Preview Changes v Freo Round 20

[Grimesy87]

You could literally name the top 10 blokes at about 12 clubs and it would sound as good, 3AAs in that list. That's not premiership guaranteed at all there. That's the same core that was a middle of the road side in 2020.

Including Howes Laurie and JVR lol, that's peak 2009 Melbourne s**t. Promising youngesters that have never played a game.

Oh yeah saying Howes etc are promising and comparing that to 2009, well the same group of recruiters directly picked the following players from draft that are all premiership players

Petracca, Oliver, spargo, bowey, petty, pickett, Jackson, Salem, ANB, brayshaw, sparrow, fritsch, rivers, harmes and Jordan.

2009 might have been peak shit, but 2009 recruiters never built a ****ing amart coffee table so I reckon current blokes deserve a little bit of credit.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Kade must be getting a game this week? Or am I reading this completely wrong??

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Kade must be getting a game this week? Or am I reading this completely wrong??

Maybe not, seemed the firsts were in the blue and Magoo's in the white in the training vision, Chandler in white, Bedford in white, interestingly Spargo was also in white....didnt see what colour Laurie was wearing but perhaps the week of his debut is finally here?

 

[jhong]

Maybe not, seemed the firsts were in the blue and Magoo's in the white in the training vision, Chandler in white, Bedford in white, interestingly Spargo was also in white....didnt see what colour Laurie was wearing but perhaps the week of his debut is finally here?

Did see another half arsed attempt at a tackle from Jackson though .

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Did see another half arsed attempt at a tackle from Jackson though .

Yea, **** that guy

 

[SugarHealey]

Spargo and ANB are virtually not existent this year, why? Are key forwards not bringing the ball to ground? Yes. Are we lacking pressure inside 50? Yes.

We're kicking over our best score from area. by kicking deep to the so called hotspot.

We scored much better when we brought the ball thru the half forward flank areas, where we could hit another target up the line, or the 45* chip to a positioned teammate within goal range.

This method also worked better for BBB, where he could lead toward the ball at HFF. Took a lot of marks this way.
We seem to be kicking over this spot, in 2022.

 

[Topkent]

Yeah that's exactly why I wrote "really promising players" at the end, as that's all they are at this stage. Guys that have been on the list 12-18 months and have shown good promise.

I'm not sure what you're arguing, I just named the blokes aged 25/26 for 2023 (viney would be 28) after the players you'd initially named being towards the end of their careers. Also the ones aged 22 or under in another group. There's still plenty of good players there. 3 have been AA and another 3 have been named in AA squad, off the top of my head under 26 at other clubs, only dogs and carlton are close to that profile.

I also said quote "History will repeat for us if we don't find some genuine ruck/kpf strength off the back of Jackson leaving" meaning we will be a middle of the road side like the dogs have been since 2017 if we don't address the players who are leaving/closer to the end asap.

I'm pointing out that that list of players you mentioned doesn't scream premierships to me. It has one key defender, no rucks and no key forwards. The midfield is still thin. We have a chance to win another with Gawn, May and Brown. How integral they are won't be known until they decline. Don't see Harmes, Jordan an Spargo carrying us to a flag.

 

[Topkent]

Oh yeah saying Howes etc are promising and comparing that to 2009, well the same group of recruiters directly picked the following players from draft that are all premiership players

Petracca, Oliver, spargo, bowey, petty, pickett, Jackson, Salem, ANB, brayshaw, sparrow, fritsch, rivers, harmes and Jordan.

2009 might have been peak s*t, but 2009 recruiters never built a ****** amart coffee table so I reckon current blokes deserve a little bit of credit.

Haha and back to all premiership players are guns stuff.
Petracca, Oliver, Jackson, Brayshaw were all top 5 picks. 2 of them want to leave potentially and we won't be getting many top 5 picks again soon hopefully

Pickett is a gun as is Petty. Don't see much outside that this is better than other clubs are capable of drafting aswell

We have to stay ahead of other sides not stay with them. Haven't drafted a good rookie for 6 years. Players like Jordan, Sparrow, ANB etc same as the Tigers list of Graham, Castagna, Butler etc all who looked better in the machine. Once the core isn't at the top they aren't that great.

