Chris Judd - Greatest player of the 21st Century (so far)

[Thermo]

Ablett and Judd both amazing footballers but I would go to war with Judd first. He often has players hanging off him and still pulls away with the ball while Ablett gets fed more. Judd does the harder stuff which I rate very highly in such a brutal sport and also brings other players into the game.

Someone did not watch Ablett this year.

 

[bulletproof]

When he played for West Coast yes. At Carlton, no.

 

[blues4flag]

Cousins was phenominal.



Very well said. Cousins was an all round gem and was the reason they won the premiership. It was such a shame to see him get on the drugs as he probably would have achieved more.

What is this tripe?

Cousins was a champion but to say he was the reason they won the premiership is ludicrous. I would have thought Judd, Kerr, Cox, Glass and a dozen others played their bit.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

Judd developed earlier and and has been elite for longer but Ablett's peak over the last 5 years has been far better than Judd's. I think right now Judd has him slightly covered based on their careers but Ablett at his best was/is definitely the better player.

If both maintain similar form to the last couple of years Ablett will be remembered as the best.

It's interesting to compare their career:

Judd: 222 games, 193 games, 5* B&F's, 6AA's, 2 brownlows, 2 MVP's, 1 Norm Smith, 1 premiership
Ablett: 212 games, 280 goals, 3 B&F's, 5AA's, 1 brownlow, 3 MVP's, 2 premierships


*maybe 6 in a few weeks


Ablett hasn't won a norm smith but his 08 GF was just as good as Judd's 05. Ablett will likely catch up in the B&F count too as he wont have much competition over the next 2 years or so whereas Judd will have Murphy and Gibbs to contend with.

It's interesting to note that despite the 02-06 years, Ablett has managed to match or possibly surpass Judd based on statistics alone:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...pid1=230&tid2=4&pid2=109&type=A&fid1=C&fid2=C

Bollocks.
Ben Cousins should be ranked with the Luke Power/Scott West type of player, club champions but not all time greats of the game.

Simon Black has had a more consistent and decorated career then Cousins.
I don't know how to take your views on Judd seriously when you have proven to be an ardent Carlton hater

Holy shit this is terrible.

 

[blues4flag]

Judd developed earlier and and has been elite for longer but Ablett's peak over the last 5 years has been far better than Judd's. I think right now Judd has him slightly covered based on their careers but Ablett at his best was/is definitely the better player.

If both maintain similar form to the last couple of years Ablett will be remembered as the best.

It's interesting to compare their career:

Judd: 222 games, 193 games, 5* B&F's, 6AA's, 2 brownlows, 2 MVP's, 1 Norm Smith, 1 premiership
Ablett: 212 games, 280 goals, 3 B&F's, 5AA's, 1 brownlow, 3 MVP's, 2 premierships


*maybe 6 in a few weeks


Ablett hasn't won a norm smith but his 08 GF was just as good as Judd's 05. Ablett will likely catch up in the B&F count too as he wont have much competition over the next 2 years or so whereas Judd will have Murphy and Gibbs to contend with.

It's interesting to note that despite the 02-06 years, Ablett has managed to match or possibly surpass Judd based on statistics alone:

Agree with the majority of this post, however Judd's 2006 season was right up there with anything Ablett has produced. He was sensational.

Also, while Judd was the dominant player of the competition between 2004-mid 2007, he was never an accumalator. Besides, back then an average of 25 touches per game was elite - these days, it's the norm for a midfielder. And Ablett did play for Geelong, who consistently averaged 20-40 disposals per game more than the next most side.

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

If you go by my criteria of any player drafted on or after the year 2000, so players like Scarlett, Pav, Buckley, Hird Voss etc are ineligible.

Judd's record stands by itself, and this year first player i believe to poll more then 20 brownlow votes in 5 seasons.

For sheer consistency the only player that comes to Judd for mantle of best 21st century player is Gary Ablett Jnr, but his first season didn't set the world on fire.

Yes I know this century is only 11 years old, but clearly Judd will be remembered as this century's first AFL immortal, will be named as a legend in the AFL Hall of Fame when he retires, and rightfully so.

 

[Partridge]

And herein lies the fallacy. Why is Judd penalised for hitting the ground running? He was a Brownlow Medalist in his 3rd season of football.

And? Good for him. Newsflash - he wasn't the first player to do that. He won't be the last either. There were actually midfielders around before Chris Judd, much as his acolytes in the media pretend otherwise.

His 2006 was as dominant as any season that Ablett has produced.

I'd suggest Ablett's 2009 at the very least was just as good if not better.

Club Best and Fairest. Check.
Key component in a premiership side. Check.
Votes the competition's MVP (for the 3rd season running). Check.
Won the Brownlow by 8 votes. Check.

Just checking, did Golden Balls match that in 2006? No doubt "the way he went about it" was superior. Plus he might have sent back another plate of chips.

