No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

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rines said:
I love that the AFLPA can issue a statement, supported by the players, that clearly states that NONE will be taking a deal... and yet one opinion in one puff piece and everyone is convinced a deal is imminent.
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what?

ah 99% of people have concluded he is probably talking rubbish but sure whatever
 

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Ben the Gooner said:
That's not a new quote is it?
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dunno, I wouldn't watch that show if it was the last show on earth with a special episode containing exclusive instructions about how to survive the apocalypse; just going off what was posted above
 
rines said:
Exactly.. you can get as pissed at Dank as you like. but he has stated all along that he will clear his name in a proper court.. so far ASADA haven't even taken it to an ADRVP.. so he hasn't defended himself or the players.. what else should he do?

How can he 'clear' the players.. when no ONE knows what the evidence is.. if they even have any.

This is the whole problem with this media saga.. right now the players haven't even been charged with an offence.. they have simply been asked to state anything that would help ASADA determine if they should be charged.

The Cart is about 6 months ahead of the horse and that is why the problems are arising.. right now the players haven't had to defend anything.. because they haven't been charged with anything.

The SCN's were literally as vague as "we believe that at some time in early 2012, as part of the club wide supplement program, you were injected with a banned substance TB4." I mean what can you respond with.. other than "no, I wasn't"

Right now they haven't even given any players the times and dates they think these 'injections' occurred.. or how many or how long or how much.. or even WHY they believe they did.. the whole thing is a shambles..
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by giving his "evidence" to the players to answer the ****ing SCNs!

The proper forum is NOT a court, it is by the established anti doping procedure signed on to by Australia and the AFL and the players and even Dank when he became an employee of the ****ing AFL.

Stop defending him. The guy either can wrap it up or he can't, and if he can I'd like to know why the **** he has strung the club out over 2 years instead of providing the alleged evidence. And him having his panties in a bunch about not being respected by ASADA is not a good excuse. It is piss poor!
 
Lance Uppercut said:
dunno, I wouldn't watch that show if it was the last show on earth with a special episode containing exclusive instructions about how to survive the apocalypse; just going off what was posted above
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Yeah likewise, so I wouldn't know for sure, but if he'd said it Monday/it was reported Monday one of the suckers for punishment who watch the show would have surely mentioned it before now.

Either way, if it is a recent quote, I completely agree - shit or get off the pot.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
dunno, I wouldn't watch that show if it was the last show on earth with a special episode containing exclusive instructions about how to survive the apocalypse; just going off what was posted above
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That quote's from Footy Classified. The FC logo in the corner.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
The guy either can wrap it up or he can't, and if he can I'd like to know why the **** he has strung the club out over 2 years instead of providing the alleged evidence. And him having his panties in a bunch about not being respected by ASADA is not a good excuse. It is piss poor!
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This is the crux of it imo. Sure, until the SCNs were sent we didn't know what we'd be charged with, but he now knows and has a chance to put the ****ing thing to bed once and for all.
 
Pweter said:
Pretty proud to say I didn't recognise the logo.
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Well I've never watched the show but seeing an FC logo and realising it means Footy Classified isn't exactly detective work on a par with Batman.
 

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Pweter said:
This is the crux of it imo. Sure, until the SCNs were sent we didn't know what we'd be charged with, but he now knows and has a chance to put the ******* thing to bed once and for all.
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What do you want him to do? Seriously.. he has stated on more than one occassion that he didn't give the players TB4. He has stated on multiple occassions the program was safe, legal and appropriate. He has answered questions put to him by the ACCC. He has agreed to respond to the SCN but ASADA haven't proceeded. ASADA haven't asked him for an interview. Ziggy didn't ask him for an interview.

I am dead serious.. what do you want him to do? He has the same 'evidence' as the club.. the spreadsheets, invoices and his understanding of what was given to the players.

I'm not defending the guy.. he put this club in the shit because he was scamming medicare etc etc and we got caught up in it.. but seriously he has stated time and time again that nothing banned was given.. he has stated time and time again that he will defend any action against him.. but ASADA have REFUSED to even question him.. let alone prosecute him.. so what can he do???

Your wife is dead, the media speculate you killed her, you state you didn't kill her, the police indicate that you are a 'person of interest', you declare you are innocent, the Police never question you, the Police never charge you... you keep insistenting during every public forum that you are innocent and will prove that in court if required.. what the hell else are you meant to do????

Dank can't take himself to court on doping charges.. he really can't..
 
ManWithNoName said:
Well I've never watched the show but seeing an FC logo and realising it means Footy Classified isn't exactly detective work on a par with Batman.
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Oh, I thought that logo said "load of opinionated wank inside".

My mistake. That and I obviously ain't smart enough to see a red rectangle with a broken C partially covering it and think it looks like an F (insert my "simple country boy" comment here).
 
Pweter said:
Oh, I thought that logo said "load of opinionated wank inside".

My mistake. That and I obviously ain't smart enough to see a red rectangle with a broken C partially covering it and think it looks like an F (insert my "simple country boy" comment here).
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Ah well, if I'm Batman you can be Martian Manhunter.
 
