Mollythedolly
Norm Smith Medallist
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Kelly was withdrawn from the VFL game early and held over as the senior emergency so it seems the coaching staff might disagree with you.
Unofficial Preview Changes & Pre-match Discussion - Round 18 vs. Adelaide, Sat 16/07, 1:45pm AO
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Kelly was withdrawn from the VFL game early and held over as the senior emergency so it seems the coaching staff might disagree with you.
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In: Moore, Macrae, Johnson
Out: Ruscoe (unlucky), Adams, T.Brown
Sub: Henry (looks a bit tired to me)
Out: Ruscoe (unlucky), Adams, T.Brown
Sub: Henry (looks a bit tired to me)
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Whatever the story with Kelly, if Moore is unavailable, surely he has to play this week, if simply for structural reasons.
Or perhaps with Moore and Dean injured and McMahon terrible he's the only option we have?
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He’s been okay, and if he’s not the answer, neither is an undersized backline. That was my opinion last week, and half the commentators have come over to my position. Here is one, from Sen:
Collingwood won't go anywhere without Darcy Moore
Collingwood will be breathing a sigh of relief after getting out of jail against North Melbourne on Saturday, a game they could’ve so easily lost.
The key reason why the upset so nearly occurred was a lack of size in defence as Nick Larkey helped himself to a five-goal haul against undersized opponents.
While the likes of Jeremy Howe and Nathan Murphy fought valiantly, it could get ugly for them coming up against a more potent tall forward line without Moore by their side.
The Pies are incredibly lucky that Moore will return in 2022, but they’d be desperate for him to get up for next Saturday against Adelaide given that they have a severe lack of tall defensive stocks to pick from.
With names like Taylor Walker, Peter Wright, Charlie Dixon and Todd Marshall set to face the Pies in the next three weeks alone, Moore holds the key to the Pies continuing their finals charge or completely blowing it.
All eyes will be on training at the AIA Centre this week to see how the All-Australian Pie shapes up.
His club’s hopes rest on his shoulders.
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
In: Moore, Macrae and Johnson
Out: Henry (rest), Adams and Cox (putrid)
I’d use WHE as a stationary target I50 in place of Henry and shift Noble up the field. The last change is a bit of fun because Cox offers nothing as a forward and is useless as a ruckman unless he wins the hitout. I doubt we go that way.
Sunday’s match has been a while coming with half a dozen guys going at about 50% capacity the last few weeks (Lipinski, Crisp, Pendles, Cox, Ginnivan and obviously Henry) plus Howe was away with the fairies for 3/4. For me it’s about application over the next couple because looking at our season we’re in the midst of the 4th of about 6 blocks (1st up to ANZAC day, 2nd the virus weeks and 3rd Fremantle up to the bye) the final 2 phases should be clear.
If we apply ourselves in the middle of the ground we probably win by 4-6 goals, but anything could happen if we see a repeat of Sunday’s stoppage work.
FWIW despite Murphy having a great game we dodged a bullet without an anchor KPD. If Larkey’s putting 5 past us Walker’s good to put 6+ up so if Moore doesn’t make it to the line we need to fix that setup. As much as it kills me because he isn’t up to it Kelly might be the option…
Out: Henry (rest), Adams and Cox (putrid)
I’d use WHE as a stationary target I50 in place of Henry and shift Noble up the field. The last change is a bit of fun because Cox offers nothing as a forward and is useless as a ruckman unless he wins the hitout. I doubt we go that way.
Sunday’s match has been a while coming with half a dozen guys going at about 50% capacity the last few weeks (Lipinski, Crisp, Pendles, Cox, Ginnivan and obviously Henry) plus Howe was away with the fairies for 3/4. For me it’s about application over the next couple because looking at our season we’re in the midst of the 4th of about 6 blocks (1st up to ANZAC day, 2nd the virus weeks and 3rd Fremantle up to the bye) the final 2 phases should be clear.
If we apply ourselves in the middle of the ground we probably win by 4-6 goals, but anything could happen if we see a repeat of Sunday’s stoppage work.
FWIW despite Murphy having a great game we dodged a bullet without an anchor KPD. If Larkey’s putting 5 past us Walker’s good to put 6+ up so if Moore doesn’t make it to the line we need to fix that setup. As much as it kills me because he isn’t up to it Kelly might be the option…
- Aug 3, 2020
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Cox's contested marking, ruckwork and involvement in our scoring (through I50s and score involvements) was huge. It was his tapwork that really lifted us in certain moments. Really think that is a poor suggestion.
NMBB
Norm Smith Medallist
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Jesus struggling to hold his place - at least according to the latest Census - has missed a few training sessions and selectors have their doubts - could be delisted...
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
It was also his inability to get to the contest with Mackay and his dropped marks early that allowed North to remain in the contest outside of stoppage. His 2 goals for the year also have me wondering whether I’d make a better forward than him
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
Not quite. It’s a bit of fun because even though I have a stack of reasons for making that move I know it won’t happen and I thought it might generate some discussion along the lines of Gouki’s. For me the 211cm bloke doing what a 211cm bloke should do (dominate the hitouts and take some contested grabs when he can’t get separation to take an uncontested grab) isn’t reason enough for him to hold his spot.
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McKay was playing on Mihocek from what I saw, and Cox was playing up the field.It was also his inability to get to the contest with Mackay and his dropped marks early that allowed North to remain in the contest outside of stoppage. His 2 goals for the year also have me wondering whether I’d make a better forward than him
You say he's "useless" in the ruck unless he wins the hitout - he wins almost 50% of the ruck contests he takes part in, and hits it to advantage at almost a 1/3 rate. His numbers aren't far off Witts and Gawn in that regard.
