Changes For Melbourne

[Power Pete]

Lol at Hitchcock out. The guy kicked as many goals in a quarter as any other player did for the match and you want to bring in Marlon Motlop ahead of him?

I'm only doing a Primus... LOL! Don't really care who plays now. We might as well give them all a go... you know the ones that haven't played as yet.

 

[PRDPower]

I'm sorry everyone, but this forum makes me tired.

Too many people crying for a quick fix to a problem that is not instantly fixable.

Three weeks of Surjan in the side and there will be calls to drop him. Some will say 'at least he has a crack' - so does Matty Thomas, but half the time these blogs are filled with 'DROP MATTY THOMAS' calls.

Next year - O'Shea, Broadbent, Jacobs and Pittard to come back with supreme confidence. There will be another 'youngest' group, and these guys will be somewhat young mentors to them. Based upon adolescent psychology, this move up in 'ranking' within the club will most likely lead to substantial improvement (plus the benefits of a whole pre-season.)

In terms of next week, I don't really mind. Playing in Darwin means we have to bring back Motlop. Phillips if fit.

 

[oporto]

I'm sorry everyone, but this forum makes me tired.

Too many people crying for a quick fix to a problem that is not instantly fixable.

Three weeks of Surjan in the side and there will be calls to drop him. Some will say 'at least he has a crack' - so does Matty Thomas, but half the time these blogs are filled with 'DROP MATTY THOMAS' calls.

Next year - O'Shea, Broadbent, Jacobs and Pittard to come back with supreme confidence. There will be another 'youngest' group, and these guys will be somewhat young mentors to them. Based upon adolescent psychology, this move up in 'ranking' within the club will most likely lead to substantial improvement (plus the benefits of a whole pre-season.)

In terms of next week, I don't really mind. Playing in Darwin means we have to bring back Motlop. Phillips if fit.

1. Playing an All Australian calibre defender as a defender not a forward isn't a quick fix. That's called common sense irrespective of the form debate
2. Bringing that defender back into the side then releases one of the so called midfielders (which we realistically know really means flanker) we drafted in 2010 to play in a midfield position
3. Adolescent psychology, how about the psychology of not coping with roles thrust upon you before your development calls for it.

People need to get over comparing our position to West Coast's or Melbourne's and so on and so forth. West Coast is a financial juggernaut and equips their players with the best of everything. Throughout their history they've rebuilt in record fashion.

Stop putting hope in the argument "they're young they'll come good". We'll end up like Richmond of the last 30 years before you know it.

There's no confidence like winning confidence. That's the best thing any coach can do for his chargers

 

[Moore26]

Out:ebert, Rodan,
in: Young, Salopek

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Out:ebert, Rodan,
in: Young, Salopek

Now I've always found your selections loopy, but c'mon now.

Surjan:

26 disposals
2 marks
2 tackles
3 frees for
0 frees against
1 goal
2 behinds

Salopek:

14 disposals
7 marks
1 tackle
1 free for
3 frees against
0 goals
0 behinds

...so let's bring in Salopek?

 

[Powerstufff]

I'm struggling to care enough to post.
I'm over Kane and Ebo. I don't understand how we are turning players like Boadbent and Jacobs to poo rather than seeing improvement. I don't even see why D Stewart and Salter are in the team, what weird intuitive leap is responsible for that? I could live with giving Surj and Mots (as a defender) anothet go. Not Salopek, I'm over him too.
To finish on a +ve note well done newbies O'Shea, Lobbe, Banner and Hitchcock; and well done Chad. All should be back for Darwin.

 

[Moore26]

Now I've always found your selections loopy, but c'mon now.

Surjan:

26 disposals
2 marks
2 tackles
3 frees for
0 frees against
1 goal
2 behinds

Salopek:

14 disposals
7 marks
1 tackle
1 free for
3 frees against
0 goals
0 behinds

...so let's bring in Salopek?

You know what? You............are RIGHT
I forgot bernie how poor logan was against the saints, drop him and bring in the surjan its an emergency . Oh and salopek

 

[Waspy79]

It's almost as if he and the other handful are being punished for not stepping back up to the very good/elite level as expected, while other inferior players can plod around with impunity regardless of readiness/form.

The problems begin when the playing group divides along the lines of Matthew's pets and Matthew's mutts - exacerbated by the utter inconsistency and confusion of whatever the actual selection policy is intended to be.

Nobody can say with a straight face that Jacob Surjan isn't genuinely in our best 18, and yet he's found himself exiled at the Magpies for the bulk of the year with notable teasing exceptions where he's been in and out without an opportunity to bed back in. Has been banging the door down for a month when we've been woeful and still can't get back in.

