Preview Changes: R3 v Port Adelaide, Saturday April 1, 7.00pm ACDT at Adelaide Oval

[AFC979810]

I've been able to buy a Crows 3 game membership in previous years after an individual game has sold out.

Did we advertise the game as sold out?

I think thats the issue - claiming a game is sold out when you are selling tickets that get you a seat at the game doesn't make sense.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Ask them what? Did he play wing?

My point is that the Dawson role here is similar to what he played at Sydney, that Sydney often push their wings behind the ball for defensive rebound.

People carry on like Pork Chops - why can't we play him more like they did at Sydney??

Meanwhile:

From Round 12 2021 at Sydney, Dawson played 70.6% of his time in the defensive half
From Round 12 2022 at Adelaide, Dawson played 71% of his time in the defensive half.

Source: AFL Player Heat Maps - DFS Australia
That's my point. That "play him like they did at Sydney" isn't something vastly different to what's happening now. He kicked 9 goals for Sydney and 10 goals for us.

No, a wingman pushed both back to provide cover & forward, including kicking goals.

A half back mainly plays in the back half, except when protecting zones from forward play.

Feel free to pull out Dawson's heat maps from his last half of a year in Sydney v this year, because there will be a huge difference!

This year he rarely has crossed the centre & spent significant time on the last line of defence... which is a bloody waste.

 

[dogs105]

Did we advertise the game as sold out?

I think thats the issue - claiming a game is sold out when you are selling tickets that get you a seat at the game doesn't make sense.

Don't remember any details about advertised. It was certainly announced to be a sell out that weekend, and I bought a 3 game GA membership and was able to go.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Did we advertise the game as sold out?

I think thats the issue - claiming a game is sold out when you are selling tickets that get you a seat at the game doesn't make sense.

What are the penalties for false advertising...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Unlike most other “experts” on AFC Bigfooty, I have watched Butts live on 3 occasions this year. I would love to be proven wrong but I think there is very little chance that he will come good (and I said this 5 weeks ago).

We have 5 possible key defenders. Keane, Worrell and Borlase have played 10 games in the AFL between them. Butts and Murray are still young and learning. We were always going to be in trouble if Butts, Murray or Worrell were injured or lost form.

Arguably our mistake was not offering Big Billy another contract and I seem to recall that most of the T&Ts were big fans of Billy.

No our best trade was to get something of value for Billy who is not AFL standard.

Keane will play more quality AFL games than Billy & should have played last week... even if we had to sub him out.

 

[dogs105]

Did we advertise the game as sold out?

I think thats the issue - claiming a game is sold out when you are selling tickets that get you a seat at the game doesn't make sense.

Last year they had a sell out in the final game of the year.


But you could still get entry by buying a 3 game membership:

Update: Showdown LII officially SOLD OUT

A sellout crowd is locked and loaded for the final game of the home-and-away season, but you can still attend with a membership.

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

 

[cleanhands]

Then what?

I don’t want to make it to hard for you, but assess his form

 

[Afcprophet]

Ask them what? Did he play wing?

My point is that the Dawson role here is similar to what he played at Sydney, that Sydney often push their wings behind the ball for defensive rebound.

People carry on like Pork Chops - why can't we play him more like they did at Sydney??

Meanwhile:

From Round 12 2021 at Sydney, Dawson played 70.6% of his time in the defensive half
From Round 12 2022 at Adelaide, Dawson played 71% of his time in the defensive half.

Source: AFL Player Heat Maps - DFS Australia

That's my point. That "play him like they did at Sydney" isn't something vastly different to what's happening now. He kicked 9 goals for Sydney and 10 goals for us.

What percentage was inside the defensive 50 and what percentage was in the defensive half? How often was he on the last line of defense?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Last year they had a sell out in the final game of the year.


But you could still get entry by buying a 3 game membership:

Update: Showdown LII officially SOLD OUT

A sellout crowd is locked and loaded for the final game of the home-and-away season, but you can still attend with a membership.

www.portadelaidefc.com.au

Perhaps their 3 game memberships are virtual...

 

[cleanhands]

No, a wingman pushed both back to provide cover & forward, including kicking goals.

A half back mainly plays in the back half, except when protecting zones from forward play.

Feel free to pull out Dawson's heat maps from his last half of a year in Sydney v this year, because there will be a huge difference!

This year he rarely has crossed the centre & spent significant time on the last line of defence... which is a bloody waste.

Oh No! Incoming……heat maps

 

[Mostyn]

Do you honestly not understand the difference between a defender and a wingman?

As for comparing goals, wow, he kicked those goals when he’s been moved up the ground. Just like at Sydney.

This is not your finest work at all.

Mate, it doesn't matter what it says on the team sheet. Whether he has a bib that says "defender" or "wingman" is irrelevant.

It matters what he DOES.

At Sydney he spent 70% of his time in the defensive half. At Adelaide he spends 71% of his time there.

