No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[efcboy]

Have we heard a decent rebuttal for this yet...?

• when getting tested, the vast majority of the Players failed to declare receiving injections on their doping control form, which ‘[did] not encourage confidence in their statements’;

Yes - only 21 players were tested out of the 34. Out of that 21 remaining more than half were tested before the thymosin program commenced so they couldn't possibly list something they hadn't received. Of the remaining 5 or 6 that were tested after receiving thymosin they should have listed it.

However my understanding is players believed ASADA would receive the club documented supplements listed and they had to inform them of anything they had taken outside this.

It's a pretty silly system if ASADA expect athletes to remember off the top of their head (coming off the training track) everything they took over a period of time.

 

[doug85]

Has it ever been confirmed that we were offered a deal by ASADA?

 

[efcboy]

Has it ever been confirmed that we were offered a deal by ASADA?

I know Crameri was offered 2 weeks and rejected it as he believed he was innocent

 

[duckdog]

fanks, Captain Obvious.

He's got more doozies than George Dubbya Jnr honestly

 

[duckdog]

I read CAS stating that there would be no purpose using thymomodulin in a recovery program for professional athletes and thus it was not plausible that the supplement used was thymomodulin. Given this statement how is it that Melbourne FC have been spared. They sourced thymomodulin through Dank. If the CAS statements are correct then one could only conclude that multiple Melbourne FC players are also guilty of taking TB4.

No finals and no money sort of spared

 

[Max Headroom]

Yes - only 21 players were tested out of the 34. Out of that 21 remaining more than half were tested before the thymosin program commenced so they couldn't possibly list something they hadn't received. Of the remaining 5 or 6 that were tested after receiving thymosin they should have listed it.

However my understanding is players believed ASADA would receive the club documented supplements listed and they had to inform them of anything they had taken outside this.

It's a pretty silly system if ASADA expect athletes to remember off the top of their head (coming off the training track) everything they took over a period of time.

This answer appeals to the Essendon side of me but have any of the players come out and said this directly, I don't think that they have?

CAS said their evidence was unsatisfactory in this regard but given they only heard the testimony of a few I wonder how many of those were in the 5 or 6, and were the others having different injections that they should have been listing too? I recall they quoted only one player and his answer was pretty vague iirc.

Probably rhetorical questions at the moment really.

 

[mxett]

Melbourne and Carlton got their number 1 picks...

Good point. Carlton received sanctions for cheating, which made them even more shit, yet they received multiple first round picks as a consequence. Where was the outcry?

 

[bomberjez]

However my understanding is players believed ASADA would receive the club documented supplements listed and they had to inform them of anything they had taken outside this.

Source?

 

[efcboy]

This answer appeals to the Essendon side of me but have any of the players come out and said this directly, I don't think that they have?

CAS said their evidence was unsatisfactory in this regard but given they only heard the testimony of a few I wonder how many of those were in the 5 or 6, and were the others having different injections that they should have been listing too? I recall they quoted only one player and his answer was pretty vague iirc.

Probably rhetorical questions at the moment really.

This was Hird's response when asked on this topic.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Personally think this is players best route if they decide on Swiss appeal, the fact CAS did not address each player's case separately.

Essendon 34: Two banned players look to Argentinian CAS appeal case

by Jon Pierik

The first successful appeal against the Court of Arbitration for Sport could hold the key to at least two of the suspended 34 players being cleared of an anti-doping ban.

While lawyers for former Bombers Brent Prismall and Stewart Crameri were under fire from former WADA president John Fahey on Monday, they continue to contemplate their next move, with the 2007 case involving Argentinian tennis player Guillermo Canas high in their thoughts.

Lawyer and Bulldogs president Peter Gordon – Crameri and Prismall are now at the Whitten Oval – had stated the Canas case was one of three reasons an appeal could be lodged by February 10, with an interim injunction also on the agenda, which could allow the players to return this season.

Canas had been suspended for two years by the ATP after testing positive for a banned diuretic – hydrochlorothiazide. He argued the drug was present in medicine given to him by ATP doctors.

He took his case to the Swiss-based CAS and largely lost, but then won under appeal to the Swiss Federal Tribunal – the same court the "Essendon 34" are considering lodging their case in. Canas was the first athlete to successfully appeal in the then 23-year history of CAS.

Documents show Canas appealed under a "right to a fair hearing", and felt CAS had not considered his arguments. Several of the 34 current and former Essendon players believe CAS did not take into account their individual arguments, with the case of one player – who said in evidence his injections had stopped well before there was any evidence of thymosin beta-4 at Essendon – potentially of particular interest in any appeal.

In the Canas case, CAS arbitrators had ruled that he ingested the diuretic accidentally but was still responsible for knowing what was in the medication – a key element of the WADA code. The panel reduced the suspension to 15 months and restored some of Canas' money and rankings points.

However, the Swiss Federal Court later found that Canas had "submitted a number of alternative arguments to the CAS, in case the latter rejected his principal claim that he had not committed any fault when taking the disputed medication".

"Supposing that they had been deemed well-founded, these alternative arguments were liable to change the outcome of the dispute, since they suggested that no sanction at all should be imposed against the appellant. They could not therefore be considered irrelevant, whatever the respondent may say," the tribunal documents state.

"It appears from these considerations that the right to a fair hearing was infringed by the CAS."

While it was a win for Canas, it took from June 2005 to March 2007 to clear his name.

Gordon, whose son Patrick has represented Crameri and Prismall, has said that CAS used the findings "that may be pertinent to one player and extrapolates it to all the other 33 players, often with no basis at all."