He's also been he =7th best contested marking player in the whole competition this season. That is far more valuable to this team than goal-kicking
Exactly correct Turnover Brown should never play in our AFL side again
Disaggree with McMahon terrible I think he is developing well and in 1-2 years will be a lock in the AFL with an extra 8Kg of pre season muscle
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
Righto Craig.
Do you know why his HO numbers are so impressive? It’s because he’s the number 2 ruck so he spends the majority of his time against the part timer who he dominates. I’m much more interested in what the part timer then offers at ground level and what Cox offers in his primary role as a forward.
I’m sure you’re old enough to remember prime A Rocca? He was a very good footballer and statistically had some of the best contested marking years of any KPF we’ve ever had. The reason was he couldn’t get the separation on the lead in order to take an uncontested grab so his numbers were inflated. Basically if he was taking a mark it was contested. Cox is the same he often contests v guys that are 15-20cm shorter than him that he should out mark more often than not, but even when he’s clearly got them beat it’s categorised as a contested mark because they’re right on his hammer. For Cox it’s a fake stat. Cameron though is a true contested marking player because he takes big marks in big packs.
Bringing the argument around competitiveness at ground level and ability to cover the ground >>> hitout numbers and “contested marks”. Not to mention it gives us the opportunity to take a look at Johnson for a few weeks (until Grundy returns) leading into the finals in case Mihocek goes down. Cox v Johnson is not a match defining change, but like the Ruscoe/ Howe/ Murphy combination it can have a ripple effect on things further down the line.
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When did dominating in the backup ruck spot make it any less impactful on the game? Must have missed the memo on those clearances not counting.
Again, that does nothing to downplay the importance of Cox's routine marking down the line. Not one bit.
Sure, it gives us the option. But we go from dominating the backup ruck spot to being dominated (is AJ rucking?), which is not something I'm willing to do given we have been crushed in the middle since Grundy went down.
manicpie
Brownlow Medallist
- Jul 19, 2019
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Get out and watch a VFL game before you make stupid assumptions. If you can't see a future in McMahon then you are full of it. What dumb ass would delist a 2nd year KP player who already shows signs that he is going to be a player. Give it a rest Eeyore
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
If you skip back a bit you’ll see that I posted that he does what he should do and it completely ignores what the opposing ruckman does away from the contest. Not that those hitouts aren’t impactful. Also what clearances? A hitout to advantage is a precursor to a clearance nothing more nothing less.
Being “dominated” in the hitouts could work to our advantage because it’s less predictable. Right now Cox wins a hitout to his feet, it’s sharked by whoever, they’re set upon, ball spills out and the opposition whisk it away because we’re a man down with Cox unable to pressure the ball carrier.
FWIW I appreciate there’s probably an argument out there for maintaining the status quo you just haven’t found it yet, IMO, but something’s going to give shortly. Whether it’s Lipinski once Adams is available or Ginnivan if he doesn’t start hitting up again or Cox as I’ve suggested a few need to step it up over the next fortnight.
Edit: last one from me. Do you feel that 2 goals in 9 matches is enough output from a 211cm fwd/ ruck who’s sitting 7th (on average) on the contested marking table? Considering the following guys are ahead of him Lynch, King, Mackay, Naughton, Wright and Gawn…
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I think we'll stick with Cox until Grundy comes back at the very least, I'd be surprised if he went out before then.
Henry could've easily had 2 on Saturday and his name wouldn't even be coming up but if we do give him a rest there's no better time to do it than when AJ is pressing his case for selection.
I'm giving Nick Daicos more mid minutes just to inject some class and a bit more pace than what we've been seeing.
I'm going
Moore, Macrae for
Ruscoe, Adams
Henry could've easily had 2 on Saturday and his name wouldn't even be coming up but if we do give him a rest there's no better time to do it than when AJ is pressing his case for selection.
I'm giving Nick Daicos more mid minutes just to inject some class and a bit more pace than what we've been seeing.
I'm going
Moore, Macrae for
Ruscoe, Adams
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The implication being what? That the opposing ruckmen when Cox is in does damage to us? The clearances generated by Cox winning hitouts to advantage maybe?
I don't think it would work given how much slower and less powerful in the midfield we will be this week without De Goey and Adams. I don't think unpredictable scrambling in the stoppage is going to suit a midfield with guys like Pendlebury and Lipinski.
The argument for maintaining the status quo is pretty obvious, you're just hell-bent on downplaying the things Cox is doing well because he "should" be doing them well. Rare to see someone advocate for a player to be dropped for doing their role adequately, but go off.
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
Yes, that’s precisely the implication of a more mobile ruck option up against Cox. How are we measuring those clearances exactly?
No I just don’t rate hitouts and fake contested mark numbers as much as you. I rate forwards who kick goals, ruckman who crash packs and get their hands dirty at ground level (hence why I used to love Grundy and why I’m big on Draper). I’d argue Cox’s 2 goals is less than adequate myself, but “go off” as they say…
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Got a lol at fake contested marks. If your agenda deem them fake, then so be it
Scodog10
Brownlow Medallist
It’s BigFooty people with agenda’s on here have sad lives, IMO. If you’re counting Cox’s contested marks as the real deal then blokes like Plugger and Carey never took uncontested marks…
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