Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 3

[Yubby]

Although some may disagree with the suggestions made in this article, personally, i'm OK with them and would rather try these changes than continue as is. Definitely worrying that the opposition coach recognises how to play against us so easily. Reckon the cats early last year demonstrated how effective this is against us and many others caught on.

 

[gbatman]

The article mentions Lord playing a pressure forward role. I'd be ok with this.

 

[Arr0w]

The article mentions Lord playing a pressure forward role. I'd be ok with this.

None of our mids are equipped to play sustained minutes at HF

 

[RPCB]

Jeez the Blue Abroad show is grim tonight. Basically writing off the season (and the entire group for Paolo). I’m a massive fan of both of them, but far out they’ve gone off the deep end tonight. Who would’ve thought BigFooty would be the more measured forum for Carlton talk?

All Carlton criticism on the internet should be posted on the TalkingCarlton forum. No one will be able to read any of it without getting a massive migraine.

 

[gbatman]

None of our mids are equipped to play sustained minutes at HF

I'd having him play deeper, forward pocket where Fogarty plays.

Afterall. Fogarty and Cottrell are failed midfielders we repurposed as forwards and remain there because our recruiting has been poor and they have not been pushed out like they should have by now.

You would think that a non-failed midfielder would be a better option. Lord is a better general footballer than either and has a decent tank.

You can't be rejecting the idea when you have a group of small forwards getting 7, 10, 10, 11 and 12 possessions laying hardly any tackles and kicking 1-0 goals when the team had 65 inside 50s.

Our small forwards are garbage and ANYONE is a better option. We need to start trying anyone. The ones we have been going with seriously are not AFL standard, not even close.

 

[Arr0w]

I'd having him play deeper, forward pocket where Fogarty plays.

Afterall. Fogarty and Cottrell are failed midfielders we repurposed as forwards and remain there because our recruiting has been poor and they have not been pushed out like they should have by now.

You would think that a non-failed midfielder would be a better option. Lord is a better general footballer than either and has a decent tank.

You can't be rejecting the idea when you have a group of small forwards getting 7, 10, 10, 11 and 12 possessions laying hardly any tackles and kicking 1-0 goals when the team had 65 inside 50s.

Our small forwards are garbage and ANYONE is a better option. We need to start trying anyone. The ones we have been going with seriously are not AFL standard, not even close.

We start playing any mid for large periods forward and we are setting them up to fail, as well of even more criticism that Voss can't coach

Mentioned Williams forward for a while and he adds something we lack, but he is also conditional

I'd welcome Boyd being pushed forward but I'd replace Ollie for him at HB

 

[gbatman]

We start playing any mid for large periods forward and we are setting them up to fail, as well of even more criticism that Voss can't coach

Mentioned Williams forward for a while and he adds something we lack, but he is also conditional

I'd welcome Boyd being pushed forward but I'd replace Ollie for him at HB

We have been playing Fogarty and Cottrell forward for years... and yeah I guess we have been failing. Why keep doing it?

I'd be ok with Boyd going forward. Has nice skills, pace and has a real crack in the contest.

In the VFL next week I'd be playing Boyd and Wilson at half forward, just to see how they go and if anything is there.

We are desperate, we need to make some changes.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

We have been playing Fogarty and Cottrell forward for years... and yeah I guess we have been failing. Why keep doing it?

I'd be ok with Boyd going forward. Has nice skills, pace and has a real crack in the contest.

In the VFL next week I'd be playing Boyd and Wilson at half forward, just to see how they go and if anything is there.

We are desperate, we need to make some changes.

And while we’re at it, rotate them both through the midfield

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I'd having him play deeper, forward pocket where Fogarty plays.

Afterall. Fogarty and Cottrell are failed midfielders we repurposed as forwards and remain there because our recruiting has been poor and they have not been pushed out like they should have by now.

You would think that a non-failed midfielder would be a better option. Lord is a better general footballer than either and has a decent tank.

You can't be rejecting the idea when you have a group of small forwards getting 7, 10, 10, 11 and 12 possessions laying hardly any tackles and kicking 1-0 goals when the team had 65 inside 50s.

Our small forwards are garbage and ANYONE is a better option. We need to start trying anyone. The ones we have been going with seriously are not AFL standard, not even close.

Toby Greene was a midfielder. Worth a shot. Those guys who know how to find the ball but maybe aren't quite 'right' for the midfield mix would be a good shout to trial up forward. They basically just redefined toby Greene's 'allowed running areas' while he learnt and he still collected the pill, takcled and put his head over it like a midfielder and the rest flourished after a very short while.

