Carlton Supporters and The AFL

[DTRAIN87]

This decision has shown once again that Carlton supporters whinge when being made to play within the rules. The reactions to the Greg Williams tribunal fiasco and the penalties regarding the salary cap cheating smacked the footballing world with a sense of arrogance and that it was an absolute travisty Carlton could be treated in such a way.

Here one of their own has been dealt appropriately and fairly within the rules, however again the club decides to attack the AFL and act like the toys have been spilled out of the pram. The Carlton supporters claiming the AFL should be shunned by Carlton and their supporters wanting the decision to be reviewed in court basically reiterates the fact that Carlton should not play by the guidelines and rules every other club is bound by.

Judd was clearly guilty and what he did was a low and cheap act that shocked many. The real problem is not Judd but rather the fact that there seems to be a toxic culture at Carlton that is clouding their ability to make good decisions and benefit the club. This year the club has failed to perform, however this is not the fault of the AFL but rather the club.

Maybe Carlton needs to refocus on their football and steer away from the tactics that caused them so much previous damage? The fact that their supporters claim things like the third party deals for Judd among others and that it was OK for them to win 195 by cheating the cap to obtain players in the years leading up to it shows nothing but an arrogant culture that the rules do not apply to them.

This has happened to Carlton over the course of the VFL days from the era of zoning to the more recent Pratt days. Maybe Carlton should move away from the questionable culture of the past 50 or so years as this will allow them to progress better?

 

[dumb]

yes, some of the stuff in carlton the forum is ridiculous. some of the posters (which is who you really mean by 'supporters' and 'the club') bring the outrage on themselves.
ultimately i just think it mirrors any other club supporter base though. plenty of supporters get shrill when they are victims (rightly or wrongly), that's pretty obvious.

as to whether this can somehow tie into any culture argument you're trying to make, i don't know. clearly we haven't done very well this year. i agree that there is a certain arrogance to resting players early in the year before we have even made the finals, and that that arrogance may have permeated through the club.

The fact that their supporters claim things like the third party deals for Judd among others

not everyone has forgotten that geelong supporters were hoping someone would come to the table to keep ablett.

 

[iluvparis]

The Judd penalty was deserved - 3 weeks would have been to little and 5 probably too much.

However the Williams decision will go down as close to the worst in tribunal history (and plenty of unbiased non-Carlton fans would agree). There has been nothing like it before or since.

Salaray cap punishments? - Meh - probably on the harsher side of fair but were just steamrolled by the AFL as an example - as long as they dish out a similar punishment if similar circumstances arose (debatable) I am ok with it.

 

[blueboy25]

not everyone has forgotten that geelong supporters were hoping someone would come to the table to keep ablett.

Little Gazza was already on a nice little 3rd party deal at Geelong in the first place but Cats supporters don't like mentioning it.

 

[mufassa]

Cannot believe the over reaction to the Judd decision and the umpiring on Fri night - the blues board is lit up with complaints that Friday night was a set up and the Blues robbed!! I have read so many articles on the game and not 1 journalist mentioned poor umpiring against the Blues.

How can a 53 point hiding be the umpires fault?

For what is is worth the Blues won the free kick count - 17-16 - robbed of a game!!

 

[HeCanGetAndGo]

Are they really going to challenge? Their "defense" was terrible and a waste of time, it should have added weeks to be brutally honest.

 

[bourbons]

...

Here one of their own has been dealt appropriately and fairly within the rules, however again the club decides to attack the AFL and act like the toys have been spilled out of the pram. The Carlton supporters claiming the AFL should be shunned by Carlton and their supporters wanting the decision to be reviewed in court basically reiterates the fact that Carlton should not play by the guidelines and rules every other club is bound by.

...

Don't think the club has had a whinge, all I heard was Judd's manager having a crack on SEN this morning. But then again haven't seen the papers or listened to anything else - got a link?

Fair point though about some of our supporters reactions, penalty was fair and just.

The Williams thing - nah. An umpire tries to get in between 2 players, after the siren FFS, and gets pushed away by a bloke not even looking at him. One of the biggest jokes you will ever see, the club was right to contest it by any means necessary.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

... poor umpiring against the Blues. How can a 53 point hiding be the umpires fault?

I don't think any sane Blues supporter is suggesting the umpires won you the game, but you've got some serious tunnel vision if you can't see that you got a VERY generous run from the umpires, and at some critical stages of the game.

For what is is worth the Blues won the free kick count - 17-16 - robbed of a game!!

Nobody buys the old "but look at the free kick count!" stance anymore. The argument of using the free kick count to explain away lopsided umpiring got laughed out the door long ago.

One team could get gifted 7 goals from free kicks (sound familiar?) and another could get 7 free kicks on the back flank or wing.
They've received 7 frees each, but one team is now 42 points ahead.

 

[dumb]

Cannot believe the over reaction to the Judd decision and the umpiring on Fri night - the blues board is lit up with complaints that Friday night was a set up and the Blues robbed!! I have read so many articles on the game and not 1 journalist mentioned poor umpiring against the Blues.

How can a 53 point hiding be the umpires fault?

