Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

[kaiserchief13]

I'm still not confident this is not just noise in the data.

I've said this before in another thread but myocarditis is more commmon than what most people think it is. It's just that we are looking for the data and assume there is a link to it.

Although there have been studies done for half a decade, we are still along way from been confident to know what causes myocarditis, as in, why some people get it and some don't.

There was a link with myocarditis with the smallpox vaccine in military personell but there has been numerous studies that show myocarditis is probably more linked with excessive excercise after infections (viral or bacterial). It appears that without suffecient rest, the heart is not able to stop infection during cardiomyopathy and possibly causing myocardial infraction. It's possible to assume that over exertion can cause the outer layers of the heart to weaken and not able to stop an inflammation/cytokine storm. On the other hand vaccinated subjects/cohorts have shown to reduce symptoms and deaths despite excessive excercise and infection.

In other words there is no good reason not to be vaccinated if you are young and healthy. If you have a possible predisposition to myocarditis getting covid is going to be a serious issue in which the vaccine can either prevent or reduce substantially.

And we haven't even discussed the whole epidemiological and ethical debate that letting run a deadly and highly contagious disease amongst young people and then allowing it to mutate freely and often.

Do you know anyone who received Pfizer and got myocarditis not long after? I know a couple of people (male/female in 30-39 age group) so it's either a) highly unlikely (0.001% or thereabouts?) I'd know a couple of people who had that reaction or b) you have no idea what you are saying. Which is it?

 

[Fabab]

You seem to be a little disorientated... you are on the "virus" board.

Isnt this thread about Liam Jones?

 

[Fabab]

Do you know anyone who received Pfizer and got myocarditis not long after? I know a couple of people (male/female in 30-39 age group) so it's either a) highly unlikely (0.001% or thereabouts?) I'd know a couple of people who had that reaction or b) you have no idea what you are saying. Which is it?

If you said saturday ends with a y i wouldnt believe you.

 

[Roby]

Do you know anyone who received Pfizer and got myocarditis not long after? I know a couple of people (male/female in 30-39 age group) so it's either a) highly unlikely (0.001% or thereabouts?) I'd know a couple of people who had that reaction or b) you have no idea what you are saying. Which is it?

Yes I do know somebody received Pfizer and had myocarditis. One person. Me.

I highly doubt it was because of the vaccine. And when I say highly doubt, I'm just being polite.

By the way how is yours and my anecdotal evidence versus multiple studies over years in biology and immunology regarding immune response to virus causing myocarditis more valuable?

You failed to mention but which part of my post was in contention?

 

[Gruffles]

Isnt this thread about Liam Jones?

That's the intention... but once it got 'teleported' to the coronavirus board it was always going to end up spiralling away from the core theme.

There's a new thread on the main board that's very quickly drifted too. I wouldn't be surprised to see it moved here by the end of the week!

 

[Fabab]

That's the intention... but once it got 'teleported' to the coronavirus board it was always going to end up spiralling away from the core theme.

There's a new thread on the main board that's very quickly drifted too. I wouldn't be surprised to see it moved here by the end of the week!

Cheers matey.

 

[Roby]

I live in France. You're wrong. First of all, outside of some professions, Covid vaccines are not/never mandatory.

Oh look, anti-vaxxer comes and does a drive by misinformation and gets shot down YET again.

Don't worry they will be back tomorrow, maybe in a different vehicle.

 

[Roby]

Isnt this thread about Liam Jones?

Yes. Not much really about it.

In regards to Liam, it's interesting that out 720 healthy young professional working individuals only one has decided to not vaccinate as of yet.

I think regardless of the vocal and egregious minority, this pretty much sums were our society stands or is heading to. Is this a bad thing?

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Fully vaxxed Peter Hellier just got Covid.. Vaccine working well it seems, did not stop transmission even with low case count. Imagine all the unvaxxed who had Covid posting about how happy they are their immune system did it's job - the woke vax crowd would be calling for them to be shot lol. Look at the reaction to Joe Rogan beating Covid in a few days using his immune system. All my friends who had Covid during vaccine rollout beat it with nothing more than than a headache for a few days lol. Most didn't even realise they had it. They definitely didn't feel the need to post about it on social media though.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

The decision to suspend unvaccinated civil servants—including firefighters and even library workers—proved deeply controversial, especially since Macron faces a tough reelection battle next April. His foes seized on the issue, holding weekly protests that at one point brought tens of thousands of people into the streets, with signs like “vaccinated for freedom” and “It’s our choice.”

Definitely no mandates guys, all fake news. You just can't go to work and you won't get paid - but that's not a mandate... Just like Australia, no mandates guys it's all fake news. You are still allowed to breath and eat.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

I live in France. You're wrong. First of all, outside of some professions, Covid vaccines are not/never mandatory.

What is happening is that for over 65's, boosters are becoming part of the health pass scheme, which is what you use as proof of vaccination when it's required. This will kick in from Dec 15 depending on eligibility (6 months after second dose). Note that you don't need a vaccination to have a health pass, a recent negative test will do.

Of course, you could have checked this yourself. But you didn't.

Over-65s in France will soon only be allowed to travel or visit restaurants and museums if they have a Covid booster jab, President Emmanuel Macron has said.

