Opinion Can't kick, can't play football

[TeeKray]

That's actually been phased out. Many coaches these days will focus on developing the dominant side as a real weapon, and ensuring the player has the skill to execute on that foot at all times.

In other words the best practice these days is:

Dominant side - 95%
Non Dominant side - 50%

rather than

Dominant side - 80%
Non Dominant side - 65%

Think of all the really elite kicks - Suckling, Polec, Murphy ... most of the time they kick a dinky inside out kick on their preferred rather than risk kicking on their non preferred.

And yet I saw Wingard at training last Friday shredding half a dozen shots on his right straight through the middle no problem. The very best players can kick on both sides. If you can't, you are a limited player.

 

[KenOath]

I think the biggest issues with our skills comes back to the complacency that began to filter through this group in mid 2014. While our skills weren't great at that stage they were good enough (far better than now) and more importantly they stood up under pressure and at crucial times!

This complacency in my view led to a drop in standards, which led to a drop in skills, which led to a drop in confidence across the group as a whole. A lot of things have gone wrong since mid 2014, but for me it was the complacency that set in that triggered our decline and is the reason why there is no quick fix. We're simply not good enough to play below 100% and get results, but far too often the players only want to put in the bare minimum effort to get the result, which is why we perform so poorly against bad sides. Unfortunately every now and then it clicks and their complacent attitude is reinforced.

 

[PortWTF]

Think of all the really elite kicks - Suckling, Polec, Murphy ... most of the time they kick a dinky inside out kick on their preferred rather than risk kicking on their non preferred.

There are still some outliers like Sam Mitchell and Bernie Vince, but you are right in general the players we think of as elite kicks only kick on their dominant side. I can't remember if it was always that way. Darren Jarman was unbelievable, and as a kid I practiced for hours kicking both sides as my old man said you'll never be as good as Russell Ebert by only kicking on one leg.

 

[ash_78]

Some fantastic points in this thread.

I think there are so many factors in our recent downfall - it's pure hypothesising to truly unpick and understand the relationships between our current issues, and the impact that fixing a specific area such as kicking would have on others. But I agree with REH that we're going nowhere long term without fundamental skills improving. As TeeKray also mentioned, we also need some luck with injuries.

Ken seemed to have the right idea when he joined - systemic and hollistic improvement of the club across all areas. That included recruiting, player development, fitness, skills, psychological management, player welfare, sponsorship, crowds, marketing, hell - even leaving dunny paper in the shitter for the next bloke (for anyone who has heard that story)!!

4 years on, where is the evidence of it? It seemed to improve for 2 years. Since then, only off-field matters have moved forward.

Every aspect of the footy dept has gone backwards, bar none.

We are on the same obvious trajectory back to mediocrity that we were 7-8 years ago.

 

[OneGreatClub]

Some fantastic points in this thread.

I think there are so many factors in our recent downfall - it's pure hypothesising to truly unpick and understand the relationships between our current issues, and the impact that fixing a specific area such as kicking would have on others. But I agree with REH that we're going nowhere long term without fundamental skills improving. As TeeKray also mentioned, we also need some luck with injuries.

Ken seemed to have the right idea when he joined - systemic and hollistic improvement of the club across all areas. That included recruiting, player development, fitness, skills, psychological management, player welfare, sponsorship, crowds, marketing, hell - even leaving dunny paper in the shitter for the next bloke (for anyone who has heard that story)!!

4 years on, where is the evidence of it? It seemed to improve for 2 years. Since then, only off-field matters have moved forward.

Every aspect of the footy dept has gone backwards, bar none.

We are on the same obvious trajectory back to mediocrity that we were 7-8 years ago.

Puzzling to be sure

 

[ScooterBrother]

And yet I saw Wingard at training last Friday shredding half a dozen shots on his right straight through the middle no problem. The very best players can kick on both sides. If you can't, you are a limited player.

There would be a litany of All Australians and club champions that are one sided players. Wingard being one of them! He has on ok right footed snap but he is poor on his right to the point that he will baulk and baulk again to get onto his left.

That is what is taught these days - train your preferred leg into a real weapon and get onto it, rather than train up your non prefered to be ok-ish and risk it.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Champion_Data is there any chance you can supply the game day kicking efficiency stats for Port v their opponent going back to round 1 2013 ie 84 games? If so thanks in advance. If not, is there anywhere I can go to, to find that data?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Kenny agreeing with me in today's 'Tsier about our poor kicking.



and the left hand side of this article had this graphic

 

[raptalia]

There is more to it than just kicking. In 2014 this side with at least 80% of the same personnel was on top of their game and there was no suggestion about poor kicking. Poor kicking is there for sure but it goes much deeper than that. Poor decision making, poor work rate and a below average game strategy also deserve a mention.

The fact that our disposal efficiency was improving but lapsed against Freo says a lot about our biggest problem- inconsistency of effort. We have players who gather 22 possessions in a single game then proceed to get 15 touches in the next two games. I will not mention the player but there are those on this site who believe this player is 'coming along nicely'.

But hey, our players are all working hard at becoming elite kicks so there is not too much to worry about according to Ken the positive spin doctor.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

There is more to it than just kicking. In 2014 this side with at least 80% of the same personnel was on top of their game and there was no suggestion about poor kicking. Poor kicking is there for sure but it goes much deeper than that. Poor decision making, poor work rate and a below average game strategy also deserve a mention.