 

[demondavey]

Haha and back to all premiership players are guns stuff.
Petracca, Oliver, Jackson, Brayshaw were all top 5 picks. 2 of them want to leave potentially and we won't be getting many top 5 picks again soon hopefully

Pickett is a gun as is Petty. Don't see much outside that this is better than other clubs are capable of drafting aswell

We have to stay ahead of other sides not stay with them. Haven't drafted a good rookie for 6 years. Players like Jordan, Sparrow, ANB etc same as the Tigers list of Graham, Castagna, Butler etc all who looked better in the machine. Once the core isn't at the top they aren't that great.

Which makes this year and next the prime years for another flag unless we top up or trade in. Need a universal lift across the board, do that and I think we can win this year. Hopefully these blokes realise nobody is as good as them when they’re on.

 

[Grimesy87]

I'm pointing out that that list of players you mentioned doesn't scream premierships to me. It has one key defender, no rucks and no key forwards. The midfield is still thin. We have a chance to win another with Gawn, May and Brown. How integral they are won't be known until they decline. Don't see Harmes, Jordan an Spargo carrying us to a flag.

Yeah mate I'm saying the same thing. The core is there, as it was in 2018 but needing key defensive strength (and then we got may) and obviously they saw they needed outside run (langdon)

At the moment you see it, I see it, 99% of this board see it. We need a high quality midfielder who kicks the ball well, and we need some 6'6 campaigner who jumps high and isn't scared of his shadow to mark it. We have gawn, we have may and pig down back, and Brown/McDonald as it stands for this year and hopefully they're all on the park come finals. As I said, from next year (post Jackson trade return) they'd best replenish that or we will be in same boat as the dogs were a few years (or even us 19/20.

 

[Topkent]

Yeah mate I'm saying the same thing. The core is there, as it was in 2018 but needing key defensive strength (and then we got may) and obviously they saw they needed outside run (langdon)

At the moment you see it, I see it, 99% of this board see it. We need a high quality midfielder who kicks the ball well, and we need some 6'6 campaigner who jumps high and isn't scared of his shadow to mark it. We have gawn, we have may and pig down back, and Brown/McDonald as it stands for this year and hopefully they're all on the park come finals. As I said, from next year (post Jackson trade return) they'd best replenish that or we will be in same boat as the dogs were a few years (or even us 19/20.

This part I 100% agree with you. This year has felt reactive only getting Dunstan. We need to get pro active. A bunch of 18 year olds coming in around pick 15-40 ain't gonna help us win another flag.

Dogs list managers should be sacked for failing to do anything front and back outside Keith and Bruce.

 

[Grimesy87]

Haha and back to all premiership players are guns stuff.
Petracca, Oliver, Jackson, Brayshaw were all top 5 picks. 2 of them want to leave potentially and we won't be getting many top 5 picks again soon hopefully

Pickett is a gun as is Petty. Don't see much outside that this is better than other clubs are capable of drafting aswell

We have to stay ahead of other sides not stay with them. Haven't drafted a good rookie for 6 years. Players like Jordan, Sparrow, ANB etc same as the Tigers list of Graham, Castagna, Butler etc all who looked better in the machine. Once the core isn't at the top they aren't that great.

Come on, just because you have top picks doesn't mean they're hits, look at the dees era you just described to me (Morton, watts, McLean Sylvia etc)

We haven't seen any of our rookies recently because the core has stayed the same since 2019. Literally a team sheet this weekend could look identical to 2019 and no one would bat an eye. Honestly, go look at a line up from 2019 when we finished 17th and look at what we put out on the weekend, and they are so similar.

Our drafting has been first rate over past few years, for every bust (weideman) there is a fritsch and petty that outweigh it from the same draft.

I know you're just using examples, but even comparing Butler and castagna to sparrow and Jordan is unreasonable, simply down to age. Sparrow hasn't screamed to me that he's the next Joel selwood, but he's just gone 22 and played what, 40 games? Jordan would be similar. At the moment they are basically playing selfless roles to keep their spots in the team. They obviously need to kick on, but still. As I said in an earlier post, every team needs those role players and guys happy to sacrifice their own game to an extent. Otherwise they'll just be like gws and have 15 mids all want the starting rotation.

