Asia China's growing influence

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in 2008 both the USA and China had zero high speed rail…
16 years later the US still has zero high speed rail.
China have 45,000 kilometers of high speed rail.
Anyone who thinks China is lagging in technology and development is blinded by western narratives…

It will be interesting when the US citizens finally wake up and realise they are on the road to becoming a third world country with a decaying society and falling infrastructure and have been screwed over by corporations and politicians … and being lied to.
 

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Rob R said:
A source quoting influencers on CCP funded trips who are somehow so trusted by the CCP that they have access to freely post on the internet. Pretty clearly propaganda.

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Or you trust stories form the US like in babies being taken from incubators or weapons of mass destruction …
 
Jello_B said:
The cost can be freedom itself.
We seem to agree on a lot, but I can’t agree with an authoritarian state.
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All states are authoritarian, it's basically the definition

There is obviously a difference in scale and breadth between states. I'd say the main difference is that Chinese people are mostly aware they aren't free, in western countries it's a little different
 
nut said:
Like they have acknowledged the appalling abuse of refugees under Australian care.
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Yep, also true just Xi inflicts it on an industrial scale. Imagine how much richer, the smart and hard-working Chinese people would be if the CCP and the bilionaires running it hadn't held them back for decades causing tens of millions of deaths in the process.

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barreness said:
All states are authoritarian, it's basically the definition

There is obviously a difference in scale and breadth between states. I'd say the main difference is that Chinese people are mostly aware they aren't free, in western countries it's a little different
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Carn mate, there is huge deviations across countries for the scale and breadth of freedoms their populations enjoy.
Even the most stoic Chinese state supporter wouldn’t try and argue their freedoms are comparable to that of an Australian citizen.
 
Rob R said:
Yep, also true just Xi inflicts it on an industrial scale. Imagine how much richer, the smart and hard-working Chinese people would be if the CCP and the bilionaires running it hadn't held them back for decades causing tens of millions of deaths in the process.

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so why hasn’t the US with the most billionaires kept up with China’s growth in the last 20 years?
 

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Jello_B said:
Carn mate, there is huge deviations across countries for the scale and breadth of freedoms their populations enjoy.
Even the most stoic Chinese state supporter wouldn’t try and argue their freedoms are comparable to that of an Australian citizen.
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Whats your definition of freedom? Freedom to do what?


If only the Chinese had the western freedoms of gun laws and massive crime rates etc…

Freedom has a cost on many different levels.
 
nut said:
Whats your definition of freedom? Freedom to do what?


If only the Chinese had the western freedoms of gun laws and massive crime rates etc…

Freedom has a cost on many different levels.
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Not having a go at you specifically, just an observation that when confronted on something that seems obviously obvious people start challenging the definition of words.
 
Jello_B said:
Not having a go at you specifically, just an observation that when confronted on something that seems obviously obvious people start challenging the definition of words.
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Well we aren’t free to do what we want here… we have rules and laws that restrict our “freedoms”
 
nut said:
Well we aren’t free to do what we want here… we have rules and laws that restrict our “freedoms”
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Sure and I never denied that. We were talking breadth and scale.

Look, you can defend most positions if you want. As an example, you could defend China invading Taiwan and say “well the west did it too”, or “well the west continuously interfere in other countries”. Means **** all to the poor people in Taiwan who don’t want anything to do with China.
 
Jello_B said:
Sure and I never denied that. We were talking breadth and scale.

Look, you can defend most positions if you want. As an example, you could defend China invading Taiwan and say “well the west did it too”, or “well the west continuously interfere in other countries”. Means **** all to the poor people in Taiwan who don’t want anything to do with China.
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I think specifically stating which freedoms aren’t provided to Chinese people and comparing to the USA is fair.
 
nut said:
I think specifically stating which freedoms aren’t provided to Chinese people and comparing to the USA is fair.
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Do the Chinese people get to elect the party that represents them? Do they have any influence on policy imposed on the country they live in?
 
nut said:
so why hasn’t the US with the most billionaires kept up with China’s growth in the last 20 years?
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From the US side it is old fashioned greed of the rich folks and stupidity of most, in a fractured and divided country that hasn't realised it hasn't got 49% of the worlds GDP anymore (US GDP at the end of WWII). Empires often end when the elites get too greedy, the USA really needs to take note.

On the Chinese side they were coming from an extremely low baseline, had a period of mega investment from the west, massive infusion of technology either given freely or stolen, cheap labour and a strong drive (for various reasons) to improve their lot. It also corresponded to a period of opening up of Chinese society and the economy. It was OK for cats to be black or white as long as they were productive. Sadly much of that is being lost under President Xi, who I am sure will insist all cats are red.

I'm not sure how accurate the economic data is from the PRC, we saw in covid how they lied and disinformed constantly. A while ago they stop reporting youth unemployment because it was getting worse, IIRC it was around 21%. A very recent report I saw after they 'fixed' their reporting system put it at 14.2%. FYI Youth unemployment in the USA stood at 8.9 percent in June 2024.
 
nut said:
They are not banned from protesting… literally thousands of protests a year..

Protest and dissent in China - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

The computer game ban seems like good policy on the surface IMO… just like banning Vapes…
Excess gaming can cause massive amounts of health issue like depression, obesity, reduced motivation, sleep issues and lack of interest in other areas…
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They are protesting about economic policies. They arent protesting against the government. The former is fine with some tolerance. The later is not.

And there are half a dozen other issues I raised. Not just protesting and computer game time bans.
 

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