Asia China's growing influence

[barreness]

We do but we actually have far far greater rights to free speech, travel, representation, internet etc. Our ability to protest is far greater than protests jn China that require approval and are only tolerated for some issues. What do you think would happen if thousands decided to voice their complaints about Xi publically?

Human rights in China

Stay up to date on the state of human rights in China with the latest research, campaigns and education material from Amnesty International.

www.amnesty.org

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Mate, you have to apply for a ticket to protest here

What do you think happened when some students staged a sit in for the BDS movement, oh thats right
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...udent-protests-on-campus-20240704-p5jr4t.html

 

[barreness]

Human rights in China

Stay up to date on the state of human rights in China with the latest research, campaigns and education material from Amnesty International.

www.amnesty.org

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

oh amnesty, righto

https://www.amnesty.org.au/campaigns/offshore-detention-refugees/

 

[barreness]

one or two after a fair trial versus how many million jailed, died suddenly or disappeared

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

How was it fair? do you have any stats for the number of disappeared from china?

 

[Jello_B]

Climate change protesters;
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...in-jail-over-port-of-newcastle-protest-ntwnfb
'anti-protest laws passed by the former NSW Coalition government in 2022'
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-19/westgate-bridge-climate-protest-sentencing-appeal/103604764

Please don't make the argument that it's not a peaceful protest because they stopped traffic/work

ASIO targeting an autistic kid;
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...ted-for-an-australian-child-how-did-it-happen

I wouldn’t, it’s disgusting.
Hopefully her appeal is successful. Not really wide spread though is it. Most people copped a fine similar to one I received for me leaving my car parked “in the opposite direction to traffic” in regional NSW (it was a ****ing dirt road to a dead end ffs) coz the campaigners at the caravan park wouldn’t let my vehicle in!
I’ll check out the autistic kid thing now.

 

[Jello_B]

Climate change protesters;
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...in-jail-over-port-of-newcastle-protest-ntwnfb
'anti-protest laws passed by the former NSW Coalition government in 2022'
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-19/westgate-bridge-climate-protest-sentencing-appeal/103604764

Please don't make the argument that it's not a peaceful protest because they stopped traffic/work

ASIO targeting an autistic kid;
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/11/an-autistic-boy-faced-terror-charges-unprecedented-for-
an-australian-child-how-did-it-happen

What should they do with a case like this (re autistic child). Sounds like an exceptional circumstance. Not really night of the long knives stuff.

 

[Jello_B]

How was it fair? do you have any stats for the number of disappeared from china?

Simple one, would you prefer to live in Australia with our freedoms or in China with their freedoms?
And if theirs, have you been there?

 

[barreness]

What should they do with a case like this (re autistic child). Sounds like an exceptional circumstance.

Exceptional circumstances again. I wouldn't be baiting a kid into extremism, doing nothing seems better

Not really night of the long knives stuff.

I'd agree. The descent of liberalism into fascism is a road paved with good intentions though. First they came for the autistic kid.........

Look I don't think australia is that close to the line and China is clearly more authoritarian. I just dislike the argument of freedom vs not free, and that it's always sharp to be aware of how we(and other countries) exist on that scale.

Also how freedom is seen as a virtue, to do what exactly? this matters more imo

 

[barreness]

Simple one, would you prefer to live in Australia with our freedoms or in China with their freedoms?
And if theirs, have you been there?

From Singapore to Hong Kong around 2010, love a good train, little of south china. Yeh it's been a while, kinda hate travelling these days(environment and too tall for planes)

I'd rather live here because it's what I know and it's my country so feel a responsibility for it. Avoiding Chinese bigfooty to shit on Xi wouldn't seem like a massive sacrifice tbh

 

[Seeds]

Exceptional circumstances again. I wouldn't be baiting a kid into extremism, doing nothing seems better

I'd agree. The descent of liberalism into fascism is a road paved with good intentions though. First they came for the autistic kid.........

Look I don't think australia is that close to the line and China is clearly more authoritarian. I just dislike the argument of freedom vs not free, and that it's always sharp to be aware of how we(and other countries) exist on that scale.

Also how freedom is seen as a virtue, to do what exactly? this matters more imo

Freedom is a virtue to choose your own career path, to choose your own partner, to choose your choice of hobbies, to not be held responsible for the crimes of family members, to create your own wealth, to dress and say what you want, to vote for who you want (even if the choice is limited) and not be constrained culturally by your race/sex/sexual preference.

