Joel Selwood and Scott Pendlebury – A comparison (AKA The AFL fixture system is an unfunny joke)

[Hinkley29]

We have gather round..we have game being sold and we have teams where they have duality of domain. Its in Geelong interest to play games at the G. Not only for the home gate but the chance to play at the game where finals are decided is an advantage that should not be easily dismissed. One might say we have the best of both worlds. A home ground where have a strong likelihood of a win and a ground where we have a couple of home games played to prepare us for the chance to play finals and to give Melbourne based members an easier chance to attend

The days of playing at Etihad as ahome game are gone. Games at the Geelong will be a strong part of our fixture but I cant see the rationale of playing Collingwood at Geelong while they are a top side. Maybe if they drop.

One big side game once a year would be nice. Historically I think Kp has 5 attendances above 40,000 and they were car , coll and ess related.
Whats more important , if Geelong can average an attendance in the 30 thousands for KP once we have the ground is done... it will be a higher average than we have ever had and probably make Geelong affluent.

I don’t care what is or isnt in Geelongs interest. In the interest of a fair competition for all teams, all teams should be forced to play all home games at their home grounds.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Err, home ground advantage?

But what about 2011 - we played them 3 times at the MCG - and beat them easily on each occassion - their only 3 losses for that entire season

What do you want a Gold watch as well !!!

Where the competition loses all credabilility in my opinion - is when you have situations - like Melb years back - short of a quid - so they sold their home Vic game against West Coast - to the Eagles - so they played them at Subiaco - when you get to that stage - youve got no integrity in the comp

And i know for a fact - that when Geel were broke - the SANFL - were enticing the Cats hard with the cheque book to play some home games at the unrenovated Adelaide Oval when it had trees - i wonder how close the Cats came to playing some home games their - we will probably never know .

 

[catempire]

But what about 2011 - we played them 3 times at the MCG - and beat them easily on each occassion - their only 3 losses for that entire season

What do you want a Gold watch as well !!!

Where the competition loses all credabilility in my opinion - is when you have situations - like Melb years back - short of a quid - so they sold their home Vic game against West Coast - to the Eagles - so they played them at Subiaco - when you get to that stage - youve got no integrity in the comp

And i know for a fact - that when Geel were broke - the SANFL - were enticing the Cats hard with the cheque book to play some home games at the unrenovated Adelaide Oval when it had trees - i wonder how close the Cats came to playing some home games their - we will probably never know .

Are you denying home ground advantage exists?

 

[Goggin Our Best]

Are you denying home ground advantage exists?

Well historically going right right back in Geelongs history - the Cats go allright at the MCG - allways have - i can remember the early 70s - Geel were hopeless - and Rich were a powerhouse and Geel flogged them a couple of times at the G . No better example than 1972 - Cats lossed their opening 10 games - Rich went into the GF that year at Phar Lap type odds ( got beat ) but the Cats played the Tigers in the 2nd half of the year at the MCG and beat them by 13 goals - and if they had kicked straight they would have won by 20 plus goals

Where as in contrast - Waverly - bar the odd good win here and their - it was a disaster - give me Kardinia Park any day in preference to Waverly

 

[Vdubs]

Fairness in the context of this discussion is every team playing the same number of home games at their home ground.

There are other things that affect fairness too. I agree they are hard to eliminate with an 18 team competition and a 24 round H&A season. Any “solution” (eg. Reducing the number of games, increasing the number of games or rotating who gets the single home game across seasons) is imperfect and won’t deliver true fairness on this front.

But just because there are Hard Things To Solve it doesn’t mean the AFL shouldn’t solve something that is absolutely simple and fair to do - give Geelong as many home games as every other club.

Geelong FC actually likes a few home games at the G

 

[Baudolino]

But what about 2011 - we played them 3 times at the MCG - and beat them easily on each occassion - their only 3 losses for that entire season

Geelong have won matches on the MCG before, therefore home ground advantage isn't a thing.

Brilliant logic.

 

[standupand]

But what about 2011 - we played them 3 times at the MCG - and beat them easily on each occassion - their only 3 losses for that entire season

What do you want a Gold watch as well !!!

Where the competition loses all credabilility in my opinion - is when you have situations - like Melb years back - short of a quid - so they sold their home Vic game against West Coast - to the Eagles - so they played them at Subiaco - when you get to that stage - youve got no integrity in the comp

And i know for a fact - that when Geel were broke - the SANFL - were enticing the Cats hard with the cheque book to play some home games at the unrenovated Adelaide Oval when it had trees - i wonder how close the Cats came to playing some home games their - we will probably never know .

