Christians are easily startled, but they'll soon be back. And in greater numbers 36:11

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Boston tiger]

Atheism is just a disbelief in the claim that god(s) exist. Until someone produces evidence for the existence of a god, there's no logical reason to consider it real.

Forming an evidence based worldview isn't arrogant at all. Believing by faith has no objectivity - you can believe in Bible God, allah, that 5G causes COVID, or a flat earth.

Faith is ridiculed in other facets of life, and rightly so, because it's unwise to base your worldview on subjective evidence when objective evidence exists.

We know that prayer doesn't work and we know that creationism is pseudoscience; we have better explanations for virtually everything the bible purports to call truth.

Occam's razor suggests an eternal universe is more probable than an eternal god.

The simple facts of the matter for me are that either 1. There is no god or 2. God has chosen to provide zero evidence for it's existence.

Theism is linked to culture and beliefs of our parents - nobody believes until they're indoctrinated. Someone born in Pakistan will be tortured to Hell for eternity purely because of where they're born.

None of it makes sense.

Could we be living in a matrix? I'd say that's far more probable than Christianity.

I'll believe in God when someone shows me objective evidence. So far all we've been given is alleged changed lives. Ive read books that have changed my life - it doesn't take a supernatural entity to do that.

What’s a matrix ?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Atheism is just a disbelief in the claim that god(s) exist. Until someone produces evidence for the existence of a god, there's no logical reason to consider it real.

Forming an evidence based worldview isn't arrogant at all. Believing by faith has no objectivity - you can believe in Bible God, allah, that 5G causes COVID, or a flat earth.

Faith is ridiculed in other facets of life, and rightly so, because it's unwise to base your worldview on subjective evidence when objective evidence exists.

We know that prayer doesn't work and we know that creationism is pseudoscience; we have better explanations for virtually everything the bible purports to call truth.

Occam's razor suggests an eternal universe is more probable than an eternal god.

The simple facts of the matter for me are that either 1. There is no god or 2. God has chosen to provide zero evidence for it's existence.

Theism is linked to culture and beliefs of our parents - nobody believes until they're indoctrinated. Someone born in Pakistan will be tortured to Hell for eternity purely because of where they're born.

None of it makes sense.

Could we be living in a matrix? I'd say that's far more probable than Christianity.

I'll believe in God when someone shows me objective evidence. So far all we've been given is alleged changed lives. Ive read books that have changed my life - it doesn't take a supernatural entity to do that.

Everybody laminate this and stick it on their fridge door.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It just makes me sad that the right seem to have exploited Christianity.

Is that you, Bishop Budde?

 

[ElectricG]

Can anyone explain this meme to me? Makes no sense to me at all. Is there a joke I’m not getting?

Who is this guy? Is he supposed to be speaking from beyond the grave?

Was an article in my feed about an atheist who had a near death experience and was converted. There is an old internet stereotype about how atheists wear fedoras (in addition to cargo pants and graphic print button up shirts).

 

[Boston tiger]

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Can anyone explain this meme to me? Makes no sense to me at all. Is there a joke I’m not getting?

Who is this guy? Is he supposed to be speaking from beyond the grave?

This is what I got out of it ..

The guy was an atheist and died and came back to life and what he experienced when he was “ dead” made him not atheist.

The comment I’m thinking is about is no matter how big a profound experience we have had and what amazing unique knowledge we possess. … this guy still has to keep the look going …..( he’s still one of us )

looking good in the mirror is still king etc

 

[evolved2]

What’s a matrix ?

Simulation hypothesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I recommend these movies if you haven't seen them:

The Matrix - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Thirteenth Floor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Was an article in my feed about an atheist who had a near death experience and was converted. There is an old internet stereotype about how atheists wear fedoras (in addition to cargo pants and graphic print button up shirts).

OK thanks I was unaware of the fedora meme.

But gee the syntax makes no sense at all.

An atheist “went to heaven”? So why believe in a god if you’re going to heaven anyway?

Would we even have beliefs in a putative afterlife?

And atheism is not a belief, it is the absence of a belief.

Anyway, play on!

 

[Boston tiger]

[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]" data-quote="SBD Gonzalez" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

OK thanks I was unaware of the fedora meme.

But gee the syntax makes no sense at all.

An atheist “went to heaven”? So why believe in a god if you’re going to heaven anyway?

Would we even have beliefs in a putative afterlife?

And atheism is not a belief, it is the absence of a belief.

Anyway, play on!

Well he didn’t believe in God and now he does because of his near death experience. Some have a real negative experience with a hell theme. Some people have nothing much to report Either way it’s a bit out there and often they become a bit spiritual. Don’t what else is there to say. It is what it is.

 

[Vdubs]

Given that nobody knows anything for certain, and that we are all searching-even atheists who claim they just don't believe in having a belief...?as long as we can all respect each others' opinions and beliefs..
Total Power asked me why I bring up C.S Lewis - well essentially it's because he represents all Christians, no denominations at all, and his important book Mere Christianity highlights that. What Christians have in common, rather than their differences. His thoughts, interpretations, writings, insights and stories, coming from the atheist he was, have shaped the lives of many who have found Theism and then Christianity to be sensible for them, particularly those coming from an atheistic background.