All of the histrionics about "playing him like they did at Sydney" - when what he does here and what he actually did in Sydney ISN'T vastly different.

It's certainly not so different that it's worth the number of posts it gets.

 

[Mostyn]

No, a wingman pushed both back to provide cover & forward, including kicking goals.

A half back mainly plays in the back half, except when protecting zones from forward play.

Feel free to pull out Dawson's heat maps from his last half of a year in Sydney v this year, because there will be a huge difference!

This year he rarely has crossed the centre & spent significant time on the last line of defence... which is a bloody waste.

I have pulled those heatmaps previously, and I've referred to them in my document above.

The heat maps show where he spent his time in the ground.

Was there a difference? Well, one year he kicked 9 goals and in another he kicked 10. When he was a wingman at Sydney he was 70% of his time in the defensive half, and at Adelaide it's 71%.

So, sure there's a difference. He's probably deeper in the defensive half for us - I didn't dig down deep enough to know that, but it would make sense.

But my point is just that the difference isn't anywhere near as major as fans on here like to make out

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Ask them what? Did he play wing?

My point is that the Dawson role here is similar to what he played at Sydney, that Sydney often push their wings behind the ball for defensive rebound.

People carry on like Pork Chops - why can't we play him more like they did at Sydney??

Meanwhile:

From Round 12 2021 at Sydney, Dawson played 70.6% of his time in the defensive half
From Round 12 2022 at Adelaide, Dawson played 71% of his time in the defensive half.

Source: AFL Player Heat Maps - DFS Australia

That's my point. That "play him like they did at Sydney" isn't something vastly different to what's happening now. He kicked 9 goals for Sydney and 10 goals for us.

R17: Bulldogs v Swans Q1

Watch the full replay of the first quarter

www.afl.com.au

Please watch this game then come back to us , but please don’t comment again until you do

I can send you another 8-10 games like this in second half of swans 2021 season if you like

 

[Mostyn]

What percentage was inside the defensive 50 and what percentage was in the defensive half? How often was he on the last line of defense?

Probably deeper in defense for us, absolutely.

But I don't know that for certain, that was more than I looked at.

If you click the link, you can check for yourself.

 

[Mostyn]

R17: Bulldogs v Swans Q1

Watch the full replay of the first quarter

www.afl.com.au

Please watch this game then come back to us , but please don’t comment again until you do

I can send you another 8-10 games like this in second half of swans 2021 season if you like

Lol, are we resorting to the "forget all your statistics and data, I only trust my eyes! They're the true expert here!"

I'm not trying to convince anyone, Jeff. I'm just stating the numbers.

 

[George Kramer]

Mate, it doesn't matter what it says on the team sheet. Whether he has a bib that says "defender" or "wingman" is irrelevant.

It matters what he DOES.

At Sydney he spent 70% of his time in the defensive half. At Adelaide he spends 71% of his time there.

All of the histrionics about "playing him like they did at Sydney" - when what he does here and what he actually did in Sydney ISN'T vastly different.

It's certainly not so different that it's worth the number of posts it gets.

Ok, I will basic it right down.

As a defender he has to mark a player and stop that player getting goals. Quite often against a good coach, they drag him deep.

As a wingman, he pushes back, not to stop his forward scoring, but to help out. He can also move up the ground, attack and KICK GOALS. Which is what he’s done when he’s played that position for us and Sydney.

So to summarise, defenders stand a forward.
Wings move up and down the ground, including spending time in defence. Big difference is you’re generally a spare helping out and you’re not bogged down manning a player.

I’m really trying not to hang shit on you but crikey, why are you finding this so hard?

 

[George Kramer]

Lol, are we resorting to the "forget all your statistics and data, I only trust my eyes! They're the true expert here!"

I'm not trying to convince anyone, Jeff. I'm just stating the numbers.

You’re relying on heat maps rather than watching the game? And you’re not looking at all the statistics, goals kicked as a wingman v goals not kicked as a defender.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Lol, are we resorting to the "forget all your statistics and data, I only trust my eyes! They're the true expert here!"

I'm not trying to convince anyone, Jeff. I'm just stating the numbers.

The only proof of anything is to watch the games

The numbers say he had a role change as he started kicking regular goals and getting I50 possessions

How many I50 possessions did Jordan get against Richmond last week

Watch the games and get back to us , if you can’t do that it’s discussion over

We win

 

[cleanhands]

The only proof of anything is to watch the games

The numbers say he had a role change as he started kicking regular goals and getting I50 possessions

How many I50 possessions did Jordan get against Richmond last week

Watch the games and get back to us , if you can’t do that it’s discussion over

We win

Heat maps and stats……Blah

 

[King Elvis]

Round 3 and the wheels have already completely fallen off.

Nonsensical selections.
Yo-yo'ing players.

Normally we get a least 5 or 6 rounds in before this bullshit starts.

