shawthing09]

I disagree with that, marking tells a lot about a KPF. Even if it's uncontested it means they can peal off their player or push up the ground. Marking is an extremely important thing for a KPFs as it usually means shots on goal or assists. In saying that, looking at stats and using that as the sole way to judge a player/game is wrong because they don't tell you the whole picture like opponents, weather, umpiring, coaching styles, player fitness, anything along those lines.

It's an interesting one. I tend to feel this way too, and I am sure with most fowards it is the case.

If you were talking about midfielders MDC I'd be more willing to buy the argument that marks are largely a useless stat, with midfielders what matters is that they got the ball. With fowards I generally think (or would have generally thought) marks are a more telling stat because unlike midfielders a fowards defender will usually play closer attention to him to stop him taking the mark. Therefore for a foward to take an uncontested mark it generally means they found space on their direct opponent and contested marks obviously tell a huge story.

The thing is Dawes in the last two weeks has shown even when he drops the mark he can have an impact in general play and if he keeps that up in many ways it becomes like midfielders who cares how he gets the ball just that he gets it and uses it well. Most fowards need to take a lot of marks and that results in goal and goal assits but Dawes has been getting goal assists with handballs out of general play.

 

[Pie eyed]

Surely some subjectivity is needed? If I think I am very good at something and then come up against better competition it's going to be pretty hard to admitt that maybe I wasn't as good as I thought is it not? In most cases it would be easy to find another reason for me not being as performing to my own expectations.

I think he came out, in a pre-game interview and publicly stated he would be too physically dominant for a particular backman, and was.

I think he has an ability to asses his own form, is confident enough to state it and in most cases has been accurate.

That's not to say he will always be right but it's a refreshing trait.

The proof of the pudding will be in exactly how much his overhead marking does improve, and really so long as it does, the reason for said improvement is moot.

 

[Ed D]

Doesn't a possession tell us exactly the same thing? They have to have gotten the ball somehow.

Not to me. A player getting a scrappy quick handball off the ground or a quick kick around the body is different to a clear possession going into the forward 50 or a set shot on goal. Plus forwards nearly always have a defender hanging off them so if a forward gets a mark it's a 1 up on their opponent.

It usually means disposal is under less pressure I guess, but I don't agree with your assertion at all. As a quick example, I added up the numbers from the pairs of games that Vincenzo listed for Cloke (6 combined games), and we get:

63 marks, 42 Inside 50's...yet only 12 goals and just 3 goal assists.

Like I said, stats don't tell the whole picture and you can't use raw stats by themselves. Cloke's problem isn't his marking (that's one of his strongest part of his game) his problem is his kicking and long bombs. But my point is, marks as a stat for a forward are just as important as any other stat.