I still stand by our core under 26/27 being very strong, but I'm also saying it needs a few layers as mentioned above.

 

[Grimesy87]

This part I 100% agree with you. This year has felt reactive only getting Dunstan. We need to get pro active. A bunch of 18 year olds coming in around pick 15-40 ain't gonna help us win another flag.

Dogs list managers should be sacked for failing to do anything front and back outside Keith and Bruce.

And they let Lewis young go, who's showed he's very capable.

2019 after hogan left I looked at our list and thought it was a bit light for key forwards, even with McDonald kicking 80 odd goals over the past season and a half. Turns out it was, but also the campaigners kicking in there.

2020 was a covid write off, last year I thought we lacked a small forward (then they got kosi) and I thought we lacked a skilful mid/forward before petracca stood up. Was amazed at the improvement from the rest with that though.

Coming into this year I never thought I'd be in round 20 saying on here we are battling for key forward depth and still crying out for a bloke to kick well inside 50. I'm hoping the FD are just as disappointed as you and I with weideman not kicking on, as well as spargo/harmes/whoever else plays that high half forward/mid role.

It's impossible to say who comes in be it pick 15 or 40, I know statistically it's improbable, but whoever the FD find needs to compliment the players 26/27 and under that I mentioned above asap or else we are gonna have a few nice polite years making finals but going home early.

 

[Topkent]

Come on, just because you have top picks doesn't mean they're hits, look at the dees era you just described to me (Morton, watts, McLean Sylvia etc)

Lol none of those picks could ever be judged as good or bad because the club was a disgrace from top to bottom. Every single player we drafted basically looked amazing in the first couple years then didn't develop.

Guarantee Trac and Oliver were the next Sylvia and McLean if they came to the club back then.

You're also kidding yourself if you think Sparrow, Jordan, Spargo, Bedford, Rivers, Bowey, Laurie etc are hitting the levels of Trac and Oliver cause that's what you need to win flags.

 

[demondavey]

Lol none of those picks could ever be judged as good or bad because the club was a disgrace from top to bottom. Every single player we drafted basically looked amazing in the first couple years then didn't develop.

Guarantee Trac and Oliver were the next Sylvia and McLean if they came to the club back then.

You're also kidding yourself if you think Sparrow, Jordan, Spargo, Bedford, Rivers, Bowey, Laurie etc are hitting the levels of Trac and Oliver cause that's what you need to win flags.

100%

There’s no way all those picks were duds, we were just absolutely shit and we ruined quite a few promising careers.

 

[Grimesy87]

Lol none of those picks could ever be judged as good or bad because the club was a disgrace from top to bottom. Every single player we drafted basically looked amazing in the first couple years then didn't develop.

Guarantee Trac and Oliver were the next Sylvia and McLean if they came to the club back then.

You're also kidding yourself if you think Sparrow, Jordan, Spargo, Bedford, Rivers, Bowey, Laurie etc are hitting the levels of Trac and Oliver cause that's what you need to win flags.

Yeah I'm not discounting that melb were that shit and ruined careers. But you can't tell me that other than Jack viney in what, 2014 or so, that melb recruited any leaders. Joel selwood gets recruited and year 1 makes Geelong better. Luke hodge. Travis boak- leadership. We recruited players who made sick beer snakes at the cricket and did burnouts at training. Obviously the club was ****ed but we had that many picks in first round over that 7 or 8 year period and not many at all had leadership or desire to succeed from my view. If they were good players, they'd have left and gone elsewhere and starred. Rivers went to Geelong and was serviceable. Frawley to hawks and was ok. McLean went to Carlton and was shit. I don't think blease, maric , tapscott, etc were getting picked by West Coast or hawks and being 200 gamers.

How can you say blokes like Laurie, rivers etc aren't going to hit higher levels though? Up until start of last year there were still blokes saying petracca was a dud. I can remember heaps of calls to trade him after 2019 when we all went to shit. He was 23/24 then. Rivers, Howes, Laurie are all 19/20 now. I'll give you Oliver cos he's a generational player though. How can anyone say with certainty that over next 4 years Howes doesn't turn into someone of that quality or JVR or whatever.