I don't get it. A club choosing to play their home games at another venue for money - how does that undermine the integrity of the comp more than the AFL dictating that one club must play some of their home games at the opposition's home ground?
The underlying principle is that any club should get to choose where it plays its home games.

 

[Vdubs]

I don't get it. A club choosing to play their home games at another venue for money - how does that undermine the integrity of the comp more than the AFL dictating that one club must play some of their home games at the opposition's home ground?
The underlying principle is that any club should get to choose where it plays its home games.

Do you get that a criticism used to be that we were awesome at Geelong, but poor at the G?
Embracing home games at the G, which they do, may help us in September, which it has.

I know- we have to get there, and we need all the wins we can....

 

[standupand]

Do you get that a criticism used to be that we were awesome at Geelong, but poor at the G?
Embracing home games at the G, which they do, may help us in September, which it has.

I know- we have to get there, and we need all the wins we can....

Yeah I do get that argument. And if the club chose to play those home games there for strategic advantage or for whatever reason, of course that's fine.
But that's not what happens.
Club requests all it's home games at KP but only gets given 8 or 9 + a final only when it's convenient to the AFL.
Just mind-boggling. And a good example of what Scott described as the most compromised first-tier competition on earth.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Well no it matters who was the actual better player.

shannon byrnes did not controbute more to football then gary ablett senior as an extreme example.

and for me selwood wins the better player contest too.

Really Seeds? Of course that's what I'm saying.

You can't compare duds to superstars just on premierships.

However, when the numbers, accolades, achievements etc are tough to split...I'm taking the guy who's got 4 vs the guy who's got 1.

Furthermore, how many ridiculous off field scandals have occured with Pendlebury as captain? How many inspirational wins did Pendlebury lead Collingwood to?

It's Selwood everyday of the week, no matter which way you look at it.

 

[Jemaine]

This - Collingwood should play Geel at Kardinia Park arguement - which some posters are pushing for - you know its not fair blah blah blah blah

Well i can remember 2011 very fondly - a Geel Premiership year - and i think most Geel supporters can also remember very fondly - the last home and away game of that season - the Cats flogged the Magpies by 96 pts - they dont even have to check the record book - because that 96 pt decisive margin is etched in their brain

I dont know whose home game that was - but for mine - you could not get a better tune up for the finals and as it turned out the GF - playing the no 1 team at the home of the GF - the MCG In the final round of the home and away season

And i think it is fair comment to say - that 96 pt win over Coll at MCG would have given the Geel players tremendous confidence when they played Coll in the GF that year

And if we played round 1 at KP this year instead of at their home ground we potentially have a much better start to the season and aren't scraping for a finals spot.

 

[goyoucatters]

Yeah I do get that argument. And if the club chose to play those home games there for strategic advantage or for whatever reason, of course that's fine.
But that's not what happens.
Club requests all it's home games at KP but only gets given 8 or 9 + a final only when it's convenient to the AFL.
Just mind-boggling. And a good example of what Scott described as the most compromised first-tier competition on earth.

So much this. And yet the AFL and its cronies in the media have done such a good job peddling their narrative on this issue that we even have a bunch of our own supporters believing that the club still explicitly requests to play home games at the 'G every season.

#simplynottrue
#thecoachwasright
#aflthatssomefurphyyourerunning
#stayclassygeelong

 

[JohnZ]

A fair fixture would be a full H+A season. With 18 clubs, that's 34 rounds. 17 at home, 17 away. Honestly at this point I'm all for it.

The biggest issue with the fixture is the Melbourne stadiums. We need a third smaller stadium (be it E-gate, Princes Park or Junction Oval etc) which would be ~30k. 9 Melbourne Clubs playing 17 home games each is 153 games. MCG and Marvel both require 45 games each season, another ground with 45 games leaves an additional 18 games which can be sold interstate/overseas. Also leaves Geelong to have their 17 games in Geelong.

The stadium deals in Melbourne are the biggest stumbling block to making the fixture fairer. The big blockbusters can all be at the MCG, the games that draw a crowd can be played at Marvel and the games which no one wants to go watch (basically any GWS or GC game) can be played at the third stadium. The Melbourne teams would not be entitled to a home ground, that's the trade off for having neutral shared venues.

The fixture would need to be flexible enough that whilst the fixture can be locked in for days and times, games should be able to be swapped up or down based off predicted crowds, which as we know can be somewhat unpredictable later in the season depending on results.

A top 4 finals series would see a 36 week season. Instead of teams having byes, players would need to have byes (ie Players can only play a maximum of 30 H+A games per season, plus finals if they make it). The minor premiership becomes more celebrated (like in the EPL), but we retain our premiership as the culmination of a years work.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

And if we played round 1 at KP this year instead of at their home ground we potentially have a much better start to the season and aren't scraping for a finals spot.

