Strategy Chris Scott's coaching performance

[Partridge]

Just to simplify it a little....yes we lost in the ruck, however don't you think our tendency to just bomb it into the 50 consistently is what cost us? Time after time we just banged it in high and long, against a premier defence, teams do that to us....and we kill them. I understand it's hard to pinpoint a pass when its clogged but come on.

Either we pinpoint some passes or bring back the torp and go over the top of the b@stards

Yeah there was a definitely lack of thinking there. I don't get why they didn't try to find leading targets around the 50. It was the same tactic over and over and over again. Which all good sides love.

 

[Pivo]

...however don't you think our tendency to just bomb it into the 50 consistently is what cost us? Time after time we just banged it in high and long, against a premier defence, teams do that to us....and we kill them. I understand it's hard to pinpoint a pass when its clogged but come on.

Either we pinpoint some passes or bring back the torp and go over the top of the b@stards

I think this is partly a product of having a very good power foward. Bombing to Hawkins has been a bit of a 'get out' play. A fit Hawkins is still a 50-50 proposition to clunk a contested mark but it is his ability to bring it to ground and help trap it in that we are missing.

Last year Hawkins was pretty good on the deck as well as the air and the players up the ground knew that.

When you've played that way for a while it becomes ingrained.

Podsiadly and Hawkins are the guys we hit up coming out of defence when we have a bit of time and space.

But Hawkins was, more times than not, the go-to guy when things were tight or the forward line was flooded.

Also, teams know he isn't right so he doesn't command an extra 1 or 2 defenders as much which also freed up the crumbers and freed up Podsiadly.

Do something often enough it becomes habitual and, I think, we're seeing that now when we keep bombing it deep.

Matters made worse last weekend by the fact Walker ain't Hawkins.

I know Bartel has being assigned a role down back but I'd love to see him start up forward on Friday night. He is smart enough to find space, he can read the play, he'll add a bit of defensive pressure but, most importantly, he can mark.

 

[Berserker26]

I know Bartel has being assigned a role down back but I'd love to see him start up forward on Friday night. He is smart enough to find space, he can read the play, he'll add a bit of defensive pressure but, most importantly, he can mark.

I'd actually love to see him at a center bounce...the position he won a brownlow medal in. Put kelly/corey/varcoe down back instead.

 

[Pivo]

I'd actually love to see him at a center bounce...the position he won a brownlow medal in.

If he was playing like it was 2007 then he probably would be in there.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

The final sentence is the critical one. The ones that we and the club might still think are quality perhaps aren't. That's the tough part.

I've crunched the numbers regarding ruckmen and clearances this year. Makes for interesting reading. Basically, no matter who of the 3 main ruckmen we've used (Simpson, West, Vardy), we lose total clearances. Simpson gives us the best with 33.33%, West 30.76%, and Vardy 25%. To no one's surprise, Simpson gave us the best centre clearance results by miles - 66.66%, compared to 15% to West and 25% to Vardy.

So it seems that with Simpson out of the picture, it's going to be whatever qualities that match committee deem more important on the day.

That's a good statistic to judge by....how are best clearance results determined. It did certainly seem like DS was giving us a new dimension when he was in.

Wests 15% is probably reflective of what I have felt has been ineffective performance. Would be interested in comparing this to other opposition and even to West in previous years where I felt he has been better performed.

As for the long kicking.....yes was very confused why we didn't have a better plan b as this was ridiculous in the last half. Surely the senior players need to show better leadership regarding this tactic.

I was personally hoping to see us use SJ and Chappy deep to give us a different dimension moving Vardy and Pods to high half forwards. Bartel is certainly another option who can at least spread the defence around the arc.

 

[Berserker26]

If he was playing like it was 2007 then he probably would be in there.

I have 2 thoughts on this -

1 - I'd argue he's not been given the chance to play in the guts and show his value
2 - IMO he's been killing wherever they put him all year, have you thought he's not going that well?

 

[Pivo]

I have 2 thoughts on this -

1 - I'd argue he's not been given the chance to play in the guts and show his value
2 - IMO he's been killing wherever they put him all year, have you thought he's not going that well?

Point 1 - I probably agree with your thoughts there (but I'm not convinced he'll bring much more than what Corey and Kelly have been providing in there, he certainly won't bring his 2007 form). However, the reason he hasn't run through there is probably because he is deemed more important elsewhere and we can't really play Kelly and Corey away from the middle. Put those guys down back?? We're already being exposed down there for a lack of pace as it is. When did Kelly last play defence by your reckoning? Be a few years ago (and it was only a stop gap iirc). Who out of Bartel, Corey, Kelly and Varcoe would you rather in defence? I know who'd I select first, on current form, of that group.