 

[Jade]

And in terms of leadership, Judd is a far more professional and dedicated captain @ Carlton then Ablett is @ Gold Coast. There was good reasons why Bomber Thompson never made Ablett captain, he does not have great leadership qualities like Judd

On no he di'int......

I must have missed the Gold Coast booze cruise this year. And it clearly slipped my notice when some Gold Coast yahoo embarassed Ablett on camera at the Brownlow, whilst he smiles meekly into the camera.

I must have been hallucinating when Ablett, surrounded by kids out of their depth, put on a precession of one man shows and utter on field leadership.

My hallucinations must have been shared (had to be the water), as the AA selectors also thought he was so freakin good they made him captain - in his first year as a captain.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Judd for media hype and AFL love.

Ablett for more touches at better efficiency with more impact and better all round player.

 

[bacon buster]

yeah, nah

it's actually unfair to compare Judd to Ablett. Ablett is by far a more complete player it's not funny.

in 6 years time, GAJ will be kicking 50-60 goals from a forward pocket and having a massive impact still. Judd will be either retired or finished as an elite player.

 

[Zeke]

Of all the players I have seen, Judd is one of the finest.
Virtually elite in most aspects of the game, I'd say.
Every time he runs out you expect productivity.
Regularly picks up BOG's and boy do the umpires love him.
Rabid Blues fans are much the same.
After his defection from Perth many punters wondered how he would cope.
The proof is in the pudding, though.
Even a Collingwood supporter can see that.
Destined for the Hall of Fame, nothing is surer.

 

[blues4flag]

Not sure why I'm responding to this antagonist rubbish...

And? Good for him. Newsflash - he wasn't the first player to do that. He won't be the last either. There were actually midfielders around before Chris Judd, much as his acolytes in the media pretend otherwise.

And? Good for them. Show me where I claimed he was the only player to achieve the feat.

The quoted poster claimed their first few seasons where irrelevant because nobody cares about a player's 'formative' years. Chris Judd won a Brownlow in his 'formative' years so they're very relevant to the discussion.

I'd suggest Ablett's 2009 at the very least was just as good if not better.

Club Best and Fairest. Check.
Key component in a premiership side. Check.
Votes the competition's MVP (for the 3rd season running). Check.
Won the Brownlow by 8 votes. Check.

Just checking, did Golden Balls match that in 2006? No doubt "the way he went about it" was superior. Plus he might have sent back another plate of chips.

Hence why I said as dominant and not more dominant.

Club B&F
Captain of premiership side
AFL MVP

Only award he didn't win was the Brownlow but I've been told all year that it's irrelevant so we'll ignore that.

 

[blues4flag]

yeah, nah

it's actually unfair to compare Judd to Ablett. Ablett is by far a more complete player it's not funny.

in 6 years time, GAJ will be kicking 50-60 goals from a forward pocket and having a massive impact still. Judd will be either retired or finished as an elite player.

Once that occurs, we can safely call Ablett the better player. Until such time, Judd was the best player in the competition while Ablett was just another HFF.

Ablett might be first since 2007 but Judd is right behind him. Judd's had a better career than Ablett. Judd has produced 3 (and one just below elite) more elite seasons than Ablett has to date.

 

[fairlight_cmi]

Bollocks.
Ben Cousins should be ranked with the Luke Power/Scott West type of player, club champions but not all time greats of the game.

Simon Black has had a more consistent and decorated career then Cousins.
I don't know how to take your views on Judd seriously when you have proven to be an ardent Carlton hater

lolwut?

Cousins is an all time great. I'd rate Judd in a category that sits between Cousins and Luke Power/Scott West/Rob Harvey types.

 

[blues4flag]

On no he di'int......

I must have missed the Gold Coast booze cruise this year. And it clearly slipped my notice when some Gold Coast yahoo embarassed Ablett on camera at the Brownlow, whilst he smiles meekly into the camera.

I must have been hallucinating when Ablett, surrounded by kids out of their depth, put on a precession of one man shows and utter on field leadership.

My hallucinations must have been shared (had to be the water), as the AA selectors also thought he was so freakin good they made him captain - in his first year as a captain.

Please. Fevola is a force of nature that nobody could control. Just ask Jonathan Brown. There were a few indiscretions in Ablett's time at Geelong and let's not forget the incident up in Thailand, but to blame any of those either Ablett or Judd is ludicrous.

Both have proven to be instrumental on field leaders who lead by example. There's no doubting the influence Judd has had at Carlton. I'm sure Gary will forge the same reputation up north.

 

[Gone Critical]

This is a typical BF thread. Assessments influenced by club bias

Chris Judd has already done enough to justify being ranked with the all time greats. Ablett is almost the same. Too much time is spent thinking about last week , last month or last year. Judd was sensationally good in his early years. His time in elite company spans longer than Abletts so is what gets him over the line in comparing their careers but only just.

Abletts last 5 years have topped Judd just. Their v best seasons have been on a par.

