Strategy Changes & Pre-match Discussion - GRAND FINAL vs. Brisbane MCG, 2:30pm Sat 30/09

[Exambolor]

I see plenty of rational arguments presented here for the inclusion of Krueger or Frampton, and pushing Howe forward. I'm in the Kreuger camp I must say as he has shown more forward craft and more closely resembles our current structure. My views have been swayed by some excellent posts.

Having said that, I can understand the club erring on the side of caution and going with Frampton.

I think we will bring a tall in. When the going gets tough in a GF you need the tall guys who can clunk marks around the ground to give time to set up down the field. Having another runner in my view wont help us.

The fitness of Adams - we will have to wait and see. If he goes out we bring in Johnny F****n Noble. Keeping Ginni as the sub.

Playing at home on the MCG, having almost an extra day break, and knowing it will be warm (not humid like in Brisbane) I think this favours us.

Whilst we are lamenting the loss of McStay, Lions have their own injury worries with Jack Payne who played every game this year (replaced by Gardiner who has only played 3 games), and a huge loss of Ashcroft, although a 1st year player was comfortably inside their best 18 and would have started on GF day

In terms of GF experience 10 of our guys who will run out on Saturday played in the 2018 decider.

For Brisbane GF experience

• Lachie Neale - 2013 Fremantle (lost to Hawthorn)
• Charlie Cameron - 2017 Adelaide (smashed by Richmond power ranger style)
• Andrew Dunkley - (2016 Premiership, and 2020 smashed by Melbourne)

We know GF week and the match itself is like a season within itself. So much scrutiny, hyperbole, and catastrophising of scenarios. Seriously you think McStay was Plugger Lockett and Buddy Franklin in one.

Seen and been to a lot of Grand Finals in my lifetime - this will be my 12th for only 2 flags.

All that being said, we have to absolutely bring our very best. That means high risk / reward footy and fast footy to bring our forward into the mix.

We can do it - I believe we can bring home flag number 16

GO PIES!!!!

I think you mean Josh Dunkley, not his old man lol

 

[Scritchyscroony]

You are completely missing the point- we always played 2 talls, and AJ took McStays role.

If we rotate the rucks through deep FF at all times then we still have your second tall down there.

 

[peter9789]

I think you mean Josh Dunkley, not his old man lol

Fixed

 

[live fast pieyoung]

Is brisbane's defence really that good? Its an interesting question that nobody seems to be asking. I wonder if in hindsight it looks obvious.

I dont believe this narrative that we struggle to score. We just beat the two teams with the best defences. Both defend fantastically.

So I wonder if brisbane really has the chops to slow us down. Meanwhile, we definitely know how to put the clamps on them.

 

[Exambolor]

Is brisbane's defence really that good? Its an interesting question that nobody seems to be asking. I wonder if in hindsight it looks obvious.

I dont believe this narrative that we struggle to score. We just beat the two teams with the best defences. Both defend fantastically.

So I wonder if brisbane really has the chops to slow us down. Meanwhile, we definitely know how to put the clamps on them.

Andrews and Kiddy are the guns in that defence and they need to be stopped, McKenna if let off the leash is dangerous

 

[windchimes]

Doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll end up playing though.

I’d imagine they’d be trialling him there in training this week regardless, keeping our options open and all.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Not sure Frampton is the answer. Hopefully Cox spends more time forward.

I think he can add to our structure. If he occupies Andrews somewhat, he gives us options to swing back or forward with Howe, he’s kicked 7.2 this season and like McStay and Cox he tends to have a no-fuss goal kicking technique, he’d be a good chance to maximise what opportunities he gets.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

So I wonder if brisbane really has the chops to slow us down. Meanwhile, we definitely know how to put the clamps on them.

No evidence of that so far this year.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

How serious and dour looking were the Brisbane players at last night's Brownlow broadcast.

They could hardly raise a smile and have their game face on already.

I remember back in 2003 our players were the same - everyone looked serious, deadpan and in the zone all week leading up to the GF. I remember thinking how switched on we were and that this was a good thing leading in. I was wrong and we got belted in that grannie by 12 goals.

Our boys look relaxed, smiling, engaging in conversation. Enjoying the moment. Have a look at our boys joking around with each other at training.

Brisbane may just choke themselves to death by Saturday.

I haven’t seen such jubilant celebrations since StKilda won the Wizard Cup

 

[Exambolor]

I haven’t seen such jubilant celebrations since StKilda won the Wizard Cup

That image of Lenny Hayes and Grant Thomas holding that cup up is unironically one of the funniest images in footy history

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Remember the last time a Pies player was robbed of a Brownlow, he won the premiership a few days later. That man? Dane Swan

Almost two weeks later lol

 

[RobJD]

The only thing with Lippa is he may not be quick enough to run with Coleman.

I didn't notice Kiddy getting a lot of his possessions due to his pace (more his positioning). He does use his speed once he's got the ball, the role for Lippa is to be with him to make his possessions more contested - not to chase him down once he's got the ball (if we wanted to chase him down, then I'd give the job to McCreery)

 

[thebaldfacts]

I wasn't confident last Saturday evening and somehow I'm even less confident now. Please for f* sake someone help me fire the f* up and convince me football's coming home

The general media narrative is how are we going to kick a winning score? Listening to it certainly can be depressing. What is being lost is that our defence has kept our opponents to 57 and 53 points. The much vaunted Brisbane forward line could only score 79 points at home against Carlton. They will certainly find it much harder against our defence at our home ground.
Another factor is GF experience and we certainly have Brisbane covered in that area. Can see stage fright as a big issue for many Brisbane players. As Jordy says, this is all about redemption.
Moreover as the best side all year, we are not being shown any respect so our players will really have something to prove.