 

[Boston tiger]

Is there a reason why I should?

Well they have ignored the abrupt end of Acts . It’s all about Paul and his arrest and building up to his court case and then suddenly stops around 57 AD without giving us the result . If we put the Gospels after the fall of the temple then of course the Acts are later still and Luke has to have known the result of the court case and could even write up Paul’s martyrdom. But he doesn’t.
So Luke’s gospel predates the Acts and Mark predates Luke. Acts written in the year time period waiting for the trial pushes 2 of the Gospels back quite a bit .

Post fall of temple dates rely on the theory Paul didn’t quote the Gospels ( a time when oral tradition was king ) . And that Jesus couldn’t have predicted the fall of the temple and the Gospel writers are telling fibs.

What you will find Roy is that in the world of publish or perish that more and more scholars will push the status quo and you will see more theories on earlier Gospel dates. Wouldnt be surprised if Bartman has lash. There isn’t much else to theorise about as it’s all been pretty well hashed out.
Mythical Jesus had a bit of a run for awhile as did super late Gospel dates .


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[evolved2]

So those who created the simulation are godless but have created a simulation where by God is the product of evolution just for shits and giggles?

Ps

Good on you for creating a topic that i can finally “ ask an atheist” about that I don’t already know the answer.

I’m going to have to leave you all alone now and see if I can get this crazy emoji stuff sorted.

Those emojis confuse me more than theism!

I'm gonna start looking for patterns in the numbers if you keep posting them.

 

[Boston tiger]

Simulation hypothesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I recommend these movies if you haven't seen them:

The Matrix - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Thirteenth Floor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So those who created the simulation are godless but have created a simulation where by God is the product of evolution just for shits and giggles?

Ps

Good on you for creating a topic that i can finally “ ask an atheist” about that I don’t already know the answer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Roylion]

Given that nobody knows anything for certain,

And that's all I've been saying. Any claim to truth needs to be backed by evidence to determine the likelohood it is actually true.

and that we are all searching-

Searching for truth. And arriving at that truth with the weight of robust, empirical evidence in support of those truths. Anything believed purely of the basis of faith cannot be said - by definition - to be true.

as long as we can all respect each others' opinions and beliefs..

I tend give more weight to those that have robust supporting evidence.

 

[evolved2]

So those who created the simulation are godless but have created a simulation where by God is the product of evolution just for shits and giggles?

Ps

Good on you for creating a topic that i can finally “ ask an atheist” about that I don’t already know the answer.


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You responded twice to the same post. Are you flustered?

 

[Boston tiger]

You responded twice to the same post. Are you flustered?

The first time was with all the crazy emojis .. the second time was after I fixed the problem… which is apparently something going on with iPhone 16 and Tapatalk pro


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[evolved2]

The first time was with all the crazy emojis .. the second time was after I fixed the problem… which is apparently something going on with iPhone 16 and Tapatalk pro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All good, buddy.

 

[liz]

...?as long as we can all respect each others' opinions and beliefs..

I don’t respect your (Christian) beliefs in the slightest. I do, however, totally respect your right to have them and to act on them in your private sphere.

My problem with religion arises when some attempt to institutionalise those beliefs and impose them on others in the public sphere.

 

[GrayRanga]

I don’t respect your (Christian) beliefs in the slightest. I do, however, totally respect your right to have them and to act on them in your private sphere.

My problem with religion arises when some attempt to institutionalise those beliefs and impose them on others in the public sphere.

Well that one lingers like a bad smell, women at the head of the family, compamies, governments and churches?

How many women have died this year because they have failed to submit to the male in a relationship?

Ok to keep slaves. how does this relate to a Country's Industrial Relations laws where thw poor have to rely on the Govenment support because employers won't pay a living wage

 

[Boston tiger]

Well that one lingers like a bad smell, women at the head of the family, compamies, governments and churches?

How many women have died this year because they have failed to submit to the male in a relationship?

Ok to keep slaves. how does this relate to a Country's Industrial Relations laws where thw poor have to rely on the Govenment support because employers won't pay a living wage

y Kevin J. Jones

Washington D.C., Sep 7, 2020 / 03:49 am

At a time when labor unions are weak, Catholics still have a place in the labor movement, said a priest who emphasized the Church's historic efforts to teach the rights of labor and train workers to organize.
"On the local and state level, Catholics are a major part of the labor movement. They took to heart our Catholic social teaching, and tried to implement it in their workplace," Father Sinclair Oubre, the spiritual moderator of the Catholic Labor Network, told CNA.
However, he said, there is sometimes a disconnect between Catholics and support for organized labor.
"Like in so many areas of our faith, the heresy of radical individualism, a lack of knowledge about why unions were formed, and a general ignorance of what options workers have, have led to many Catholics to either not realize that the Church has favored workers' associations, or that the Church even has a teaching that has to do with the workplace."


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[Roylion]

Well they have ignored the abrupt end of Acts . It’s all about Paul and his arrest and building up to his court case and then suddenly stops around 57 AD without giving us the result .