Point 2 - IMO he hasn't been "killing it" all year. He has played some very good games down back mixed in with some middling performances (and trust me, that hurts to say as Bartel is my favourite player). But picking up possessions playing that loose or sweeping role down back is a little different to sitting in the guts roving to the opposition ruckman because ours aren't touching it, trying to extract the pill, watching your man (something Bartel has been guilty of NOT doing in defence at times this year) and running hard both ways.

Also, you have to consider the guys helping out Selwood like Johnson, Stokes (on track for a career year), Christensen, Duncan and Taylor Hunt.

People see things differently. I'd rate his year as pretty solid (some very good games) but not spectacular.

You seem to disagree.

End of the day, he'll probably start where he has all season regardless of what you and I think.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

The Bartel situation has confused me a little, as to has some of our forward structures.

I was under impression at start of year that we were looking at isolating Chapman deep....which hasn't happened at all since his return. Also considering recent tags on SJ and our over reliance on long kicking into forward line, I can't understand why we haven't put both Jimmy and SJ in forward pockets at times to add dimension to our attack.

In 2007 and 2008 we were unstoppable in attack because SJ and Chapman were just s potent as Mooney, Nablett and Stokes....yet we seem to have done the Benjamin Button since and turned all of our gun Half Forward and Forward Pockets into Midfielders? Usually, it is the other way around for obvious reasons relating to fitness.

Have been concerned that although we look great with Hawk and Pods at dull flight, if they are down on form or we encounter Freo tactics, we look a little impotent.

It seems our knowledge and structure from the halcyon years is being adopted by the Hawks and we have moved away somewhat from the multi prong attack.

Would just like to see SJ, if tagged, go deep forward again...he would have destroyed Crowley last week if this was case.

 

[Partridge]

I'd actually love to see him at a center bounce...the position he won a brownlow medal in. Put kelly/corey/varcoe down back instead.

Last tried against North last season. We got belted. We cannot have Bartel and Corey and Kelly in the midfield at once. Too old and too slow. They've made a sort of acknowledgement by playing Bartel in the backline. It's still a problem though.

It's not 2007, people should stop talking about him being a gun midfielder because he just isn't anymore. Either that or the match committee are spectacularly incompetent.

 

[Partridge]

I have 2 thoughts on this -

1 - I'd argue he's not been given the chance to play in the guts and show his value
2 - IMO he's been killing wherever they put him all year, have you thought he's not going that well?

Disagree strongly with point 2. He's been solid, played some good games, he's played some shockers too.

 

[bigman12]

Its a massive conundrum because in earnest the only realistic fix is to concede submission in the ruck and adapt accordingly.

I don't think tap numbers in general are going to be a reliable measure of value given the fact its plain to see that we are getting butchered at critical times in key clearances, I.e Third quarter Freo goals

My measure comes down to a bit more of gut feel, and although this is also not reliable in any way shape or form, I just have observed the likes of Vardy and Blicavs influence the game more than West in the ruck. This has especially been relevant in VFL observations and there have been multiple occasions where I have been left disappointed by Wests rucking in comparison to both Vardy and Blicavs....most notably Wests performances against Coburg, Sandringham and Williamstown (where West was comprehensively beaten by Wood).

These observations have led me to believe that we are better off backing in Blicavs and Vardy rather than turning to West who will offer us very little extra benefit in direct ruck contests.

Happy again to concede differences of opinions and the stats do indicate West has a better hitout per game average, but gut feel just tells me different.

Going to be more interested in how CS responds around the clearances with structures and personnel......could see the likes of Jimmy return to middle more often. GHS could also potentially be an option and would hope we implement some better defensive setups when closer to goal!

West had 66 hitouts against Cameron Wood yesterday. . . . just saying

 

[FredLeDeux]

West had 66 hitouts against Cameron Wood yesterday. . . . just saying

Yes, absolutely dominant.
And a lot of them were classic down-yer-throaters.

 

[speedybundy]

Tough to win clearances when our current n1 would be just about the worst of any team in the league, in the first half of the year Scott countered this brilliantly by having Bartel loose behind the ball to win the next kick after the center clearance. Unfortunately this is has come a bit unstuck in recent weeks.

The most concerning aspect for mine has been the lack of forward structure, which has significantly added to Tom Hawkins form slump. We saw in the 2nd half on Friday how Tom can still be a very viable forward target even if his sore when our structures right.

 

[GeelongFTW]

My pick would be Kelly, and I wouldn't hesitate for a second before doing it. For this week too. But we all know it won't happen.

thank god we didnt do that.

 

[GeelongFTW]

and I've got no relatives in Tassie.

Do Now!

​

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Yes, absolutely dominant.
And a lot of them were classic down-yer-throaters.

Gotta say, he looked very good. Where has that been all season?

Very tempting to bring him back on basis of that performance, which is clearly his best of the year.

Vardy was also pretty good against Lobbe though....would be tough to replace him. Could Blicavs be replaced?

Be interested to see how CS rated that West performance as plenty have talked it up, and justifiably.