 

[Scodog10]

The only thing with Lippa is he may not be quick enough to run with Coleman.

Coleman’s as slow as Lipinski. Not sure it’s the matchup, but the worry for me wouldn’t be pace. I think it’s more about how hard Brisbane will work to get it in his hands.

 

[eddiesmith]

Krueger is the better option, but in a grand final is far too big a risk he doesn’t get through the game.

Frampton is the safe option that helps our structure and whilst less damaging, is more likely to last the game and give us far more flexibility.

A small is just an insane option as you need those big marking options late if the game gets tight and the smalls tire so they can’t effectively spoil the big blokes.

Cox is a prime example of a bloke who can be useless for 3.5 qtrs but becomes vital in the final 15 minutes as those 3 on 1 he contends with for the first 3 qtrs become 1 on 1 as they can’t keep chasing.

It may be the last time we beat Brisbane, but I remember a close win at the GABBA where that’s exactly what occurred. He was quiet all day but took some very crucial grabs when it mattered.

Frampton can offer this, as well as the decoy option that keeps their undermanned defence away from Mihocek. Brodie plays best when he’s got someone else to take the biggest defender or provide a block in the contest.

Plus if it’s hot, you can’t be running Cox and Cameron ragged by spending more time on the ground.

 

[Piewithsauce13]

If we do go another tall, assume Tay doesn’t get up..can’t see anyone getting dropped.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Massive injury news coming out of Brisbane.

Unfortunately it’s the Broncos

 

[legendstatus]

It’s going to be a hot dry day so talls won’t be a risk, we need to put pressure on their backs, Harris is their best and only good tall if Payne plays then that’s where Cox, Checkers, Cameron and Frampton could cause a change at their end

 

[RobJD]

Coleman’s as slow as Lipinski. Not sure it’s the matchup, but the worry for me wouldn’t be pace. I think it’s more about how hard Brisbane will work to get it in his hands.

Agree, we need to get the Lion's HB line handballing more - they're not great at that (more a kick and mark team) - get them to handball in traffic rather than short accurate forward kicks - and then the B team (Bobby, Billy E and Beau) come out to play and smack them with forward pressure (all the while, Billy F has Andrews tucked away in the goal square getting sunburn on his forehead watching the ball sail over his head).

 

[No SPIN]

If we rotate the rucks through deep FF at all times then we still have your second tall down there.

But then they get no rest, which will be needed in the heat.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

But then they get no rest.

Less, not none.

 

[cfc19902010]

Our decision on who to bring should be based on risk reward and it’s a dilemma

Howe forward would be ok but it may adversely affect backline
Cox forward is ok but Cox ruck is needed against the big O because cameron has been sub par
Going small leaves us open to getting destroyed in the air
The inclusion of frampton gives us similar structure forward wise and
We don’t have AJ and
Kruger is just too risky
Frampton in gives us a 3 way rotate forward with rucks and he can help in the ruck and provides key back position insurance if Murphy or Moore go down
Frampton is the best low risk option imo

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Is brisbane's defence really that good? Its an interesting question that nobody seems to be asking. I wonder if in hindsight it looks obvious.

I dont believe this narrative that we struggle to score. We just beat the two teams with the best defences. Both defend fantastically.

So I wonder if brisbane really has the chops to slow us down. Meanwhile, we definitely know how to put the clamps on them.

We kicked 100 points against them at Marvel

A ground we don’t play well without Daicos, De Goey, Hill and Moore.

We can score just fine when we need to.

 

[sr36]

Our decision on who to bring should be based on risk reward and it’s a dilemma

Howe forward would be ok but it may adversely affect backline
Cox forward is ok but Cox ruck is needed against the big O because cameron has been sub par
Going small leaves us open to getting destroyed in the air
The inclusion of frampton gives us similar structure forward wise and
We don’t have AJ and
Kruger is just too risky
Frampton in gives us a 3 way rotate forward with rucks and he can help in the ruck and provides key back position insurance if Murphy or Moore go down
Frampton is the best low risk option imo

He might be the lowest risk option, but he's also the worst forward of those being mentioned - or at least the one wihtout any exposed decent form at any level in the role

 

[Didak_attack]

Starting to think this could be the route we go with our changes and sub:

In: Framption/Krueger and Noble

Out: McStay Ginnivan

Sub: WHE

F/K - Thought Frampton was a certainty, but I am starting to think Krueger is the way to go. Will run through anyone and booming kick.

Noble - CC/Rayner/McCarthy means he comes in as we are short a matchup on those 3.

McStay -

Ginnivan - Stiff to miss out, but a horses for courses type change. I know a lot will be calling for Lip-stinky to be dropped after last week (and overall form being ordinary since returning to the side) The one thing i liked against GWS was his tackling, i'll back him in to be an asset for us on Saturday.

WHE Sub - A true utility. Very high footy IQ, good hands and runs his guts out. In an ideal world he comes on midway through the 3rd qtr, with fresh legs he could certainly find a lot of space and get out the back I50 for a cheap goal or two.