Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop. *MB Thread*

[Tom12]

Due to the outrage towards Collingwood in that last thread, distinguishing them as 'pretenders' because they're winning games simply-In my opinion, it seems the 'pretender' label should be placed onto Carlton. Okay, pretty bold statement. Why though? They're in the top 8 sure, but any Football expert would certainly call this their certain 'breakout year', establishing themselves as a force. They have failed to do so, bumbling there way to loses, underperforming. Point being, they should be playing more consistently. If clubs like Collingwood are 'pretenders', what is a club like Carlton. With:
a) A large number of no. 1 draft picks. (Gibbs, Kreuzer, Murphy etc.)
b) A youthful replacement coach- clubs chase coaches like Ratten, not long out of the game-eager and prepared.
c) The supposed best player in the game in Judd. No doubting his posistion as one of the best atm, his form is hardly something to criticise.
d) It would be unfair to call there second-tier players a reason for there underachievement. They have the leading goalkicker in the game atm, decent crumbers, a fair backline with Thornton, Simpson and then on-guys like Stevens, Scottland, Waite, Fisher.

 

[nihh]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Let them complain, it means we are doing something right.

BTW sure you are not a closet Pies fan?

 

[ManWithNoName]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

In order to be labelled a "pretender" you have to appear to be moderately competent. Carlton have failed this convincingly.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

But... but... they are the only team to come close to beating St Kilda...


Oh wait, no they're not.

 

[Tom12]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Let them complain, it means we are doing something right.

BTW sure you are not a closet Pies fan?

No, I dislike Carlton, and like Dane Swan.

 

[bluesforever]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

You people must be bored. Carlton are clearly a young side on the rise with a better midfield than 13-14 other clubs. Once our young backman and HFF's mature in a year or two we will be winning premierships.

So Carlton are NOT pretenders, they aren't the REAL deal just yet, but it's getting closer and closer.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

You people must be bored. Carlton are clearly a young side on the rise with a better midfield than 13-14 other clubs. Once our young backman and HFF's mature in a year or two we will be winning premierships.

So Carlton are NOT pretenders, they aren't the REAL deal just yet, but it's getting closer and closer.

We're still waiting.

 

[crazy_ahqmed]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

So Carlton are NOT pretenders, they aren't the REAL deal just yet, but it's getting closer and closer.

It's OK, we know you are coming. Just let us know when you get there. Where ever that is?

 

[mediumsizered]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Due to the outrage towards Collingwood in that last thread, distinguishing them as 'pretenders' because they're winning games simply-In my opinion, it seems the 'pretender' label should be placed onto Carlton. Okay, pretty bold statement. Why though? They're in the top 8 sure, but any Football expert would certainly call this their certain 'breakout year', establishing themselves as a force. They have failed to do so, bumbling there way to loses, underperforming. Point being, they should be playing more consistently. If clubs like Collingwood are 'pretenders', what is a club like Carlton. With:
a) A large number of no. 1 draft picks. (Gibbs, Kreuzer, Murphy etc.)
b) A youthful replacement coach- clubs chase coaches like Ratten, not long out of the game-eager and prepared.
c) The supposed best player in the game in Judd. No doubting his posistion as one of the best atm, his form is hardly something to criticise.
d) It would be unfair to call there second-tier players a reason for there underachievement. They have the leading goalkicker in the game atm, decent crumbers, a fair backline with Thornton, Simpson and then on-guys like Stevens, Scottland, Waite, Fisher.

Let's see now. We've beaten the teams currently sitting 3rd, 4th & 5th on the ladder (we have beaten the 5th placed team twice this season). We had a shot on goal, with 2 minutes left in the last quarter, to take the lead in our game against the team currently sitting on top of the ladder. We also kicked the highest score so far kicked against the top team.

Our number #1 draft picks are aged 21, 20 & 20 respectively, who between them have played 155 AFL games (an average of just under 52 each). I guess they should be dominating the competition now, just like Riewoldt, Kosi, Ball & Goddard were at the same age.

We haven't played finals for 7 years & for much of that time have had the worst, or close to worst, list in the competition & yet while currently sitting in 7th place on the ladder are pretenders. What I would like to know is what we are pretenders in? Most Carlton supporters on here predicted a finish in the bottom half of the final eight this season, on the basis of improvement of our younger players, while at the same time taking into account the small number of quality players in the important 25-30 age group ie those players with bigger bodies & well in excess of 100 games experience.