Freedom, however, is not the ultimate end we should strive for as libertarians claim. That end is emotional well being/happiness. But freedom is a critically important means for being able to achieve emotional well being. Without it we are trapped in a mental prison. Humans arent happy in cages. In fact its torture.

 

[barreness]

Freedom is a virtue to choose your own career path, to choose your own partner, to choose your choice of hobbies, to not be held responsible for the crimes of family members, to create your own wealth, to dress and say what you want, to vote for who you want (even if the choice is limited) and not be constrained culturally by your race/sex/sexual preference.

So Chinese people are mainly limited on one thing. Voting, which you note is limited in Australia

Freedom, however, is not the ultimate end we should strive for as libertarians claim. That end is emotional well being/happiness. But freedom is a critically important means for being able to achieve emotional well being. Without it we are trapped in a mental prison. Humans arent happy in cages. In fact its torture.

This reads like an argument against capitalism. I know you seeds, you too are a wage slave, break free mf

 

[Aussie in exile]

From Singapore to Hong Kong around 2010, love a good train, little of south china. Yeh it's been a while, kinda hate travelling these days(environment and too tall for planes)

I'd rather live here because it's what I know and it's my country so feel a responsibility for it. Avoiding Chinese bigfooty to shit on Xi wouldn't seem like a massive sacrifice tbh

Answer the question

 

[barreness]

Answer the question

I did ya flog.

'I'd rather live here'

 

[Aussie in exile]

I did ya flog.

'I'd rather live here'

Stop championing China then and Russia while were about it

 

[barreness]

Stop championing China then and Russia while were about it

You live in a racist delusion state, the time I take advice from you........well send me to the gulag champion

 

[Aussie in exile]

You live in a racist delusion state, the time I take advice from you........well send me to the gulag champion

I probably would, but its a badge of honour to be locked up for honesty

 

[barreness]

I probably would, but its a badge of honour to be locked up for honesty

Que? So I'm going to the Gulag for honesty?

I don't think you thought that through, colour me shocked

 

[Rob R]

Answer the question

He did answer your question.

Living in Hong Kong back then would have been nice before Xi started removing their long held rights.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[nut]

What people miss mostly about the size and population of China is keeping civil order.
Could you imagine the USA with its so called freedoms with the same population? How many more kids would be killed? How many more murders? How many much more crime??? How many more tent cities etc..

This idea that I have more freedoms means I am free .. is just bullshit.

China has brought more people out of poverty in the last 40 years than any other country in history, whilst the so called leader of the western world, the USA, is putting more people into poverty. So much for freedom?

Both systems are far from perfect …
I look at China, with its flaws, as a country trying to make the lives of all its people better, and westerners are starting to realise they are getting ripped off by multinationals and corporations.

This fear of China is manufactured by those who want things to benefit themselves… masking the massive improvements in China, so they continue extracting natural resources from countries like Australia..

I’d ask people to open your eyes..
Australia is awesome… but it’s slipping .. with our natural wealth we should be keeping up with China’s advancements..

 

[nut]

He did answer your question.

Living in Hong Kong back then would have been nice before Xi started removing their long held rights.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I’ve lived in HK and still have lots of friends that live there.. all Aussies.
Nothing much has changed and they live their lives in safety as always.

 

[swingdog]

Enjoyed this drive by in the linked article:

Beijing Daily, the official newspaper of the Beijing branch of the Chinese Communist party, also recently responded to the trend, with an article entitled: “‘History’s Garbage Time’? True or False?”

“Is there any ‘garbage time’ in our history? This is a false proposition that is not worth refuting,” the Beijing Daily writer declared in the 3,000-character piece refuting the proposition.

‘Garbage time of history’: Chinese state media pushes back on claims country has entered a new epoch

Authorities unhappy as Chinese chat groups and WeChat feeds buzz with discussion of whether China has entered period of inevitable failure

www.theguardian.com

 

[CD Xbow]

If you think Xi is a dictator than you really have no idea on how the Chinese government works.

I think you are the one showing you have no idea how PRC governance works. Prior to Xi, the wrecking ball, they had a system with a number of paths for advancement, allowed for a number of voices and was able to tolerate a plurality of views. This opening up was one of the things that allowed their prodigious technical and industrial advance.

Xi has destroyed much of this including the active civil society that was building. He has centralised power through purges, censorship and crackdown on descent. He has removed presidential term limits. He has propagated 'Xi Jingping' thought, in an almost religous way. In short, he's an autocratic despot that is actually doing more harm to China than good, which usually what happens when the cult of personality dominates. We see the same in Russia with Putin's idiotic invasion of Ukraine.