In contrast, Salter comes back off injury and rubbish SANFL form and gets a gold pass due to being 191cms. Never mind he's not a defender's stingy arseh*le, he's in because we apparently must have a bogstandard third defender regardless.

Then there's Salopek. Got rocked in the preseason when reportedly flying and despite a couple of so-so games where he still got a fair bit of it, finds himself in the wilderness of Glenelg, or 'Glenelg'. Sure, his tank was depleted and needed to be revived, but then explain Rodan's near instant returns from injury and the subsequent tolerance of his underwhelming anonymity? Or Broadbent's increasingly lame duck displays bar one good game?

Daniel Motlop. In one week, plays OK, then has a quiet one on the end of a shellacked midfield, is trialled as a HBF where he does surprisingly well and nope, back at Prospect. Brett Ebert comes in off of so-so SANFL form, is poor, one-dimensional and stays in.

Then there's Pearce and Kornes.

One is sent to Sturt to be sent a message, is largely ordinary and comes back for good despite none of the linebreaking, goalsense or explosiveness that makes him relevant and the other spent a week at WWT2's where absolutely nothing of value could be gleaned - and if anything he's worse.

All the while 10 other plodders go around each week adding nothing to the team.

Is it any wonder confidence is shot and no-one seems to give a shit?

I've just googled pictures of Nicole Scherzinger to make me feel better after reading this sad truth. However the changes are more reflective of our lack of quality players and their lack of consistency than of the inconsistency in selection decisions. At least Primus is trying things.

 

[Powerstufff]

I've just googled pictures of Nicole Scherzinger to make me feel better after reading this sad truth. However the changes are more reflective of our lack of quality players and their lack of consistency than of the inconsistency in selection decisions. At least Primus is trying things.

You've quoted tribey's entire (very good) post. What part of it are you referencing?

 

[Peck]

What on earth is with people wanting older players brought in so much? If Surjan and Chad had been left in all year people would be going mad wanting them dropped!

Surjan might get a chance if he keeps playing well, but why on earth would we bring him in for a forward? We might drop Salter and bring him in, but as far as I'm concerned that would just be pointless as this should be Salter's last year on our list if we don't think he is good enough so we may as well find out by giving him some actual time in the backline rather than assuming he is crap after two games there (neither of which I thought were particularly bad, but many disagree).

I'd be happy with dropping both Jackson Trengove and Daniel Stewart and bringing in Brogan and Surjan though.

 

[Portology]

What on earth is with people wanting older players brought in so much? If Surjan and Chad had been left in all year people would be going mad wanting them dropped!

Surjan might get a chance if he keeps playing well, but why on earth would we bring him in for a forward? We might drop Salter and bring him in, but as far as I'm concerned that would just be pointless as this should be Salter's last year on our list if we don't think he is good enough so we may as well find out by giving him some actual time in the backline rather than assuming he is crap after two games there (neither of which I thought were particularly bad, but many disagree).

I'd be happy with dropping both Jackson Trengove and Daniel Stewart and bringing in Brogan and Surjan though.

I didn't mind Chad's "defensive forward" role on Fisher. Surjan in that role as he did earlier in the year it would be all down to the right matchup (who?).

I think Rodan and Ebert will drop out of the 22 with Surj and Phillips IN. Hitchy & Banner were ok IMO.

I'd rather see Trengove's arm on ice before the bye than risk more damage this weekend. But who the hell is there to come in ??

Would like to see Brogan or Redden get a run in place of Stewart, I think it will be Brogan if he's fit, with the bye to recover afterwards.

Salter has looked out of the game in defence, not so much "hapless Pettigrew out of the game" but more "not quite in the right place at the right time" out of the game. Three games at least. HAVE to give him another game and then want to see him play in the SANFL instead of take the bye.

 

[TheSuper6of06]

i think if you look at the team that played on the weekend
we're not actually playing that "young-a-team"
our team consists of alot middle-agers

if you were to assess our list to this stage you'd conclude that it is in state of disrepair

tbh
-i still dont know if Salter can make it as a forward but i know he is not a backman.
-we kinda know what we'll get from our middle-agers (as their form has shown from 2008 to now ie over the past 3 years) so we do need to persist with kids as that is the only perceivable upward-trend (hopeful) change from 2012 onwards
-i feel a change in preseason fitness direction would benefit the players as we hv shown this year to gas out at times while other players would benefit from bulking up (ie D.Stewart)
-our greatest deficiency atm is our midfield. we get smashed here weekly. our defense is under constant pressure and our forwards don't get fed. in time maybe jacobs, moore and pittard will add to hartlett and boak. but atm the quality is just not there. maybe a drafting strategy that involves drafting pure midfielders would be beneficial.
-we need to know the state of our playing list, we need to know who will make it and be AFL standard. atm it feels like that less a handful will.