Based on what ? - your opinion - not hard facts and fixtures

1999 - the last time Collingwood had to travel down the highway to play Geel in Geelong

While the Magpies lost their last 3 games at the venue they can still boast a record that not many other clubs can - A WINNING RECORD AT KARDINIA PARK

Oh - but - but - but - but -but-but -but -----------------------------------------------------------

 

[Vdubs]

And if we played round 1 at KP this year instead of at their home ground we potentially have a much better start to the season and aren't scraping for a finals spot.

Nice argument, but we were gone in the last quarter badly- fitness- Pies strength- and having lost to GWS at home early season, not so sure we win that one

 

[goyoucatters]

Based on what ? - your opinion - not hard facts and fixtures

1999 - the last time Collingwood had to travel down the highway to play Geel in Geelong

While the Magpies lost their last 3 games at the venue they can still boast a record that not many other clubs can - A WINNING RECORD AT KARDINIA PARK

Oh - but - but - but - but -but-but -but -----------------------------------------------------------

There's only two clubs in the comp that have a winning record against us at Kardinia Park - Carlton and Collingwood. And they've almost entirely avoided having to play us there since our run of premiership success that began in 2007. We have a winning record (2-1) against the Blues at the venue since that time. And we haven't played the Pies there since the previous millenium.

So there's very solid reasoning why we would choose to play all our home games at the Cattery. We win more than we lose there historically against virtually every club.

And our winning percentage at K.P. against the Blues and the Pies (despite being precluded from playing them there for many years recently) is still higher than our overall winning percentage against them. So the numbers over time absolutely still support playing them at home as our best prospect of a win.

All of which means that if you're wanting to use the annals of history as a guide, the Cats would be best advised to play every single game at home against every single opponent.

It really is that simple.

AFL Tables: Geelong - Venues - Team by Team

 

[Goggin Our Best]

There's only two clubs in the comp that have a winning record against us at Kardinia Park - Carlton and Collingwood. And they've almost entirely avoided having to play us there since our run of premiership success that began in 2007. We have a winning record (2-1) against the Blues at the venue since that time. And we haven't played the Pies there since the previous millenium.

So there's very solid reasoning why we would choose to play all our home games at the Cattery. We win more than we lose there historically against virtually every club.

And our winning percentage at K.P. against the Blues and the Pies (despite being precluded from playing them there for many years recently) is still higher than our overall winning percentage against them. So the numbers over time absolutely still support playing them at home as our best prospect of a win.

All of which means that if you're wanting to use the annals of history as a guide, the Cats would be best advised to play every single game at home against every single opponent.

It really is that simple.

AFL Tables: Geelong - Venues - Team by Team

Thats is it -Actual facts - and a decent statistical mean average - the rest of your post is just waffle and your assumptions

 

[Cataholic]

Thats is it -Actual facts - and a decent statistical mean average - the rest of your post is just waffle and your assumptions

No..... it's an extrapolation that makes sense with the known facts.

 

[Jemaine]

Nice argument, but we were gone in the last quarter badly- fitness- Pies strength- and having lost to GWS at home early season, not so sure we win that one

So you're saying a game on our smaller ground would have kept us in the game for longer? I like this positive Veedubs.

 

[Jemaine]

Based on what ? - your opinion - not hard facts and fixtures

1999 - the last time Collingwood had to travel down the highway to play Geel in Geelong

While the Magpies lost their last 3 games at the venue they can still boast a record that not many other clubs can - A WINNING RECORD AT KARDINIA PARK

Oh - but - but - but - but -but-but -but -----------------------------------------------------------

Lighten up Francis, you come across a bit aggressive.

You're probably right though, Collingwood fans in the future will point to their round 22 demolition of the reigning premiers as the perfect tune up for their 2023 premiership run.

 

[Vdubs]

So you're saying a game on our smaller ground would have kept us in the game for longer? I like this positive Veedubs.

um.... no, but nice way to make your point.

 

[SkittleCats]

I cant believe i am actually reading Geelong fans arguing for us not to have 11 home games at our home ground...just mind boggling...The media and the AFL certainly have done their job well.

 

[winty]

Further to this, this week's game will be Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

's 305th game as coach. How many of those were played at GMHBA?

 

[Hinkley29]

Further to this, this week's game will be Chris Scott's 305th game as coach. How many of those were played at GMHBA?

Based on his career record, it would take Pendlebury approx. 6.26 seasons to play that many games at the MCG. Chris Scott has taken 12.8 seasons to coach that many games at KP. Crazy stuff

 

[Hinkley29]

You aren’t going to believe this, but Friday nights game against Collingwood is going to be played at the MCG.

Who would have thought?