There were some comments made earlier about HK, suggesting it's all beer and skittles. This is not the experience of my friend who had been a lecturer in engineering there and set up a company that specialised in industrial production. He was given the arse from his lectureship and the authorities forced him to sell his company for a pittance.

Enjoyed this drive by in the linked article:

Beijing Daily, the official newspaper of the Beijing branch of the Chinese Communist party, also recently responded to the trend, with an article entitled: “‘History’s Garbage Time’? True or False?”

“Is there any ‘garbage time’ in our history? This is a false proposition that is not worth refuting,” the Beijing Daily writer declared in the 3,000-character piece refuting the proposition.

‘Garbage time of history’: Chinese state media pushes back on claims country has entered a new epoch

Authorities unhappy as Chinese chat groups and WeChat feeds buzz with discussion of whether China has entered period of inevitable failure

www.theguardian.com

Beat me to it.

 

[Jello_B]

I think you are the one showing you have no idea how PRC governance works. Prior to Xi, the wrecking ball, they had a system with a number of paths for advancement, allowed for a number of voices and was able to tolerate a plurality of views. This opening up was one of the things that allowed their prodigious technical and industrial advance.

Xi has destroyed much of this including the active civil society that was building. He has centralised power through purges, censorship and crackdown on descent. He has removed presidential term limits. He has propagated 'Xi Jingping' thought, in an almost religous way. In short, he's an autocratic despot that is actually doing more harm to China than good, which usually what happens when the cult of personality dominates. We see the same in Russia with Putin's idiotic invasion of Ukraine.

There were some comments made earlier about HK, suggesting it's all beer and skittles. This is not the experience of my friend who had been a lecturer in engineering there and set up a company that specialised in industrial production. He was given the arse from his lectureship and the authorities forced him to sell his company for a pittance.


Beat me to it.

But but but, we don’t have freedoms here either (insert article about Australian government acquiring private property for a new road build or something).

 

[barreness]

He did answer your question.

Living in Hong Kong back then would have been nice before Xi started removing their long held rights.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Did you think they had a vote when the British occupied them?

 

[nut]

Argentina joins belt and road initiative ….

 

[Seeds]

What people miss mostly about the size and population of China is keeping civil order.
Could you imagine the USA with its so called freedoms with the same population? How many more kids would be killed? How many more murders? How many much more crime??? How many more tent cities etc..

This idea that I have more freedoms means I am free .. is just bullshit.

China has brought more people out of poverty in the last 40 years than any other country in history, whilst the so called leader of the western world, the USA, is putting more people into poverty. So much for freedom?

Both systems are far from perfect …
I look at China, with its flaws, as a country trying to make the lives of all its people better, and westerners are starting to realise they are getting ripped off by multinationals and corporations.

This fear of China is manufactured by those who want things to benefit themselves… masking the massive improvements in China, so they continue extracting natural resources from countries like Australia..

I’d ask people to open your eyes..
Australia is awesome… but it’s slipping .. with our natural wealth we should be keeping up with China’s advancements..

To equivalate the west and china in its flaws is not correct. Its like claiming biden and trump are no different.

Chinas communist party has detained and imprisoned over 1 million uyghurs against their will. China also kidnaps people and sends them to re-education camps (or prisons) if they say something they dont like. There is no rule of law and no seperation of powers in this respect. China bans its citizens from accessing information overseas it disagrees with. China gives its citizens social scores with the aim for it to force people to act certain ways that old conservative men deem acceptable.

This is no equivalence. None. You are one of the more intelligent posters on this forum and the fact you posted this pro authoritarian view is frankly a little scary for me. This post completely devalues human rights and democracy in my opinion.

Oh and on chinas economy. Chinas economic growth was driven by the adoption of capitalist policies and an opening up to western investment that began in the 1980s under Deng when he replaced Mao and his lackies. It wasnt achieved through an alternative economic approach. It was movement to the western approach that drove the economic growth.

Its easy to grow when you are starting a long way behind the production frontier. You just have to open yourself up to capitalism and foreign investment. However, despite its amazing growth Chinas gdp per capita is still a long way from reaching western standards. In order to get there they would need to fully adopt a capitalist system with absolute rule of law, seperation of powers and priortization of human rights. But they now look to be moving the other way in these areas under Xi and growth is already slowing sharply even though they are still no where near western standards.