Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - GRAND FINAL vs. Brisbane MCG, 2:30pm Sat 30/09

[LuckyLee]

It’s the same argument we’ve been having about structure all year. Effectively it’s a question of two rucks or one.

We still don’t know the answer to that.

A : Kreuger retains our preferred structure but obvious risks selecting him
B : Frampton: good depth as a defender or ruck ( but those skills not really required) so we’d have to evict Howe out of his best position to accomodate
C : Go small: adams if available otherwise bring Noble in, extra weapon against their small forwards, him or Ginni to be sub.

Suspect we will go option C but I have one foot in the camp of option A and think option B is a bad idea.

A then C…..then daylight…..then B.


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[Chrispiesssss]

WHE has been playing defence and spoiling everything. He could play a similar role to Howe in the forward line. WHE could probably keep up with Andrews on a lead

I’d just play WHE on Andrews and instruct him to never go for a mark in a contested situation. Just spoil the ball.

 

[Jen2310]

We'll know if its Frampton if he trains forward this morning. I can't it being kreuger at all given the last time he played at this level

 

[gouki88]

It's only flipping Tuesday! Argh! Slow week ahead

 

[unplugged]

As much as I actually rate McStay I'm glad we don't have to worry about a player being potentially timid against his old friends and teammates. Like a certain someone in the prelim last year...

 

[Zzorse]

It's only *ing Tuesday! Argh! Slow week ahead

It's still Monday, here !

 

[No SPIN]

And WHE will do what he did heaps of times this year - jump in packs up forward when we don't have any better options - and Frampton isn't a better option. Our structure isn't a series of measurements - it's a series of roles. And Frampton won't play a forward role better than WHE or Howe if they choose to go that way.

I don’t understand how the issue of size is not registering in this debate.
Frampton is 18kg heavier and 18cm taller than WHE, making him far more capable of bringing the ball to ground blocking for team mates and engaging defenders.
These are the critical tall fwd traits, we need to preserve in our structure, that WHE can’t provide.
If either Howe, Cox, Cameron are preferred then Frampton has the flexibility to take their position.
Either way, Frampton logically offers the best option to preserve structure and game plan we’ve used all year.
It’s to late for experimentation.

 

[MoreMoore]

We did win lots of games without McStay, about 10(?). He has been great in the finals, and important to our structure. But a change in structure might also bring out more of Checkers and Jamie - who have both been relatively quiet in September.

Everyone seems to be in fear of Andrews. He’s very good, but he’s just one player. Surely we can work around him, or keep him busy with Checkers, so that Jamie, Bobby or Beau get off the leash?

Our forward line was not really settled until the late rounds. Yet we finished with the highest percentage and 11 games where we kicked 100 points or more. That seems to have been forgotten in the panic around McStay. We are no slouches up forward, and with our offensive plays.

I think bringing in Ginni for a whole game will help
He pulls goals out of his arse and is unpredictable and creative
He looked influential when he came on in a stodgy game but the rest of the team was tired and trying to defend
A full game should find two or three goals and take heat off Elliott
Lipinski out and Adams to sub
Frampton down back and Howe up forward
If it’s not working then Frampton Cox and Cameron can rotate ruck/forward and sub out the worst performer and inject a fired up Adams into the game

 

[adamov13]

Here's to hoping Naicos has a massive chip on his shoulder on Saturday following how last night went for him.

 

[Prexm]

That means Cox and Cameron will have to play the whole game. The minute that either is on the bench, we will be less one tall up forward and as much a two talls down when you consider we’ve had McStay/Cox or McStay/Cameron playing forward at the same time.

I don’t mind a change up with that situation, it could really throw Brisbane out at times. I am confident this is the way we will go so trying to be more confident the way it will play out for us. Think Elliott is really going to be a big key factor in this game.

 

[LuckyLee]

It's only *ing Tuesday! Argh! Slow week ahead

Krueger’s VFL form and impact in the back half of the season got better and better. His exposed form is certainly stronger than when he was selected for Finals last year.

If he plays, Krueger is sure to fearlessly crash packs, mark a few, bring the ball to ground and create some chaos. He’ll make the Lions defenders nervous.

I also love that Krueger has the leg to kick goals from outside F50, which increases our viable scoring zone and helps thin out the Lions defence.

Now is not the time to be ultra conservative and predictable. Gotta risk it for the biscuit!


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[jmac70]

Krueger’s VFL form and impact in the back half of the season got better and better. His exposed form is certainly stronger than when he was selected for Finals last year.

If he plays, Krueger is sure to fearlessly crash packs, mark a few, bring the ball to ground and create some chaos. He’ll make the Lions defenders nervous.

Now is not the time to be ultra conservative and predictable. Gotta risk it for the biscuit!


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Let’s hope it doesn’t become Nightmare on Brunton Avenue.

 

[NMBB]

Well done Nick D - it's obvious the injury cruelled your chances.....

On to omens:

- 1990 - GW 2nd in Brownlow - FLAG

- 2010 - DS 3rd in Brownlow - FLAG

QED

 

[sr36]

I don’t understand how the issue of size is not registering in this debate.
Frampton is 18kg heavier and 18cm taller than WHE, making him far more capable of bringing the ball to ground blocking for team mates and engaging defenders.
These are the critical tall fwd traits, we need to preserve in our structure, that WHE can’t provide.
If either Howe, Cox, Cameron are preferred then Frampton has the flexibility to take their position.
Either way, Frampton logically offers the best option to preserve structure and game plan we’ve used all year.
It’s to late for experimentation.