 

[jonoman89]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

I mean, we've only beaten the 3rd and 4th placed teams by a huge margin, and beaten 5th twice (once interstate). I mean ****, we aren't capable of anything. And we have one of the youngest squads in the competition, and haven't used the "injury" excuse like every other team when the going gets tough.

Good thread. Would read again.

 

[JuddyBuddy]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Another stupid Carlton hatred thread. FFS.

How are we pretending? The realistic Carlton fans will tell you we'll be stoked if we just sneak in to 8th possy this year. We have nothing to fake, we've been a bottom side for years and are yet to realistically prove otherwise. Hence, if we even sneak in to the 8, the majority of us will be happy as with that. It's been a long time.

Collingwood and Carlton are really on level pegging this year...

Worthy teams Collingwood have beaten:
Brisbane x1
Port x1
Sydney x1
(Close losses to Adelaide and Essendon)

Carlton:
Brisbane x2
Western Bulldogs x1
(Close losses to Essendon, Sydney, Hawthorn, Freo and St Kilda)

You say we should be performing due to #1 picks. Picks that date back a massive a four years *yawn*. Murphy is the oldest of the lot and is perfectly on track, Gibbs is the next oldest and is narrowly behind Murph...and then we have Kruezer who is killing it in his second year...kid is gonna be an absolute star, to be playing the way he is in his position in his second year is a massive achievement that has gone understated.

On a side note: St Kilda is finally starting to gel this year with a bunch of early picks from around 2001-2002. Using that as a guide, Carlton really shouldnt be challenging until 2014 with our current crop of early picks, so just stfu until St Kilda achieves anything!!

The nerve of St Kilda fans with their 1 flag, lol, seriously!

 

[GoDons]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Interesting to call them pretenders and say yourself that they're 'underperforming'.

Personally, I don't think the actual team are pretenders. I think they're playing exactly on the level they should be given the side they've got. They've got some great kids that are building consistency, Chris Judd who's a champion and Fev who's good every second week. However, behind those profiles are a number of guys that'd really struggle for games elsewhere (Armfield has played 9 games this year for instance) and there's a gaping hole at CHF. I wouldn't have said they'd be up there in the pace stakes either.

I don't think this was ever going to be the year they'd rival the really top sides (ladder wise), this is the year they look to play finals and I'd back them to do so at the moment.

What's pretend about Carlton is what a number of Carlton supporters try to depict themselves as. You wouldn't have to search for long on the Carlton board to find supporters saying 'if we play to our potential we'll win by 100 points'. That's not to say all Carlton supporters think that way, but there are enough of them to notice it.

 

[JuddyBuddy]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

However, behind those profiles are a number of guys that'd really struggle for games elsewhere (Armfield has played 9 games this year for instance) and there's a gaping hole at CHF. I wouldn't have said they'd be up there in the pace stakes either.

Whats with all the negativity towards Army? I'll get it out of the way and say I dont think he's the next superstar, but it's only his second year and he's had a few good games amongst those 9, so I think people are being a tad hard on him in what is really his first proper year as a senior player.

He is quite quick too GoDons, if you watch some highlights he is pretty good at slipping tackles. His speed is actually one of his best assets. Garlett is another one with speed on his side. But, i'll agree we're not really rated a fast team for a reason, we dont have too many speedsters.

 

[GoDons]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Whats with all the negativity towards Army? I'll get it out of the way and say I dont think he's the next superstar, but it's only his second year and he's had a few good games amongst those 9, so I think people are being a tad hard on him in what is really his first proper year as a senior player.

He is quite quick too GoDons, if you watch some highlights he is pretty good at slipping tackles. His speed is actually one of his best assets. Garlett is another one with speed on his side. But, i'll agree we're not really rated a fast team for a reason, we dont have too many speedsters.

I thought I'd get picked up naming someone.

The guy's 22 now, and I appreciate the difference between a WAFL environment and an AFL environment, but by that stage, he should be fairly ready to go so I don't think he's worthy of too much latitude age wise.

I'm aware that he's quick (he nearly kept up Andy Lovett last year ), that's probably one of the reasons he gets a game, I just think he's behind in regard to awareness and skills by foot. I see him as a slightly richer man's Jake King, and I don't think those types are in high demand.

But this thread isn't about Armfield, so let's not get too caught up discussing him.