 

[DonDraper]

My issue with Salter is that I just want him playing up the other end of the ground. When he is 1 on 1 with a forward he just gets beaten, and it's sapping his confidence. Trengove should be alright to play on Saturday which is good. Who do you think will go to Watts? Salter?

 

[DonDraper]

Re: Port v St Kilda gameday

Taken from Melbourne's board, this is their supposed forward line:

HF: Scully, Watts, Howe
F: Jurrah, Jamar, Green

Logan to take Green? Or maybe Salter? Trengove will probably get Watts instead of Salter, leaving Chaplin to take their resting Jamar/Martin. Green could tear us apart on Saturday night

 

[S.Patrol.G]

i think if you look at the team that played on the weekend
we're not actually playing that "young-a-team"
our team consists of alot middle-agers

if you were to assess our list to this stage you'd conclude that it is in state of disrepair

tbh
-i still dont know if Salter can make it as a forward but i know he is not a backman.
-we kinda know what we'll get from our middle-agers (as their form has shown from 2008 to now ie over the past 3 years) so we do need to persist with kids as that is the only perceivable upward-trend (hopeful) change from 2012 onwards
-i feel a change in preseason fitness direction would benefit the players as we hv shown this year to gas out at times while other players would benefit from bulking up (ie D.Stewart)
-our greatest deficiency atm is our midfield. we get smashed here weekly. our defense is under constant pressure and our forwards don't get fed. in time maybe jacobs, moore and pittard will add to hartlett and boak. but atm the quality is just not there. maybe a drafting strategy that involves drafting pure midfielders would be beneficial.
-we need to know the state of our playing list, we need to know who will make it and be AFL standard. atm it feels like that less a handful will.

So true. It's so, so poor. Their disposal is poor. Their spread from a contest is awful- offensively and defensively. Their positioning at stoppages is reactive. Blocking, protection and sheparding for each other is near on non-existent. As for any leg speed- pft!

As for changes.

Out- Ebert, Rodan, K.Cornes, D.Stewart

In- Butcher (could he be worse than Stewart?), Don't know the rest yet.

 

[FishingRick04]

i think if you look at the team that played on the weekend
we're not actually playing that "young-a-team"
our team consists of alot middle-agers

if you were to assess our list to this stage you'd conclude that it is in state of disrepair

tbh
-i still dont know if Salter can make it as a forward but i know he is not a backman.
-we kinda know what we'll get from our middle-agers (as their form has shown from 2008 to now ie over the past 3 years) so we do need to persist with kids as that is the only perceivable upward-trend (hopeful) change from 2012 onwards
-i feel a change in preseason fitness direction would benefit the players as we hv shown this year to gas out at times while other players would benefit from bulking up (ie D.Stewart)
-our greatest deficiency atm is our midfield. we get smashed here weekly. our defense is under constant pressure and our forwards don't get fed. in time maybe jacobs, moore and pittard will add to hartlett and boak. but atm the quality is just not there. maybe a drafting strategy that involves drafting pure midfielders would be beneficial.
-we need to know the state of our playing list, we need to know who will make it and be AFL standard. atm it feels like that less a handful will.

Look at young in terms of games played.

That may make it look different

 

[Waspy79]

You've quoted tribey's entire (very good) post. What part of it are you referencing?

Clearly all of it, such is its quality.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Look at young in terms of games played.

That may make it look different

Well taking off the top 2 and bottom 2 (Cornes' bros and Jacobs/Lobbe), the average for games played was 71 games if I'm not mistaken.

How is that young at all?

With Corneseses and Jacobs/Lobbe included, you get 80 games as an average played.

 

[P.A.F.C]

It's almost as if he and the other handful are being punished for not stepping back up to the very good/elite level as expected, while other inferior players can plod around with impunity regardless of readiness/form.

The problems begin when the playing group divides along the lines of Matthew's pets and Matthew's mutts - exacerbated by the utter inconsistency and confusion of whatever the actual selection policy is intended to be.

Nobody can say with a straight face that Jacob Surjan isn't genuinely in our best 18, and yet he's found himself exiled at the Magpies for the bulk of the year with notable teasing exceptions where he's been in and out without an opportunity to bed back in. Has been banging the door down for a month when we've been woeful and still can't get back in.

In contrast, Salter comes back off injury and rubbish SANFL form and gets a gold pass due to being 191cms. Never mind he's not a defender's stingy arseh*le, he's in because we apparently must have a bogstandard third defender regardless.