For what is is worth the Blues won the free kick count - 17-16 - robbed of a game!!

i agree that the umpiring was not responsible for our loss. in terms of the umpiring itself, it was general consensus amongst all clubs, and even NM supporters said they had the rub of the green.
53 points is a little too much to pin the umpiring on, not that people should do it anyway. there's always other ways teams can come out on top with their play before umpires come into it.

 

[blueboy25]

I don't think any sane Blues supporter is suggesting the umpires won you the game, but you've got some serious tunnel vision if you can't see that you got a VERY generous run from the umpires, and at some critical stages of the game.
.

Spot on KB.

Even my brother who is one of the most feral North supporters on the planet said that North were pretty lucky with the umpires on friday night. Just don't ask him about Ziebell

 

[mufassa]

I don't think any sane Blues supporter is suggesting the umpires won you the game, but you've got some serious tunnel vision if you can't see that you got a VERY generous run from the umpires, and at some critical stages of the game.



Nobody buys the old "but look at the free kick count!" stance anymore. The argument of using the free kick count to explain away lopsided umpiring got laughed out the door long ago.

One team could get gifted 7 goals from free kicks (sound familiar?) and another could get 7 free kicks on the back flank or wing.
They've received 7 frees each, but one team is now 42 points ahead.

But if Jamison is getting his pants pulled down and dives knee's 1st into Petries back shouldn't Jamison be the one in the gun and not the umps?

It is so easy when you are clearly getting beaten to blame the umpires - far be it to point the finger at the players (who you love) or the coaches.

One or 2 goals maybe you were stiff - 7 definately not. The best team won on Friday night - with or without the umpires.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

The best team won on Friday night - with or without the umpires.

With.

 

[bombermick]

It's a fair point, there's certainly a pattern. Their proud history has them conditioned to expect success, and when it isn't happening someone has to be blamed - and what better target than the AFL?

The Williams case was bizarre, as he clearly knew he was pushing the umpire. McKay's reaction outside the tribunal was odd; he should have taken the 4 weeks with glee.

 

[mufassa]

With.

In your opinion - I watched the game again last night - your team plays undisplined man first football. 7 goals from frees - 5 were there - 1 was not and 1 was 50/50. Show me 1 article backing up your claim that the Roos were heavily favoured. My tip is your bias.

But we kicked 24 goals to 14 - so who are to blame for the other 17? Boundary and Goal umpires?

 

[HeCanGetAndGo]

North Melbourne won the game due to having better skills, being harder at it and kicking accurately.

 

[mufassa]

North Melbourne won the game due to having better skills, being harder at it and kicking accurately.

100% correct - someone that understands the game and does not have blinkers on.

 

[GreatBradScott]

North Melbourne won the game due to having better skills, being harder at it and kicking accurately.

Nah, not even.

 

[WCErevival]

According to the games stats North only recieved 4 goals from frees. That still gives them a 5 goal victory

 

[HeCanGetAndGo]

According to the games stats North only recieved 4 goals from frees. That still gives them a 5 goal victory

But but but... umm... the game was over by the time North had kicked theirs!

 

[Oneiros]

I actually happened to be in Melbourne on a holiday that friday and attended the game so I could see Etihad (great place to watch footy, btw) and whilst I saw some real quirky free kicks here and there (that holding the ball decision against the NM player who clearly handballed before he was touched was a real eye popper) for the most part it was pretty reasonable.

The reason behind so many free kicks inside 50 for NM should surely be obvious to anyone watching - I can't believe this is even being discussed. The NM forwards were far and away stronger marks with a greater physical presence. The makeshift Carlton backline just never looked like it could compete on level terms so they had to bend the rules and double-team opponents to try and get a leg up. Both of these mean that you are likely to concede free kicks.

Meanwhile at the other end Carlton's forwards simply weren't attempting to compete like that - their marks were from kicks to advantage on the lead.

I mean come on, yes I dislike Carlton (duty-bound to as a WCE supporter!) but I also dislike the hell out of North Melbourne after all the argy-bargy between supporters after our games this year. So I don't like having to say nice things about NM forwards, but they clearly had the wood over Carlton's backline in marking contests and the free kick i50 count was merely a symptom of that, not a cause.

 

[mufassa]

i agree that the umpiring was not responsible for our loss. in terms of the umpiring itself, it was general consensus amongst all clubs, and even NM supporters said they had the rub of the green.

Funny - the general consensus on here is that the umpires were reasonable. Things are being rubbed - not sure it is the green this time.

 

[Necromancer Beth]

Calrton supporters have really tarnished their reputations even further lately. Accept it and move on.

What I find most amusing is that they whinge and whine about the way the AFL is out to screw them. What nonsense. Without AFL assistance, there is a good chance Carlton would cease to exist as we know them today. They even gave you multpile extensions on your loans.

 

[dumb]

Funny - the general consensus on here is that the umpires were reasonable. Things are being rubbed - not sure it is the green this time.

i suggest reading the gameday thread

 

[mufassa]

i suggest reading the gameday thread

I suggest taking the Blues hat off, removing the eye patch and watching the game again.

 

[dumb]

I suggest taking the Blues hat off, removing the eye patch and watching the game again.

this time it's 'the free count was even, the umpiring must be ok', when normally it's 'just because the count is lopsided, doesn't mean the umpiring wasn't fair'. umpiring consensus on the nth - carlton game extends beyond this thread, i think you'll find.