Anyway I'm derailing this thread and you and I aren't gonna change our minds are we. I still think the core of blokes 26/27 is as good as anything in the league but needs to add ruck/kpf asap and hope we can get someone coming through out of the next group who can kick a footy inside 50 under 30m high.

 

[Grimesy87]

100%

There’s no way all those picks were duds, we were just absolutely s**t and we ruined quite a few promising careers.

So why didn't any of them leave melb and have better careers? Half of them got delisted and go back to get on the piss at country level.

As I said above, frawley, rivers, Sylvia, McLean all left and never improved. Even more recently Howe, but he's doing exactly what roos was having him do but he went to play as a forward lol. Lynden Dunn? He had a couple of ok years at the pies bar injury. Tapscott blease maric lol.

Club was a mess I don't deny, but recruiting was shithouse too.

 

[Topkent]

So why didn't any of them leave melb and have better careers? Half of them got delisted and go back to get on the piss at country level.

As I said above, frawley, rivers, Sylvia, McLean all left and never improved. Even more recently Howe, but he's doing exactly what roos was having him do but he went to play as a forward lol. Lynden Dunn? He had a couple of ok years at the pies bar injury. Tapscott blease maric lol.

Club was a mess I don't deny, but recruiting was shithouse too.

Because they were already ruined mentally and physically. How come McLean, Morton, Trengove, Scully, Gysberts alot of em started really well and we were a fringe finals side by 2010. Its laughable you think that if the recruiters had just picked better players they would be better.

Ask yourself how the **** did we miss on every high pick even though they were mostly accepted as high picks by other recruiter's? Its not like we were drafting randoms at pick 7 that other clubs laughed at.

Everything above the club contributes to everything below. Selwood is exactly the same as Nathan Jones except one walked into a superstar side and one walked into a joke.

 

[demondavey]

So why didn't any of them leave melb and have better careers? Half of them got delisted and go back to get on the piss at country level.

As I said above, frawley, rivers, Sylvia, McLean all left and never improved. Even more recently Howe, but he's doing exactly what roos was having him do but he went to play as a forward lol. Lynden Dunn? He had a couple of ok years at the pies bar injury. Tapscott blease maric lol.

Club was a mess I don't deny, but recruiting was shithouse too.

Frawley was a premiership defender. He was virtually best on in the 2015 GF. Did exceptionally well post Melbourne. McLean was reasonable at Carlton, Sylvia was Dustin Martin levels of elite when he produced his best but didn’t have leadership or structure around him and instead he spiralled into bad habits etc. Imagine him at Geelong from 04 onwards. Scary.

Howe? Haha mate Howe is a gun. He has played over 200 and has been part of some reasonably good sides at Collingwood, and albeit a big part of their defence. Dunn was a workhorse. He was definitely not a bad defender at all. Do you realise how much flack he and Frawley copped when we were rubbish? How much they had to repel from opposition just walking the ball forward? He played 200 games of AFL football. That’s unique.

Recruiting was not as bad as you make it out. We had good picks and we picked the best available most of the time. You do realise Melbourne tanked so badly that McClean later came out and said he didn’t want to play for a club of losers? That’s the impact it had, losing was ok because it meant we got another draft pick to ruin.

When did Geelong last have a top 10 pick?

 

[demondavey]

Yeah I'm not discounting that melb were that s**t and ruined careers. But you can't tell me that other than Jack viney in what, 2014 or so, that melb recruited any leaders. Joel selwood gets recruited and year 1 makes Geelong better. Luke hodge. Travis boak- leadership. We recruited players who made sick beer snakes at the cricket and did burnouts at training. Obviously the club was *ed but we had that many picks in first round over that 7 or 8 year period and not many at all had leadership or desire to succeed from my view. If they were good players, they'd have left and gone elsewhere and starred. Rivers went to Geelong and was serviceable. Frawley to hawks and was ok. McLean went to Carlton and was s**t. I don't think blease, maric , tapscott, etc were getting picked by West Coast or hawks and being 200 gamers.