Then there's Salopek. Got rocked in the preseason when reportedly flying and despite a couple of so-so games where he still got a fair bit of it, finds himself in the wilderness of Glenelg, or 'Glenelg'. Sure, his tank was depleted and needed to be revived, but then explain Rodan's near instant returns from injury and the subsequent tolerance of his underwhelming anonymity? Or Broadbent's increasingly lame duck displays bar one good game?

Daniel Motlop. In one week, plays OK, then has a quiet one on the end of a shellacked midfield, is trialled as a HBF where he does surprisingly well and nope, back at Prospect. Brett Ebert comes in off of so-so SANFL form, is poor, one-dimensional and stays in.

Then there's Pearce and Kornes.

One is sent to Sturt to be sent a message, is largely ordinary and comes back for good despite none of the linebreaking, goalsense or explosiveness that makes him relevant and the other spent a week at WWT2's where absolutely nothing of value could be gleaned - and if anything he's worse.

All the while 10 other plodders go around each week adding nothing to the team.

Is it any wonder confidence is shot and no-one seems to give a shit?

Since when has Surj been banging down the door for a month?

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Since when has Surj been banging down the door for a month?

On the weekend, he got 26 disposals and 1 goal 2 behinds.

From the SANFL wrap for the previous two weeks:

Jacob Surjan (for Magpies vs Panthers)
A really strong first half by Surj with his defensive pursuits well up, showing a change in mindset that’s a real credit to him. When he was fatigued in the second half that dropped off a bit, with his fitness something that he continues to work on.

He was actually one of the better players in this game, I'll update with stats if I can find them.

Edit, here they are:

20 disposals
3 marks
5 tackles
1 behind
2 I50s
1 R50
3 clearances (most for Port)
3 frees for
0 frees against

Jacob Surjan (for Magpies vs Bloods)
This was one of Surj’s better games for a while. He played predominantly an on-ball role for Port, and his grunt and intensity around the stoppage was more like the ‘old’ Surj that we want to see. He had around 27 possessions and a number of clearances.

Annnnd for this one:

27 disposals
6 marks
2 tackles
5 I50
1 R50
4 Clearances
1 free for
2 frees against

And was named travelling emergency the previous week I believe.

Basically, the SANFL wrap is there to tell you who they're likely to pick and downplay the performances of players they're not gonna pick. He was great the last three weeks and had done enough to be the travelling emergency the previous week.

 

[Powerade 08]

Since when has Surj been banging down the door for a month?

Getting reasonable stats in some SANFL game that nobody actually bothers to watch = banging the door down

Edit: See above.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Getting reasonable stats in some SANFL game that nobody actually bothers to watch = banging the door down

Edit: See above.

Yeah no one bothers to watch Port Adelaide games

Surj is too old for Powerade 08, he likes em youuuung.

 

[Powerade 08]

i think if you look at the team that played on the weekend
we're not actually playing that "young-a-team"
our team consists of alot middle-agers

Yea but a lot of those older guys don't play a big role for us. Kane or Ebert or Rodan or Chad don't give us much anymore.

Our good players haven't played enough games though.

Hartlett hasn't played many
Gray has 60 something
Boak

Yeah no one bothers to watch Port Adelaide games

Surj is too old for Powerade 08, he likes em youuuung.

The people who have seen him play have said he looks slow and not confident. Coming off a serious injury so thats understandable.

I want surj in this week and wanted him in last week. I don't think we NEED to bring him in or that he is going to fix any problems though because he clearly isn't the same player atm.

 

[tealpower]

Yea but a lot of those older guys don't play a big role for us. Kane or Ebert or Rodan or Chad don't give us much anymore.

Our good players haven't played enough games though.

Hartlett hasn't played many
Gray has 60 something
Boak

The people who have seen him play have said he looks slow and not confident. Coming off a serious injury so thats understandable.

I want surj in this week and wanted him in last week. I don't think we NEED to bring him in or that he is going to fix any problems though because he clearly isn't the same player atm.

I'm curious Powerade. Why is it OK to bring young players with spotty or average SANFL performances (if that) straight into the side but it's not reasonable to bring one of our top 3 performers across 2009 & 2010 back into the seniors to find some form?

 

[Waspy79]

Yea but a lot of those older guys don't play a big role for us. Kane or Ebert or Rodan or Chad don't give us much anymore.

Our good players haven't played enough games though.

Hartlett hasn't played many
Gray has 60 something
Boak


The people who have seen him play have said he looks slow and not confident. Coming off a serious injury so thats understandable.

I want surj in this week and wanted him in last week. I don't think we NEED to bring him in or that he is going to fix any problems though because he clearly isn't the same player atm.

We don't have enough good players regardless of how many games they've played. We have to weed out almost the entire core of useless senior players before we can progress.

As for Surj, he's done something wrong beyond just turning up to pre-season a bit out of shape. I think we can make that conclusion now.