Pweter said:
Oh, I thought that logo said "load of opinionated wank inside".

My mistake. That and I obviously ain't smart enough to see a red rectangle with a broken C partially covering it and think it looks like an F (insert my "simple country boy" comment here).
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i've had 30 standards since 8am and i must admit it gave me some grief and i even watched the show on monday night and before anyone shoots me down by watched it i mean i was hoping to get a look at those nutribullet blenders on TVSN but was too full to realise i was on channel 9
 
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ManWithNoName said:
If Hird didn't devise the program, why was he asking ASADA about certain drugs? Why was he receiving reports about the effectiveness of drugs? Why was Hird having meetings with Robinson and Dank telling them how they'll "turn this club around"?
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When did Hird ask ASADA about certain drugs? Are we talking prior to 2013? Or are you referring to the infamous Clothier AFL meeting in which Hird (allegedly) asked about peptides?

Regardless, if Hird was asking ASADA/AFL about what certain drugs were then how would this suggest he devised the program? It would suggest he is almost the last person who would have devised the program if he didn't know what the drugs in the intervention were or how they worked.

Not sure why Hird, as the senior coach wouldn't want updates/information from the sports science department about player recovery. Not sure how you think, in general terms, two employees having a discussion about a project means employee A manages the work for employee B. Surely it's more likely that the work employee B does affects employee A, therefore discussions need to be had.

ManWithNoName said:
Why did Hird receive the email from Robinson about how the stuff should be run by Reid? Why did Hamilton nor Corcoran receive that email? Why was Hird talking to Corcoran so directly about a program he (Hird) had no involvement in? ("Understand about the injecting and don't want to push the boundaries...") Why did Hird, having been warned several times about these substances not even think to ask a question? "Reidy's stopped everything which is getting frustrating". Reid only approved AOD, yet there were three other substances Hird knew about. Why?
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Hird received the email because Hird asked Robinson to write it. Hird was not the only recipient. Not sure what your point is here. Hird taking action based on concerns from Reid does not prove Hird devised or ran the program. Reid's letter was address to Hamilton/Hird, but Hamilton did nothing about it. Hird, with concern for his players and a close relationship with Reid cared enough to make sure those responsible (ie primarily Robinson) wrote down a strict guideline for Robinson/Dank/Reid to work by (This guideline had been in place verbally since the very beginning and was re-iterated in writing due to Reid's concerns). You would note that in the guidelines Hird suggested, Hird is not listed in the loop, which would be strange if he really did devise or manage the program.

Regarding text messages, it's easy to have several differing points of view without the context which we were (most likely deliberately) not given.

ManWithNoName said:
And I said apparently mistaken belief. Do you see any other clubs being investigated? I don't.
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Aurora Andruska has already admitted another club being investigated in 2011 before us. Dank worked for us and he was being investigated by the ACC which made Essendon the obvious target to send a warning to all clubs. Do you honestly believe the AFL would be happy with more than one club being thoroughly investigated in a public forum when they are concerned with the image of the game?

ManWithNoName said:
The reputation of our club has been tarnished by all of the above and much more. That all stems back to the program Hird devised with others and failed to oversee adaquetly. Should he have been responsible for all this? Probably not. Hence the hiring of Neil Craig to lesson the roles of the coach. But the fact is he was. And at some point he needs to be held responsible for the mess the club is now in as a result of it.
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Again Hird did not devise the program, I refer to Bruce Francis who has nicely summed up the events leading and including the 2011/12 supplements intervention.

Bruce Francis said:
To assess Hird’s responsibilities it is important to know the background to what happened in 2011 and 2012:

* According to Robson, in general discussions, he, Evans, Hamilton, Hird, Corcoran and Thompson agreed that Essendon had to change its approach to the high performance unit and training. They were particularly concerned with soft tissue injuries. The high performance coach resigned in June 2011, which gave the club an opportunity to adopt a more scientific approach;

* One hundred people applied for the job, 12 were short-listed and three were approached. The current Port Adelaide high performance coach was their target. As it transpires two of the three had other commitments and the third was ruled out.

Robinson wasn’t involved at that stage;

* Robinson phoned Thompson and expressed an interest in returning to Melbourne;

* Robinson was offered the job and insisted on bringing three people with him, including Stephen Dank;

* During general discussions about the supplementation program, Hird insisted that it had to be WADA compliant and that Dr Reid had the final say on what substances could be administered;

* The physios and conditioners reported to Dr Reid. Dr Reid reported to Robinson who was the high performance coach and Robinson reported to the general manager – football operations, Paul Hamilton. Dank was an outside consultant and liaised with Dr Reid, Robinson and Hamilton;

* Hird, I suspect, like most senior coaches, didn’t know one substance from another. Why would he, given he didn’t do medicine or science? As far as he was concerned, if a substance weren’t WADA prohibited, and if Dr Reid thought it would benefit the players, he was comfortable with its use. Most people have faith in their doctor. Hird was no exception;