Fahey took aim at any suggestions of an appeal, declaring the CAS judgment was "very logical and I can't imagine anyone who read that judgment, whether they are a lawyer or not, coming to a different conclusion to the one the tribunal itself came to".

"The 34 players knew what they were doing," Fahey said on SEN.

"They actually signed a statutory declaration. They took an oath which carries a criminal penalty for failure."

Peter Jess, the manager of former Bomber Nathan Lovett-Murray, one of the suspended players, said he endorsed Gordon's move.

"We would definitely back that. Not only he is right, he is absolutely right," Jess said.

"I thought the CAS decision was flawed because of those matters – CAS went for the one size fits all. It's quite clear some players were very badly treated. We would support and encourage an appeal."

The AFL Players Association is also weighing up whether to appeal, either to the Swiss Federal Tribunal, or the NSW Supreme Court, as the CAS hearing was held in Sydney.

If an injunction was lodged, it would likely be after February 10 but before the AFL home-and-away season begins on Thursday, March 24.



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...ppeal-case-20160125-gmdku7.html#ixzz3yIx9mSU1
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

 

[60sbomber]

Yes - only 21 players were tested out of the 34. Out of that 21 remaining more than half were tested before the thymosin program commenced so they couldn't possibly list something they hadn't received. Of the remaining 5 or 6 that were tested after receiving thymosin they should have listed it.

However my understanding is players believed ASADA would receive the club documented supplements listed and they had to inform them of anything they had taken outside this.

It's a pretty silly system if ASADA expect athletes to remember off the top of their head (coming off the training track) everything they took over a period of time.

The instructions on the form apparently tell players that it is in their best interests to disclose anything they have taken in the preceding 7 days if it might cause an elevated test result for a banned substance. That is all. No requirement to declare anything. Just an advice to declare anything that they think might cause an elevated reading, in their own best interests.
The players pretty much ignored it. And fair enough, since they thought they were taking only legal supplements that would not cause an elevated reading.

Whatever reasons the players gave to CAS for not declaring anything, CAS said in their judgement that they didn't think they were "reliable", or words to the effect that they were unimpressed that they were telling the truth, and that they thought it was part of the concealment that contributed to them not getting a no fault or negligence discount.
Again, a big leap from CAS. The players fail to do something they weren't required to do, and which could be understood if you put yourself in the players' position, and CAS takes the most cynical interpretation of it they can.

 

[Doss]

No opposition posters.

However, the links that might be pertinent for people to peruse and draw their own conclusions from:

https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada_doping_control_form_v7.pdf - 2015 form
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/wada_doping_control_form_v6.pdf - 2014 form
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada_dco_toolkit_v3_full_en.pdf
https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/world-anti-doping-program/doping-control-form

 

[ManWithNoName]

Personally think this is players best route if they decide on Swiss appeal, the fact CAS did not address each player's case separately.

Did the players not agree they all wanted to be treated together?

 

[JayDon]

Is it just me are you also hearing commentators and others starting to lean our way in how much of an injustice this saga has been. Gazey just now on SEN with some support from Andrew Maher. It was in reference as to weather Jobe loses brownlow but moved across whole determination. The once lawyer for the AFL. The ex-Melbourne player who is a lawyer also? Neil Balme etc.

Have the AFL been slapped in the face by WADA for messing around in the process of ASADA (I think I read something of the sort on here)? We happen to be the sacrificial lamb. It could have been Melbourne just to mention one other team.

I think they have to appeal.

 

[TheBrightSide]

Is it just me are you also hearing commentators and others starting to lean our way in how much of an injustice this saga has been. Gazey just now on SEN with some support from Andrew Maher. It was in reference as to weather Jobe loses brownlow but moved across whole determination. The once lawyer for the AFL. The ex-Melbourne player who is a lawyer also? Neil Balme etc.

Have the AFL been slapped in the face by WADA for messing around in the process of ASADA (I think I read something of the sort on here)? We happen to be the sacrificial lamb. It could have been Melbourne just to mention one other team.

I think they have to appeal.

We need a little more support for the boys, especially with the likes of Fahey implying our players intentionally cheated. For not filling out forms correctly, to being "secretive" drug cheats is a huge leap to make, which looks pretty bad for us.
Wada and Asada sure is full of pricks.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Asada and Wada can suck a bag of dicks.

 

[Doss]

Boys and their decks.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

The head honchos at Wada are probably cracking open bottles of champagne and celebrating.

campaigners.

 

[Doss]

You seem determined to think of these things purely to make yourself angry.

Don't do it to yourself, mate.

 

[scottmclaren]

There's a lot of talk on other boards that if we qualify for pick one this year due to the sanctions that we shouldn't get it because we would benefit from our sanctions rather than being punished....

Where would it stop? This is just another cry for more sanctions by blood thirsty vultures. If more picks are removed / moved and we finish bottom in 2017..18 etc, do we also get those picks removed?

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

You seem determined to think of these things purely to make yourself angry.

Don't do it to yourself, mate.

Cant help it they destroyed the one thing I love.

I look at Essendon now like it's a massive debris field and I'm walking through trying to find the pieces.

 

[Doss]

The club is still here and so are many of the players.

Chin up.

And yes, you can help it. Just think of something else for a while.

 

[Harlequin]

BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!! the pieces are all there and the Club is still there.

It's tough at the moment and this season could be the year from hell, but just sit back and enjoy it for what it is

 

[ezard15]

Cant help it they destroyed the one thing I love.

I look at Essendon now like it's a massive debris field and I'm walking through trying to find the pieces.

know how you feel.

Luckily for me everything else in life is falling into place at exactly the same time.

Realistically there are more important things in life.

Plus. there might be some positives if we get the 12 back next year

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Thanks Doss,Harlequin.