How can you say blokes like Laurie, rivers etc aren't going to hit higher levels though? Up until start of last year there were still blokes saying petracca was a dud. I can remember heaps of calls to trade him after 2019 when we all went to s**t. He was 23/24 then. Rivers, Howes, Laurie are all 19/20 now. I'll give you Oliver cos he's a generational player though. How can anyone say with certainty that over next 4 years Howes doesn't turn into someone of that quality or JVR or whatever.

Anyway I'm derailing this thread and you and I aren't gonna change our minds are we. I still think the core of blokes 26/27 is as good as anything in the league but needs to add ruck/kpf asap and hope we can get someone coming through out of the next group who can kick a footy inside 50 under 30m high.

Luke Hodge took a fair while to come on. I would regularly see a blonde tipped chubby hodge absolutely rinsed at the G Bung on Sunday afternoons ‘back in the day’ with other players.

Do you realise what side Joel Selwood walked into? Yes, he made them better, but he walked into a side that won the GF by the current standing highest margin.

Look at Gawn. He’d been around for 6-7 years and wasn’t much but it all changed under a different structure, leadership style, and coaching personnel led by Roos in 2015. We also had awful injury management and ruined Trengove.

I am absolutely not buying into the fact we drafted spuds.

 

[stEdy]

McClean later came out and said he didn’t want to play for a club of losers?

So he went and played for...Carlton

 

[Grimesy87]

Frawley was a premiership defender. He was virtually best on in the 2015 GF. Did exceptionally well post Melbourne. McLean was reasonable at Carlton, Sylvia was Dustin Martin levels of elite when he produced his best but didn’t have leadership or structure around him and instead he spiralled into bad habits etc. Imagine him at Geelong from 04 onwards. Scary.

Howe? Haha mate Howe is a gun. He has played over 200 and has been part of some reasonably good sides at Collingwood, and albeit a big part of their defence. Dunn was a workhorse. He was definitely not a bad defender at all. Do you realise how much flack he and Frawley copped when we were rubbish? How much they had to repel from opposition just walking the ball forward? He played 200 games of AFL football. That’s unique.

Recruiting was not as bad as you make it out. We had good picks and we picked the best available most of the time. You do realise Melbourne tanked so badly that McClean later came out and said he didn’t want to play for a club of losers? That’s the impact it had, losing was ok because it meant we got another draft pick to ruin.

When did Geelong last have a top 10 pick?

Frawley was an AA at melb lol for 1 year. So ok, from 2007 to 2015 with all those top 10 top 20 picks, we had 1 bloke make AA. Virtually best on ground lol Cyril got 14 of 15 norm Smith votes, yeah he played well but come on lol.

And Sylvia dusty like come on man, have a bit more respect for dusty, he's a frigging all time great. Sylvia had some good games and was arseholed off as soon as a decent coach come in and saw him first hand. Rip

Howe is literally playing the same role at Collingwood as he played under roos as I said. Media talk more of him now. As I already said, he left to play as a forward and they threw him back to hb like 2 months into the season. Again, good player but gun? Come on. Solid role player who takes a good mark. Unless I've missed something, he's twice been top 5 in Collingwood bnf and never an AA

Anyway our awesome drafting and all those guns in 2007 to 2015 lead to such memorable times as our 8.5 win season in 2010 lol such sustained success.

Melb revisionism at its finest. And I don't mean that personally demondavey I mean for all those years melb supporters thought these guys were our ticket out of being dog shit, and combined with a crooked admin and shithouse development , we drafted incredibly poorly on top of it.

Anyway, again this topic been done to death over past few years I personally don't care for revisiting those shithouse times either.

Teams tonight

 

[Topkent]

Roosy even turned Watts into a very useful AFL player. Guarantee if he was drafted to Sydney or Geelong Watts would have been a superstar. They wouldn't have let the bad habits develop into his life and game that we did.

 

[Topkent]

Wow our drafting and development magically turned around when Roos and his development staff turned up at the club, the administration was fixed and Peter Jackson was installed

But sure it's all because we magically ****ed up every top 10 pick before and magically got them right now

 

[Topkent]

Btw Grimesy87 I don't know how old you are but McLean was a ****ing gun under Daniher, that wasn't poor drafting at all.