I'll say it once again, as I've said repeatedly over the last couple of years - there is no clear plan/strategy for the rebuild/development of this Club/Team.

We're a dog chasing cars, we don't know what we're doing, we're just trying to appear like we're doing SOMETHING.

 

[Mostyn]

Ok, I will basic it right down.

As a defender he has to mark a player and stop that player getting goals. Quite often against a good coach, they drag him deep.

As a wingman, he pushes back, not to stop his forward scoring, but to help out. He can also move up the ground, attack and KICK GOALS. Which is what he’s done when he’s played that position for us and Sydney.

So to summarise, defenders stand a forward.
Wings move up and down the ground, including spending time in defence. Big difference is you’re generally a spare helping out and you’re not bogged down manning a player.

I’m really trying not to hang s**t on you but crikey, why are you finding this so hard?

I'm just stating facts.

You've clung onto this "Dawson will get dragged deep into defence" thing multiple times. But it's only happened once or twice.

It's not 1976 anymore. Defenders have responsibility, but they don't play man on man. Often they're given far more attacking license than many midfielders or forwards.

That's especially true of Dawson. He's often released to be an attacking weapon - I think last week he had 5 uncontested possessions for every 1 contested possession.

He's not there to be a nullifying piece. We have others for that. He's an attacking weapon in the defensive half for us - just as he was for Sydney.

But look - BigFooty isn't a place for changing people's minds. You have your view, and that's cool.

 

[CrowBloke]

Ogilvie needs to take some responsibility for not pushing back against list management's misguided approach and not having a good track record on numerous high end picks. Surely the board can see that. If not it's time for a new direction at board level.

Keath (200cms, KPD) "requested a trade" from the Crows, no doubt disenchanted by events of 2018-19.
McAsey, #6 pick in 2019 who never looked happy at AFC, "... said he’d “lost a lot of the enjoyment and desire to improve which is required to make it at the top level”, signalling the end of his AFL career after 10 games in three seasons. All 10 matches were played in 2020.". McAsey had been AFC-ed out of AFL footy altogether.

Meanwhile, the Crows burned numerous picks on scrawny half-forward flankers who turned out to be duds, without focussing on selecting or trading in strong mids (*edit; strong mids who are not restricted to mid roles) and/or another decent KPD.
In 2023, they still need a KPD and an elite mid (or two!).
Those errors have severely impacted on the Crows win-loss ratio since 2018, caused the horrible bottom-out in 2020 (with the worst offence and defence in the AFL), and have hampered Nicks' best efforts (his odd selections policy notwithstanding).
Crows' biggest problems:
--- Roo, Reid, Ogilvie (and even if we get rid of them it'll take years to recruit better and develop them), VB.
--- rookie Coach Nicks having to deal with youngest and worst AFL list. I actually feel sorry for the bloke, looking at the shitshow he walked into and the assistants and Admin-attitude he's had to battle.
--- senior player/junior player schism, poor junior development, preferential treatment given to underperforming seniors etc., although that has changed somewhat in the last dozen games or so. Too little, too late.

P.S. it's not all negative. Getting Thilthorpe, Rachele, Dawson and Rankine has been excellent.

 

[Mostyn]

The only proof of anything is to watch the games

The numbers say he had a role change as he started kicking regular goals and getting I50 possessions

How many I50 possessions did Jordan get against Richmond last week

Watch the games and get back to us , if you can’t do that it’s discussion over

We win

Sorry - trusting your eyes isn't evidence.

Everyone thinks they're an expert. Most people VASTLY overestimate their own opinions.

"But it looked that way to me" isn't facts. Obviously that's incredibly subjective and will be skewed by personal biases. That's why we have numbers and statistics - so there's something objective to look at.

 

[Mostyn]

The only proof of anything is to watch the games

The numbers say he had a role change as he started kicking regular goals and getting I50 possessions

How many I50 possessions did Jordan get against Richmond last week

Watch the games and get back to us , if you can’t do that it’s discussion over

We win

C'mon, Jeff. Don't make me use the old "opinions are like aasholes" line.

Give me some actual stats to support your position,l.

Very happy to hear about the difference in inside 50 numbers from 2021 to 2022.

I'd certainly agree he SEEMS to play deeper for us, that what my eyes tell me - but I don't actually know until there's some evidence to support it.

 

[Burtonsgottago]

Round 3 and the wheels have already completely fallen off.

Nonsensical selections.
Yo-yo'ing players.

Normally we get a least 5 or 6 rounds in before this bullshit starts.

I'll say it once again, as I've said repeatedly over the last couple of years - there is no clear plan/strategy for the rebuild/development of this Club/Team.

We're a dog chasing cars, we don't know what we're doing, we're just trying to appear like we're doing SOMETHING.

Yes we do… our selection is based on underperforming seniors keeping their spots. Sloane, Smith, O’Brien all under performing to varying degrees and letting the side down with lack of leadership but it’s the younger guys that pay for it at selection.