As Checkers shows, the most critical trait is getting to contests.

Billy has the physical tools to be a gun, it's above the shoulders where he's in strife.

If we really don't want to move Howe forward and don't trust Freddy, I think you're right, with Billy coming in, but to ruck so that we've always got Cox or Cameron forward. FMD. Back to the future. Might need to complete the set by bringing back Callum as a defensive forward. Whose that ****er who fell on McStays leg?

Still think we win though.

 

[RobJD]

I would.

Why make it so easy for the modern midfielder and the oppositions most influential player to do as he pleases.

Adams is currently a caged, hungry animal and if he gets the all clear he ain't going to hold anything back.

They wont see it coming because we "don't tag".

He won't be on Neal as a tag, he'll be standing to Neal's right to give him a shoulder fitness test (just like the Brisbane team did to Nick Riewoldt when he hurt his shoulder and stayed on the ground).

 

[sr36]

We did win lots of games without McStay, about 10(?). He has been great in the finals, and important to our structure. But a change in structure might also bring out more of Checkers and Jamie - who have both been relatively quiet in September.

Everyone seems to be in fear of Andrews. He’s very good, but he’s just one player. Surely we can work around him, or keep him busy with Checkers, so that Jamie, Bobby or Beau get off the leash?

Our forward line was not really settled until the late rounds. Yet we finished with the highest percentage and 11 games where we kicked 100 points or more. That seems to have been forgotten in the panic around McStay. We are no slouches up forward, and with our offensive plays.

It's not really scoring - it's getting a contest - particularly at half forward when they've all pushed up and we just have to bang it long to a contest. The tall structure is more about maintaining field position than directly kicking goals.

 

[JuniorB]

I think bringing in Ginni for a whole game will help
He pulls goals out of his arse and is unpredictable and creative
He looked influential when he came on in a stodgy game but the rest of the team was tired and trying to defend
A full game should find two or three goals and take heat off Elliott
Lipinski out and Adams to sub
Frampton down back and Howe up forward
If it’s not working then Frampton Cox and Cameron can rotate ruck/forward and sub out the worst performer and inject a fired up Adams into the game

I agree.
If we're planning a blistering start, Ginni could easily kick 2 or 3 in the first quarter.
Create chaos and let him go to work.
Our first quarter dominance last week only yielded 2 goals - we'll need more than that.

 

[stormskye]

Carlton went tall in curnow and McKay and pitt and dekoning and Andrews had a field day. Frampton isn’t a forward, he’s proven that. A mistake to pick him if it’s forward. Howe and whe could do better despite being smaller

 

[Kirby]

Howe forward is the answer.

There's no good match up for him in the backline as he struggles on the smalls these days.

 

[Kes1984]

Hoping this is an omen and apologies for sharing in this thread(not sure where it would belong).. Got home from work today and sitting on my front step was this little man…
View attachment 1813601
Was able to walk up to him and pat him. First thought was injured but called the wildlife contact ( made sure they did not support lions before i explained the situation) and they advised based on photos and videos that it was a young one that has just not learnt to fly yet. They told us that leaving him out was a risk as cats could get him and that we needed to get him into a box ( he has water and air holes) and keep him in garage to ensure safety. Apparently this is very common this time of year and that the parents will eventually come back and feed him but is probably 2 days away from flying. We need put him back in the same spot we found him in the morning so parents can find him. So for the next 24-48 hours we are proud foster parents of our first magpie. We will ensure his safety and watch him fly away this week for the ultimate success! His name is Darcy and we already love him! Go pies!!! ️️️️

How's the little maggie going?

Also looks like a female to me. Males are white. Females have this mottled look. I learned that a while back.

 

[sr36]

Carlton went tall in curnow and McKay and pitt and dekoning and Andrews had a field day. Frampton isn’t a forward, he’s proven that. A mistake to pick him if it’s forward. Howe and whe could do better despite being smaller

That's the thing - Andrews would like nothing more than to play on a crap tall.

 

[Vicky Park]

It's not really scoring - it's getting a contest - particularly at half forward when they've all pushed up and we just have to bang it long to a contest. The tall structure is more about maintaining field position than directly kicking goals.

I was also concerned about how often we banged it long to a contest last week. Dan took some good marks, so that will be missed. But I’d prefer that we approached the goal more like we did in our higher scoring wins.

 

[Piewithsauce13]

How's the little maggie going?

Also looks like a female to me. Males are white. Females have this mottled look. I learned that a while back.

Got through the night ok. Currently standing in the sun in our front courtyard and kids are keeping an eye on every 5 mins haha. Hoping parents come back at some point today!

 

[NMBB]

Is McInnes a possible deus ex machina?
a) He has been declared fit.
b) Is a forward (unlike Frampton)
c) Was in better form than Kreuger in VFL at the end of the year, and doesn't get injured as easily
d) He is fast.

Perhaps a plan can be outlined for him to co-ordinate his running with Checkers so that he does present a viable second target, with a view to forcing the ball to ground level even if not marking it.
With him playing, Brisbane can't just focus on shutting down Checkers without worrying about another target. Also, McInnes would provide shock value, which always introduces the possiblity that they underestimate him.

Reef in - kick 6 - Norm Smith - thank your mother for the rabbits!

 

[sr36]

Howe forward is the answer.

There's no good match up for him in the backline as he struggles on the smalls these days.

That's where I'm at too. And it's what we trialled at the end of the season with a decent result. Seems pretty likely to be the way we go.