As a midfielder he'd get 34 and give it away 31 times.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I heard that interview & listening to him a by he's such a good communicator...gets the message across

All I know is if we're resetting the coaching panel at years end and Longmuir is sacked from Freo I'd want either him or Leppitsch as backline coaches. Every defense those two have operated have been top shelf regardless of the cattle. Longmuir had Tom Langdon looking like prime Alex Rance when he was assistant for the Pies in 2018.

Leppitsch somehow made Nathan Murphy and Darcy Moore one of the most impenetrable backlines going around too.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Over recent history, the club’s lost its way…

Boards focus has been on off-field causes and how the clubs brand looks…

We need leaders, that have a focus on what Carlton is at its heart. A football club that has a proud successful history on winning and performing on field, with passionate supporters that love the club…

We need a clean out from the board to the playing list…

 

[Blue Pulse]

Over recent history, the club’s lost its way…

Boards focus has been on off-field causes and how the clubs brand looks…

We need leaders, that have a focus on what Carlton is at its heart. A football club that has a proud successful history on winning and performing on field, with passionate supporters that love the club…

We need a clean out from the board to the playing list…

How many times can we do this and still get it so wrong?

For about 15 years after the salary cap breach the club failed to move forward in innovating ways and stuck with old methods.

We were thereabouts with Ratten and instead of tinkering to get things right, we lost patience and brought in Malthouse who was not in the right frame of mind. We then stripped back our list and put in place coaches not quite up to it, or players didn't buy in.

We now have a list which isn't too bad but are conditional as to when they come to work and coaching staff that either don't have a decent game plan or don't have the right communication skills to get it across. We are too reliant on talent rather than a gameplan that is feasible to the side we put out weekly.

I'm really interested in what we dish up this week and how we set up to combat the Hawks.

 

[charred_fate]

I fail to see what the board has to do with buggering draft picks or failure to spot talent in listed AFL players the way, for example, the Hawks can

 

[JustOneTime]

I fail to see what the board has to do with buggering draft picks or failure to spot talent in listed AFL players the way, for example, the Hawks can

The only thing i can think of as a link is that the board matched an appointment of Vossy with a soft side. Basically a poor match. Vossy would be a good coach at a North M side where physical intimidation is their mantra.

Vossy isnt such a great pick for some of the players we have on our list. He and hamill wouldnt have too much in common for a fair few of our players.

 

[Stamos]

Over recent history, the club’s lost its way…

Boards focus has been on off-field causes and how the clubs brand looks…

We need leaders, that have a focus on what Carlton is at its heart. A football club that has a proud successful history on winning and performing on field, with passionate supporters that love the club…

We need a clean out from the board to the playing list…

Our club is in the strongest position it has been this century.
5 of the 7 board members have been appointed in the last 3 and half years.


This is how I picture people wanting clean out the board:

 

[Gethelred]

All I know is if we're resetting the coaching panel at years end and Longmuir is sacked from Freo I'd want either him or Leppitsch as backline coaches. Every defense those two have operated have been top shelf regardless of the cattle. Longmuir had Tom Langdon looking like prime Alex Rance when he was assistant for the Pies in 2018.

Leppitsch somehow made Nathan Murphy and Darcy Moore one of the most impenetrable backlines going around too.

It's such a sliding doors moment that Teague wanted Longmuir as his defense line coach and it was gonna happen, but then he got the Freo job.

 

[gbatman]

Toby Greene was a midfielder. Worth a shot. Those guys who know how to find the ball but maybe aren't quite 'right' for the midfield mix would be a good shout to trial up forward. They basically just redefined toby Greene's 'allowed running areas' while he learnt and he still collected the pill, takcled and put his head over it like a midfielder and the rest flourished after a very short while.

As a midfielder he'd get 34 and give it away 31 times.

He clearly has it between the ears as a forward though and not many midfielders or backs have that. Not many can switch to forward and be good at it.

Green being tough and strong at the contest is a real positive but he's also really talented overhead. He does read the ball when it's going forward and knows how to do over his opponent. These are all qualities our small forwards lack.

 

[gbatman]

We start playing any mid for large periods forward and we are setting them up to fail, as well of even more criticism that Voss can't coach

Mentioned Williams forward for a while and he adds something we lack, but he is also conditional

I'd welcome Boyd being pushed forward but I'd replace Ollie for him at HB

We are already setup to fail. Sitting back doing nothing changes nothing.

We need to try some things, see if luck prevails and see if we can find someone.

I think for Ollie it's either make it at half back or put him on the trade table.

My suspicion is we will be looking to trade a few and that could yet include TDK to fix our problem with small forwards.

Until we get this right we will be failing pretty hard as a side.

 

[Arr0w]

We are already setup to fail. Sitting back doing nothing changes nothing.

We need to try some things, see if luck prevails and see if we can find someone.

I think for Ollie it's either make it at half back or put him on the trade table.