"From 15 December, you will need to provide proof of a booster jab to extend the validity of your health pass," he warned in a TV address.

The new rule further tightens one of the strictest Covid regimes in Europe.

No mandates guys all fake news. The President is lying.

 

[bing181]

Definitely no mandates guys, all fake news.

Good story bro, but not sure what your problem is: comprehension, reading ability? As I said: "outside of some professions, Covid vaccines are not/never mandatory."

As in Australia and most of the world, vaccine mandates in France apply to health workers/professionals. The "Firefighters" in there is a word lost in translation because in France the "pompiers" are who you call when you're having a heart attack. Librarians is BS, but once again, heh, you can check for yourself. Here's the list:

Travail et Covid-19 : quelles sont les règles ?

Des dispositions spécifiques sont mises en place en raison de la lutte contre l'épidémie liée à la Covid-19. Ces dispositions varient selon que vous êtes salarié de droit privé ou agent public.

www.service-public.fr

 

[LuvtheKangas]

It's frustrating that the antivax morons here are able to point to low incidences of covid cases / deaths in Australia as some sort of proof that they are right. Totally ignoring why our experience is relatively successful.

If only they lived in the southern states of the US where moronic Republican governors share their view ("lived" being a potentially short term condition).

 

[bing181]

No mandates guys all fake news. The President is lying.

Yep, as I said, over 65's when they're eligible, will need a booster to keep their health pass valid. But the article is misleading, because you can also validate your health pass with a negative test or proof that you've had Covid within the last 6 months. In any case, these aren't mandates, no-one's obliged to get a vaccine. But heh, don't take my word for it, I know you love Doing Your Own Research:

Alerte Covid | info.gouv.fr

Toute l'information sur les politiques publiques et l'action du Gouvernement

www.gouvernement.fr

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Yep, as I said, over 65's when they're eligible, will need a booster to keep their health pass valid. But the article is misleading, because you can also validate your health pass with a negative test or proof that you've had Covid within the last 6 months. In any case, these aren't mandates, no-one's obliged to get a vaccine. But heh, don't take my word for it, I know you love Doing Your Own Research:

Alerte Covid | info.gouv.fr

Toute l'information sur les politiques publiques et l'action du Gouvernement

www.gouvernement.fr

Im laughing as you try dance around reality. No one is obliged to get vaccinated, you just won't be able to participate in society.

 

[bing181]

Interesting the other quote in the article, the "deeply controversial" is nothing but journalistic sensationalism. There were a few weeks of mutterings from the same right-wing nutters and conspiracy theorists that we see in Australia, but it's petered out. In any case, vax rates in France are high, and even before the new booster shot requirements were announced, over 5 million people had had a booster. The French may have their foibles, but wanting to die isn't one of them.

Also FWIW and to keep this somewhat on track, AFAIK all professional footballers are vaccinated, there haven't been any of the Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

33

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

holdouts. Football/soccer/rugby plays to open stadiums, but you do need a health pass (vaccinated, recovered or negative test). I even attended an AFL match between the Paris Cockerels and the Antony Blues last Saturday. Good match, good little crowd, beers and hotdogs available ... and you had to show your health pass to get into the grounds.

 

[bing181]

Im laughing as you try dance around reality. No one is obliged to get vaccinated, you just won't be able to participate in society.

Not only are you having an issue with reading and comprehension, your geography seems a bit out of whack: you're confusing France with Austria, where the non-vaccinated are indeed confined to barracks.

We're doing fine over here, thanks for asking.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

If a neutral observer read this thread the only conclusion he or she could come to was that the anti vaxx crew are being absolutely walloped

 

[Gruffles]

Just a reminder to all members of the human race, it's OK to be wrong sometimes.

There's generally 2 paths you can take when you have found out that you've made a mistake. One makes you smarter and sometimes even earns a bit of respect from your peers, the other is what we've seen above.

 

[sobrave]

Stonks go up appears to be a truly terrible poster. Shame.

 

[Gruffles]

All my friends who had Covid during vaccine rollout beat it with nothing more than than a headache for a few days lol. Most didn't even realise they had it.

Know at least 15 people who got it - all completely fine. One person over 70 got it, went to hospital and was discharged a few days later

That's one hell of a headache to be in hospital for a few days.

 

[theyellowsash]

Do you know anyone who received Pfizer and got myocarditis not long after? I know a couple of people (male/female in 30-39 age group) so it's either a) highly unlikely (0.001% or thereabouts?) I'd know a couple of people who had that reaction or b) you have no idea what you are saying. Which is it?

There's data/studies showing its about 2 per million for that age group so yes, unlucky.

Are those people related?

 

[theyellowsash]

Stonks go up appears to be a truly terrible poster. Shame.

Not stonks apparently

 

[HairyO]

That's one hell of a headache to be in hospital for a few days.

I dont know a single person who has had it. So either he walks in a very particular circle where everyone ignores basic hygiene, he has tens of thousands of friends, or he is claiming randos on the internet who say they have had it as people he knows.

Of course its easy to claim things on the internet.

 

[azlou]

If a neutral observer read this thread the only conclusion he or she could come to was that the anti vaxx crew are being absolutely walloped

Love it keep up the great work