The Book of Acts ends with Paul in Rome alive and preaching unfettered (Acts 28:30–31)

There's absolutely expectation that just because you tell a story about someone in the past that if you do not narrate a character's death that means they're still alive.

Otherwise, there are very good reasons to date Luke-Acts late, such as the use of Mark (written around 70), the plausible use of Josephus (Steve Mason's argument), general social history which reflects a later time period, etc.

There's the simple possibility that the author of Acts just didn't know. We don't have any contemporary accounts of Paul’s death. He just disappeared from the historical record, although traditions from several decades afterwards indicate that he was martyred. The earliest reference comes in the letter from the church of Rome to the church of Corinth known as 1 Clement, written around AD 95, some thirty years after the traditional date for Paul’s death.

The book of Acts ends with; "He lived there two whole years at his own expense, and welcomed all who came to him, proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance” (Acts 28:30)

Acts isn't meant as history. It tells the story of a message that was rejected by the Jews and embraced by the Gentiles. Historically it is sometimes inaccurate and not always a reliable source, from a historical point of view.

So Luke’s gospel predates the Acts and Mark predates Luke. Acts written in the year time period waiting for the trial pushes 2 of the Gospels back quite a bit .

Conservative evangelical scholars want to claim that Acts was written before Paul’s death in around AD 64 (since otherwise the author would surely have narrated his death). They then argue that therefore Luke’s Gospel (written by the same author) was written before then. So they argue both Luke and Acts are nearer to the times they describe and that they are more likely (so it is assumed, by implication) to be historically accurate and so add weight to their claims that the events described did actually happen.

Post fall of temple dates rely on the theory Paul didn’t quote the Gospels ( a time when oral tradition was king ) . And that Jesus couldn’t have predicted the fall of the temple and the Gospel writers are telling fibs.

Luke suggests in Luke 1:1 that “many” have written the story about Jesus’ life "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us"..

Jesus’ judgment on the Temple in Mark "Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." (Mark 13.2) and his announcement of its desecration. “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (Mark 13:14) are repeated by the author of the Gospel of Luke.

Luke 21:6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.” and Luke 21:20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Luke 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

Luke readjusts Jesus’ 'prophecy' by writing about “Jerusalem surrounded by armies”

This editorial change on Luke’s part mirrors a description of the siege and capture of Jerusalem in AD 70, which means that the third Gospel was definitely written after AD 70. As was Mark's.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Well he didn’t believe in God and now he does because of his near death experience. Some have a real negative experience with a hell theme. Some people have nothing much to report Either way it’s a bit out there and often they become a bit spiritual. Don’t what else is there to say. It is what it is.

Yeah I get it now but the way it's expressed makes either no sense at all on face value, or virtually makes the exact opposite point they presumably are wanting to make. Perhaps English is not their first language?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

My problem with religion arises when some attempt to institutionalise those beliefs and impose them on others in the public sphere.

Which IS a problem because Christianity as it is mostly interpreted is a proselytising religion. Can't put a figure on it but a lot, if not most Christians seem to feel they're not being true, full Christians unless they're half way to converting someone.

(Vdubs excepted.)

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

A brave bishop stumped Trump. You could call it a Bible bashing

Donald Trump has presented himself as a Christian champion, but a Washington cleric just reminded him what Christianity is actually about.

www.smh.com.au

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of Christians on here of Bishop Budde and her sermon.

Is she a "true" Christian and was her message the true one of Jesus? (for the record, I say yes and yes. This is the Christianity I was raised in.)

If so, where does that leave those Christians who were openly hostile to her message? Are they not "true" Christians?

And how as Christians do you deal with such diametrically opposing examples of what Christianity is in practise?

 

[evolved2]

Which IS a problem because Christianity as it is mostly interpreted is a proselytising religion. Can't put a figure on it but a lot, if not most Christians seem to feel they're not being true, full Christians unless they're half way to converting someone.

(Vdubs excepted.)

The proselytising doesn't bother me nearly as much as the desire for political power.

 

[Total Power]

Given that nobody knows anything for certain, and that we are all searching-even atheists who claim they just don't believe in having a belief...?as long as we can all respect each others' opinions and beliefs..

Nope, i don't have to respect you calling me a sinner. I ain't so sinner and sin in Bible is absolutely bullshit. I don't have to 'respect' threats of blasphemy and hell..which many of my Christian friends tend to do at times (maybe not you).

I have no issues if you blokes keep your beliefs to yourself instead of trying to 'proselytize'. Both The Abrahamic religions are very well known for this but we are apparently supposed to respect that.

Total Power asked me why I bring up C.S Lewis - well essentially it's because he represents all Christians, no denominations at all, and his important book Mere Christianity highlights that. What Christians have in common, rather than their differences. His thoughts, interpretations, writings, insights and stories, coming from the atheist he was, have shaped the lives of many who have found Theism and then Christianity to be sensible for them, particularly those coming from an atheistic background.

Nope, he had plenty of opposition within the Christian world. J.R.R Tolkien for example was his friend but he also criticised C.S Lewis a lot. As i wrote before his audience were the fence-sitting Christian. When i was a Christian his book Mere Christianity was pretty unappealing to me. I made a long post about it before.