My suspicion is we will be looking to trade a few and that could yet include TDK to fix our problem with small forwards.

Until we get this right we will be failing pretty hard as a side.

I'd keep Ollie, but not HB

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

He clearly has it between the ears as a forward though and not many midfielders or backs have that. Not many can switch to forward and be good at it.

Green being tough and strong at the contest is a real positive but he's also really talented overhead. He does read the ball when it's going forward and knows how to do over his opponent. These are all qualities our small forwards lack.

Reading the ball etc is what I said. It's part of being that mid who can find the ball well but maybe doesn't quite fit in your rotation / is a butcher or doesn't do well trying to play 360 degrees and does better when there's a couple sticks to go at with more of your possessions. Exactly what toby was and exactly the type you'd want to trial forward. To me that could actually be Lord. Doesn't quite find it like Toby did but could work.

Alot of the other things He didn't 'have' when he started up there. He's also categorically not fast.

Overhead is basically the big one but he'd still be a gun small forward if he was shizen overhead imo

On our smalls. I know they lack them. That's why I'm keen on trialling maybe one of the mids who's on the end of the rotation / mid lower pecking order. Don't think anyone can be worse than motlop / cotters are and at least they'll have some sort of running power and grit in contest (unlike Mott's) and ability to find the ball (unlike Cotts) and ability to remain aware of their direct opponent (unlike either)

 

[gbatman]

Reading the ball etc is what I said. It's part of being that mid who can find the ball well but maybe doesn't quite fit in your rotation / is a butcher or doesn't do well trying to play 360 degrees and does better when there's a couple sticks to go at with more of your possessions. Exactly what toby was and exactly the type you'd want to trial forward. To me that could actually be Lord. Doesn't quite find it like Toby did but could work.

Alot of the other things He didn't 'have' when he started up there. He's also categorically not fast.

Overhead is basically the big one but he'd still be a gun small forward if he was shizen overhead imo

On our smalls. I know they lack them. That's why I'm keen on trialling maybe one of the mids who's on the end of the rotation / mid lower pecking order. Don't think anyone can be worse than motlop / cotters are and at least they'll have some sort of running power and grit in contest (unlike Mott's) and ability to find the ball (unlike Cotts) and ability to remain aware of their direct opponent (unlike either)

I agree. I saw Corns mention Lord as a forward option and I think he has some traits that could really do well. All he has to do is hit the ball hard and he's an upgrade on what we have.

Small light bodied small forwards who avoid the contests, have second rate skills, can't take a mark overhead and don't read the play well is what we have and it's a problem.

Some smaller forwards aren't overly quick but are smart, skilled and strong. Paul Chapman like.

I definitely like Lord forward as an idea. He chases and applies pressure well too. Apparently has a good tank and he seems to dispose of the ball well.

Would we give Wilson a run in the VFL as a forward just to see? Docherty? Boyd? Binns? What about Will White?

I think Moir has to be really pushed. He's been disappointing in practice games but sometimes blokes step up in the real thing.

Kemp at half forward is the other thing I want to see when he's third tall. He's got pace and can use it up around the open spaces.

I see Motlop as more of a midfielder the way he moves and reads the game up there but has not got the running capacity. He's had some good moments as a forward but has not convinced me.

Motlop, Cottrell, Fantasio and Fogarty are not impressing anyone in the contests. All very very poor. Have a look at the 4 Hawthorn have, they are a whole league above them. Much stronger at the ball.

I don't think people realise Cuningham has been a loss. He was very very good at shutting down opposition half backs and while he didn't kill it offensively every week he was at least influential most weeks. His level where your weakest small forward should be and we ran out with 4 who are weaker. Owies is the same. Considering what we have is much much weaker than Owies, he is also a big loss for us. Having 10 smallish forwards and none are able to cover our losses or improve on them is a massive mark against our recruiters.

So we are now at a stage where we experiment or die.

I'd keep Ollie, but not HB

Where then?

 

[Arr0w]

Where then?

I'd still have him as a wing rotation, I just don't rate his defensive nous or his distribution by foot as a rebounding defender

 

[gbatman]

I'd still have him as a wing rotation, I just don't rate his defensive nous or his distribution by foot as a rebounding defender

Roll with three wings. Camporeale, Acres and Hollands? I don't mind three wings but at least one of them has to have another position. Could it be Acres plays a bit forward, Hollands plays a bit back?

 

[Arr0w]

Roll with three wings. Camporeale, Acres and Hollands? I don't mind three wings but at least one of them has to have another position. Could it be Acres plays a bit forward, Hollands plays a bit back?

Sides will generally have 3 players rotating through the wing

 

[gbatman]

Sides will generally have 3 players rotating through the wing

I think we used Motlop a bit but I can't remember the others. I like Docherty as a rotation on the wing.