 

[iRemember87]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Due to the outrage towards Collingwood in that last thread, distinguishing them as 'pretenders' because they're winning games simply-In my opinion, it seems the 'pretender' label should be placed onto Carlton. Okay, pretty bold statement. Why though? They're in the top 8 sure, but any Football expert would certainly call this their certain 'breakout year', establishing themselves as a force. They have failed to do so, bumbling there way to loses, underperforming. Point being, they should be playing more consistently. If clubs like Collingwood are 'pretenders', what is a club like Carlton. With:
a) A large number of no. 1 draft picks. (Gibbs, Kreuzer, Murphy etc.)
b) A youthful replacement coach- clubs chase coaches like Ratten, not long out of the game-eager and prepared.
c) The supposed best player in the game in Judd. No doubting his posistion as one of the best atm, his form is hardly something to criticise.
d) It would be unfair to call there second-tier players a reason for there underachievement. They have the leading goalkicker in the game atm, decent crumbers, a fair backline with Thornton, Simpson and then on-guys like Stevens, Scottland, Waite, Fisher.

And your point is what??

That Carlton aren't good?? because they aren't winning each week cause they have 3 number 1's Judd and Fev??

LEt me remind you that StKilda has 3 number 1 picks running around and until this year have n't been consistant in winning or if they make finals choke on the last line.

Ask anybody else on BigFOoty and they will say our backline is shit, but thaks for saying its fair. But you name players like Simpson int he backline....ummm

Waite is out for the year and is a big loss, Fisher has played two games this year and Scotlan only half the year after surgery in the off season.

So i'm still lost in your point, 2 years agao we were bottom two, yes TWO years ago, and now we sit 7th, so why should we be winning every week?? consisntancy is ok, we are 6-7 so that is 50/50, not bad after 6 years down the bottom and we still have half a season to go.

You must be upset you didn't spank us like you normally do and that we came so close to knocking you off the top...don't choke in the finals...although i expect it!!

 

[DerpWerls]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Our number #1 draft picks are aged 21, 20 & 20 respectively, who between them have played 155 AFL games (an average of just under 52 each)

for those who couldn't divide 150 by 3

 

[JeffDunne]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Our number #1 draft picks are aged 21, 20 & 20 respectively, who between them have played 155 AFL games (an average of just under 52 each). I guess they should be dominating the competition now, just like Riewoldt, Kosi, Ball & Goddard were at the same age.

Yeah I mean only a moron would have been predicting our window was closed at the end of the 2005 season . . . oh wait . . . that would include you

 

[Quixote]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

^^^ Very hard to argue with JD there. Seems a case of Check Mate to me.

All I was going to do was post the following. I do however sincerely hope my post does not undermine the absolute pawned justice just handed out to Mediumsizered and the Carn'shakemehandFClub as a whole.

 

[The Donners]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Let's see now. We've beaten the teams currently sitting 3rd, 4th & 5th on the ladder (we have beaten the 5th placed team twice this season).

I mean, we've only beaten the 3rd and 4th placed teams by a huge margin, and beaten 5th twice (once interstate). I mean ****, we aren't capable of anything. And we have one of the youngest squads in the competition, and haven't used the "injury" excuse like every other team when the going gets tough.

Good thread. Would read again.

Interesting, Carlton beat the Western Bulldogs, Brisbane and Collingwood in 2008 and finished 11th and also lost to Essendon in round 13 when they were 6 wins and 6 losses. Deja vu???

 

[The Fireman]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Yeah I mean only a moron would have been predicting our window was closed at the end of the 2005 season . . . oh wait . . . that would include you

Ouch, a great example of "lack of Footy nous" coming back to bite.

 

[Dylz48]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

You people must be bored. Carlton are clearly a young side on the rise with a better midfield than 13-14 other clubs. Once our young backman and HFF's mature in a year or two we will be winning premierships.

So Carlton are NOT pretenders, they aren't the REAL deal just yet, but it's getting closer and closer.

yeah but the thing is if you lose one player in that midfield it 13-14 clubs have a better midfield then you not much depth there.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Yeah I mean only a moron would have been predicting our window was closed at the end of the 2005 season . . . oh wait . . . that would include you

and me and I consider it still closed
You will NOT win the flag. Cats and Dogs will run you into the ground

 

[JeffDunne]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

and me and I consider it still closed

So a 12-0 team that sits top of the ladder with the league's (statistically) best defence doesn't have a shot at the flag?

Carlton lemmings. Gotta luv 'em.

 

[Mofra]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

You will NOT win the flag. Cats and Dogs will run you into the ground

St Kilda will finish the year the way we did last year - limping to the finals. The decline has already begun judging by the past couple of weeks, winning in unconvincing fashion.

 

[JeffDunne]

Re: Carlton- Pretenders. Full Stop.

Shit, they now award flags after round 12?