But hey, our players are all working hard at becoming elite kicks so there is not too much to worry about according to Ken the positive spin doctor.

It doesn't matter how much else there is. we wont go anywhere when we regularly produce games with 51-55% kicking efficiency.

Nobody i know when they check out a house says - oh look at those great foundations. they are sexy. but without those strong foundations the house wont stay up when it gets a bit of a shake or a decent wind put up it.

 

[raptalia]

In 2014 we were not complaining about poor kicking. It all matters, dumb football is dumb football no matter how well you kick.

 

[PAFC66]

In 2014 we were not complaining about poor kicking. It all matters, dumb football is dumb football no matter how well you kick.

It was all gameplan though.. the old green play football .. everything came off.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

In 2014 we were not complaining about poor kicking. It all matters, dumb football is dumb football no matter how well you kick.

You might not have been. I did.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Reckon conditions suited our bash through kick n' hope forward entry style tonight lol still alot of work to do.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Amazing what happens when you kick well.

7.0 in the pouring rain in the 2nd quarter makes a big difference compared to 3.4 or 2.5 and going in at half time with scores near equal instead of a 4 goal buffer, which should have been 5 if we didn't go to sleep with about 2 minutes left.

With a greasy ball in the wet we were more efficient than on a few dry days this year. Is it the only reason why we won? No, but it bloody helped!!

 

[mic59]

We had an advantage of 16 with inside 50s. I would like to see something that shows how many of those inside 50s were times that someone had the ball free and put it directly to a Tiger player. There were a few I saw to the Northern end, and they were not quick snaps out of a pack but a player who had the opportunity to pick a target, and there were at least two I saw in the third quarter to the Riverbank end where the ball was hoisted to no-one but a Richmond defender running back to take an easy mark. Halfway through the last quarter we were pretty safe but we should really have been nine or ten goals up if we had been a bit more efficient going inside 50.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

These Champion Data figures are from page 36 of last Friday night's AFL Record. I cut out lots of info to look mainly at Kicking and Disposal Efficiency.

I don't know why, but every week there is some error in at least 1 of the AFL Average figures re the %. This week its the disposal efficiency % for mids, forwards and defenders. I reckon its a deliberate thing by CD as the same happened in the Richmond stats and they like us have 32.5%, 59.7% and 58.0% AFL averages respectively, which I know is BS as currently the AFL average is 73.3% across all players and all clubs and ranges from 75.0% for St Kilda in 1st place, and us 17th at 70.8% and Sydney 70.3% at 18th. See the AFL stats page and manipulate the data.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats

These figures highlight very nicely why we have to get Polec physically right, mentally right, get him running both ways and defending and getting him kicking the ball at least 15 times a game and close to 20.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

More reason why getting kicking correctly is bloody important. Its as little as 1 or 2 extra efficient kicks a quarter being the difference between a loss and a win.

So far everyone has played 14 games ie 126 games.
* 22 games have been won by 12 points or less, ie 18 by single digits, 3 by 10 points and 1 by 12.

* 41 games have been won by 24 points or less ie 1 goal extra than your opponent per quarter and that's only 1 or 2 efficent kicks difference.
* 50 games have been won by 29 points of less.

At the top end professional level its always a small margin, or as coach Al Pachino said in Any Given Sunday, its a matter of inches, and we should be fighting with our lives for those inches.

 

[PAFC04]

If i was recruiter, my requirements is not only to kick accurately, but to do it with both feet, and if they can do it equally on both sides and you can't distinguish which is the preferred kicking foot... then your in. not unless your a ruckmen, you can be forgiven.

If you can kick with both sides, decision making becomes easier.

 

[Rankor]

If i was recruiter, my requirements is not only to kick accurately, but to do it with both feet, and if they can do it equally on both sides and you can't distinguish which is the preferred kicking foot... then your in. not unless your a ruckmen, you can be forgiven.

If you can kick with both sides, decision making becomes easier.

Then if you add the ability to also kick well under pressure then you have a star player. And a top 5 pick.

 

[PAFC04]

Then if you add the ability to also kick well under pressure then you have a star player. And a top 5 pick.

Yes and No..... you have half a star, the rest is above the head which is the hardest part to get right.

DBJ kicks both left and right, right is his prefered i think, but he does kick with the left just as well. So can Broadbent (RH) and Wingard (LH), you can add Polec (LH) and Impey (RH) to that repertoire of players.

Wingard at pick 3 is an exception.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Anybody still think we are not, overall, a very poor kicking team? I lost count the number of times players burnt the ball, seems we arent even able to kick to advantage, let alone hit a player. Half the problem is that there is often not a clear option which points to a structural/game plan issue

 

[Steve Dore]

Our kicking last night was woeful. Made to look even worse by the fact that Hawthorn's skills are so good.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

Elite legs only at the draft this year thanks we just can't draft anyone with dodgy foot skills regardless of other abilities *It's best available player with foot skills* Hawthorn have been doing it for years.

Glad we snagged Bonner last year

 

[Magus]

I get that our skills aren't up to scratch and we'll miss targets by a few metres or more.

What I'll never understand is picking out an opposing player all on their own and hitting them lace out on the chest. How does this even happen?