* On the first day of 2012 pre-season training, Dr Reid discovered Robinson had given a number of players a substance which he hadn’t approved. He immediately phoned the AFL’s medical director, Dr Peter Harcourt, and reported the incident. Dr Harcourt obviously didn’t think it was a problem because he apparently didn’t report it to anyone;

* In the first week after the 2011-2012 Christmas break, Dr Reid once again discovered Robinson/Dank had administered supplements without his permission. Dr Reid spoke to Hird who suggested he report it to his department head, Hamilton;

* Hamilton sent a memo to CEO Ian Robson informing him of the transgressions. Hamilton chastised Robinson the next day;

* Robinson drew up a new set of procedures for the supplementation program. All substances still had to be WADA permitted and approved by Dr Reid;

* The players were told about the new procedures and the vast majority signed consent forms;

* On 2 February 2012, Hamilton sent the following email to Dank, Robinson & Oliver: “Could you please provide me with all paperwork of progress with our supplement program. It is imperative that I keep a file of all approvals that we have received and all correspondence on this matter with players, staff etc.” Although Stevie Wonder could see Hamilton was responsible for the supplementation program, you apparently can’t, or refuse to;

* Dank/Robinson subsequently breached protocol at least three more times. Although Thompson and Hird were on a different branch of the organisation structure, and had no authority to interfere, each time they became aware of the breaches, they spoke to Dank and/or Robinson and reported it to Hamilton. Thompson delivered blistering attacks on the three occasions;

* At a meeting at Hird’s home in July 2012, Dr Reid asked Evans and Robson to terminate Robinson’s employment. Hird and Corcoran were present and supported Dr Reid. Evans and Robson refused on the grounds the club couldn’t afford the payment.
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Finally, even if Hird did devise the intervention (which all evidence I see points to the fact he was involved in discussions but he didn't devise it), he wanted it to be safe, legal and doctor approved. Not being the manager of the sports science department, what did he do wrong? If anything it seems he shouldn't have ever said anything about it to anyone or tried to intervene when Reid had concerns because people will misconstrue that as responsibility.
 
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rines said:
What do you want him to do? Seriously.. he has stated on more than one occassion that he didn't give the players TB4. He has stated on multiple occassions the program was safe, legal and appropriate. He has answered questions put to him by the ACCC. He has agreed to respond to the SCN but ASADA haven't proceeded. ASADA haven't asked him for an interview. Ziggy didn't ask him for an interview.

I am dead serious.. what do you want him to do? He has the same 'evidence' as the club.. the spreadsheets, invoices and his understanding of what was given to the players.

I'm not defending the guy.. he put this club in the shit because he was scamming medicare etc etc and we got caught up in it.. but seriously he has stated time and time again that nothing banned was given.. he has stated time and time again that he will defend any action against him.. but ASADA have REFUSED to even question him.. let alone prosecute him.. so what can he do???

Your wife is dead, the media speculate you killed her, you state you didn't kill her, the police indicate that you are a 'person of interest', you declare you are innocent, the Police never question you, the Police never charge you... you keep insistenting during every public forum that you are innocent and will prove that in court if required.. what the hell else are you meant to do????

Dank can't take himself to court on doping charges.. he really can't..
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He has stated shitloads. I know people that talk shit and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could kick them even though they can be quite compelling. I'm not saying Dank is like this but I also have nothing to suggest otherwise.

If the bloke has half a conscience he could've come forth months ago and said "what do you need to know" to the players. Instead he's sat back and watched them go through hell.

If the club can't prove innocence with their records, then Dank must have something the club doesn't. He could've provided this to the club but has chosen not to.
 
Pweter said:
He has stated shitloads. I know people that talk shit and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could kick them even though they can be quite compelling. I'm not saying Dank is like this but I also have nothing to suggest otherwise.

If the bloke has half a conscience he could've come forth months ago and said "what do you need to know" to the players. Instead he's sat back and watched them go through hell.

If the club can't prove innocence with their records, then Dank must have something the club doesn't. He could've provided this to the club but has chosen not to.
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I'm not really defending Dank or saying I trust him, however if I saw the kind of crap that went down when Essendon co-operated with ASADA and the AFL I would distance myself from talking to them for as long as possible too, waiting for the right time when it is an independent body hearing what I had to say.
 
Mr Mojo Risin said:
I'm not really defending Dank or saying I trust him, however if I saw the kind of crap that went down when Essendon co-operated with ASADA and the AFL I would distance myself from talking to them for as long as possible too, waiting for the right time when it is an independent body hearing what I had to say.
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I think it shows a complete lack of respect for the players.
 
Mr Mojo Risin said:
I'm not really defending Dank or saying I trust him, however if I saw the kind of crap that went down when Essendon co-operated with ASADA and the AFL I would distance myself from talking to them for as long as possible too, waiting for the right time when it is an independent body hearing what I had to say.
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Is Dank waiting for players to be put on the Register of Findings by the ADRVP, then they appeal this (to the AAT / etc.), then Dank comes in from the side to save the day (in court) ?
 
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