I dont care if a person plums to one or the other. What annoys me is those who use faint praise to diminish his career. Judd and Ablett, two champions, nuff said

 

[00Stinger]

Can I also mention Carlton were a basketcase for nearly a decade before Judd arrived and now we are a regular finals contender.
West Coast fell apart in the first couple of years without Judd.
Geelong now are arguably a better team without Ablett.

3 number 1 draft picks in a row would help that

Once that occurs, we can safely call Ablett the better player. Until such time, Judd was the best player in the competition while Ablett was just another HFF.

Ablett might be first since 2007 but Judd is right behind him. Judd's had a better career than Ablett. Judd has produced 3 (and one just below elite) more elite seasons than Ablett has to date.

Bullshit.
Judd developed earlier, but since Ablett has hit his stride there is no comparission

 

[strategy]

cough cough splutter splutter .

your criteria is wrong .

Judd is a good player but just that .He is so favoured

How many players that voted him the MVP have actually seen him play the majority of his games ..none ... only his team mates... the year he split Pavs face open , he wins an undeserving Brownlow . he rarely marks or kicks goals . He breaks open packs with his speed , thats it.In this years 2 finals he played he was beaten easily and Ratten goes and carries on like a sook about how he was beaten etc and will take it up with the powers of the AFL.

go and think about your thread as you are way OFF .


TEAM players i would have before Judd

Ablett, Swan , Pendlebury, Thomas, Bartel , Kelly, Enright, Pavlich, Fyfe, Kerr, Dal santo , Goddard , Boyd, Murphy, Hodge,Mitchell , Goodes, Boomer,

 

[Galileo9]

ablett. someone mentioned that ablett gets fed more. what load of croak. noone is better at getting out of congestion than ablett. kicks better and is deadly around goals.

ablett by a mile.

 

[bacon buster]

Once that occurs, we can safely call Ablett the better player. Until such time, Judd was the best player in the competition while Ablett was just another HFF.

Ablett might be first since 2007 but Judd is right behind him. Judd's had a better career than Ablett. Judd has produced 3 (and one just below elite) more elite seasons than Ablett has to date.

you can create your own arbitrary criteria, but Ablett is a better player than Judd. simple as that.

therefore, thread is fail.

 

[zaharakamania]

Yes, as many others have said - Judd is very good but Ablett the better player, & better by a fair margin.

 

[blues4flag]

Bullshit.
Judd developed earlier, but since Ablett has hit his stride there is no comparission

And? "Judd developed earlier" is even the half of it.

1. Ablett (2009) - 10
2. Judd (2006) - 10
3. Ablett (2010) - 9.5
4. Judd (2004) - 9.5
5. Ablett (2008) - 9.5
6. Ablett (2007) - 9
7. Judd (2011) - 9
8. Ablett (2011) - 9
9. Judd (2010) - 8.5
10. Judd (2009) - 8.5
11. Judd (2005) - 8.5
12. Judd (2008) - 8
13. Judd (2007) - 8
14. Judd (2003) - 7
15. Ablett (2005) - 6.5
16. Ablett (2006) - 6
17. Ablett (2004) - 6
18. Judd (2002) - 6
19. Ablett (2003) - 5
20. Ablett (2002) - 3

Each of those first 13 seasons are unequivocally elite. Judd claims 8 of them to Ablett's 5. 2003 Judd was a level below elite (top 10 for clearances and 11th for contested possessions in his 2nd season, runner up in B&F) but still top 50 in the competition.

On another note, the entire house is shaking after a massive lightning bolt hit somewhere nearby. Bit rattled, I am.

 

[DO IT TO IT]

you are overrating judds season this year. fact of the matter is he went missing against the good teams and then had an awful finals series

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

How can he be the greatest player of the 21st Century when the spud can't even kick??

Lol @ his 53% DE in the final VS WCE, cost them the game. HA HA HA

Also I think against the pies this year, had something like 40% DE (maybe less) and got 3 votes! More than half his possessions were handballs, and the spud still couldn't hit a target.

Easily the most over-rated player of all time.

Exactly right. I saw that game against Collingwood, he spent all day kicking the ball down Collingwood players' throats, and he got 3 votes for it!!!

Easily the most over-rated player I've seen, and judging from the crap written about him, and way commentators drool each time he appears on the screen, the most over-rated in the history of the game.

People were purporting him as the greatest player of all time, and he wasn't even the best player at West Coast at the time. Makes you sick.

 

[blues4flag]

you are overrating judds season this year. fact of the matter is he went missing against the good teams and then had an awful finals series

I agree but just going by popular opinion. If anything, his season last year should be a 9 (unbelievable start to the year, destroyed all comers in our B&F, Brownlow Medalist and he was BOG by a street in his one final) and this year an 8.5 but it makes no difference.

His start to 2010 was the most dominant period I've ever seen from a Carlton supporter, but it was quickly forgotten come Brownlow time. Games missed through suspension hurt him in the media awards.