Clash Jumpers

[Rob]

Re: Alternate Guernsey??

131 years is a very long time to wear the exact same design.

Only changes are AFL and sponsors logos.

You don't see the contradiction there? The league logo you can't do much about, but Essendon can't run around claiming the moral high ground about 'keeping their tradition' when they are more than happy to alter their jumper to include sponsors logos when money is involved.

 

[VANDA]

Re: Alternate Guernsey??

You don't see the contradiction there? The league logo you can't do much about, but Essendon can't run around claiming the moral high ground about 'keeping their tradition' when they are more than happy to alter their jumper to include sponsors logos when money is involved.

Clutching at straws their arent you........?

The basic design / colours of the jumper have never changed!

 

[Rob]

Re: Alternate Guernsey??

Clutching at straws their arent you........?

The basic design / colours of the jumper have never changed!

Not clutching at straws at all, just stating fact.

Apparently red with a black sash is a huge blow to tradition, yet company logos of various colours can be included on the jumper and that's fine? WTF?

 

[VANDA]

Re: Alternate Guernsey??

Not clutching at straws at all, just stating fact.

Apparently red with a black sash is a huge blow to tradition, yet company logos of various colours can be included on the jumper and that's fine? WTF?

and how is red with a black sash going to help in a game against Melbourne which is commonly identified by some short-sighted people as a game of particular concern?

 

[Mero]

Re: Alternate Guernsey??

Not clutching at straws at all, just stating fact.

Apparently red with a black sash is a huge blow to tradition, yet company logos of various colours can be included on the jumper and that's fine? WTF?

You're either misunderstand or misrepresenting Clash jumpers.
Essendon won't bring one out before they are made to do it, so unless they're told to, they won't.
The AFL have clearly specified if they are going to bring them in, they are going to mandate that they be in non-clash colours.
Red and Black will not be allowed for Essendon, as they are the supposed clashing colours.
If Melbourne and Geelong want to, good luck to them, wear it as often as they like. But unless the AFL tell Essendon to wear silver or lime green, they will continue to wear Black with a Red Sash even if, heaven forbid, opposition supporters think it is unfair.

 

[Two-Bobby]

An interesting question.....

Having derived itself from the VFL originally, the "traditional" AFL has used the same strips for several decades - are we saying that only NOW the jumpers are too similar and should be changed?

Is this a problem that has miraculously appeared all of a sudden?

In the days of B&W television, you use to watch the games and I can recall some difficulty in watching Collingwood Vs North Melbourne. Yet we got by by noticing the shorts and socks and left it at that. To the players, of course, it wasn't that much of a problem because they were playing the game "in colour", so they could plainly distinguish between the black and blue stripes.

Even then, however, mud and wet conditions could always play a part in making jumpers appear similar to players. Even this aspect is less of an issue in today's game due to the immaculate aspect of the way grounds are kept and the way we can now even limit the impact of the weather (eg. telstra Dome).

Despite all of the obstacles faced by past teams (Ess Vs Rich, Coll Vs Nth), I very rarely saw players make the mistake of handballing to the wrong player (ie. the opposition). To the spectator, sure - it may have been difficult...but it is far LESS of an issue today with colour TV, less muddy ovals (remember the club ovals during winter) and greater number of cameras covering the game.

So why is it any sort of issue if a club DOESN'T want to change their strip?

Surely this should be the CLUB'S prerogative...not anyone else's. Are we (as spectators) too stupid to be able to identify who's who during EVERY MINUTE of a game? A pack situation on the far side of the oval makes it no easier for me to necessarily witness which team has the ball even should it be that one team was wearing yellow and another wearing blue!

I know that this might present some argument from certain teams that may have entered the competition in recent years and not had the availability of the jumper colour they would have liked but this is a legacy of the AFL having really "evolved" out of the VFL - so not alot can really be done about that unfortunately.

Personally, I have no real problem should my team (Collingwood) want to play in B&W or in Teal&Yellow. But I think every team deserves the right to determine whether they will or will not play in alternate strips. I think that the "traditional" argument is used by the Pies because they may feel there is a need to justify why they won't change. I believe, however, that no team needs a justification!

I can see the global trend of multiple strips as nothing more than clever marketing to enable Clubs and competitions to cash on different clothing styles and colours at the expense of fanatical supporter bases.

The AFL competition is not really big enough yet (in terms of number of teams) to really suffer from a "lack of available colours/designs" for footy jumpers. It is a single division competition with a fixed 16 teams.

So that's my take on it.

I understand the difficulty for new entrants into the competition (specifically Port Adelaide) who weren't able to adopt their traditional strip because of it already existed in the competition. I would venture to say that if Collingwood were to field a team for the SANFL, then the shoe would be on the other foot and THEY would have to select and alternative strip. That's the nature of "first in best dressed" and no club should be made to feel that they are "not playing ball" because they simply want to maintain the status quo!

TB

 

[Blues_Man]

Explain how the public 100 years ago could cope just fine and the public now can't. How many people would not go to a game or not watch the telly because of it? I mean, really. Has there been any survey done or is it just your gut feeling?

This thread has been done to death almost as many times as the 'how many premierships has port won?' thread.

what a really dumb comparison ,100 years ago the footy moved at a snails pace , when a player took a mark he casually walked back 20 yards and then strolled forward and kicked a mongrel punt as far as he could ..in the general direction of the forward line . they only handpassed when they were being tackled and couldn't get a kick away

 

[tigerdan]

what a really dumb comparison ,100 years ago the footy moved at a snails pace , when a player took a mark he casually walked back 20 yards and then strolled forward and kicked a mongrel punt as far as he could ..in the general direction of the forward line . they only handpassed when they were being tackled and couldn't get a kick away

So you're saying the jumpers should be changed for the benefit of the players, not the spectators? Fair enough, but most of the arguments here are based on TV pressure rather than players not liking it.

Did footy move at snail's pace 20 years ago?

Like I have said before, the percieved clash affects maybe 5% of all games played. I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[Maazo]

Like many others, I don't see the drama with an alternate strip for so-called "clash games". From reading Mero's comments, the AFL seems intent on making the clubs in question in having a guernsey with a colour removed from their current ones.

The problem with a lot of the current clashes isn't the colours per se, but the PROPORTIONS of colour. One of the most cited clashes we currently have are in the Essendon-Richmond games. This is because the two jumpers are predominantly black with maybe 10% of the jumper being another colour (in this case red or black). Surely this could be avoided by simply inverting the colours. For example, in it were Essendon's home game then the Tigers would wear a yellow guersney with a black sash.

Before the Bears came along, I was a Carlton supporter. In the games where the Blues play, Richmond, Essendon,Melbourne, and possibly Collingwood (in their current guersney, although this is arguably a clash), Fremantle, Adelaide and Port, I don't think I would've minded seeing Carlton in a predominantly white jumper with a navy CFC insignia.

If the AFL thinks it will succeed with any plans to introdue non-traditional colours, the will be (rightly) shouted down. Because the fans will not stand for it and the players might not be so crash hot on it either. The precedent for this happened in th NRL when the Brisbane Broncos introduced an aqua alternate strip - the fans hated it and the Broncos I don't think ever won a game in it.

 

[local]

I've posted it on this page:
http://www.angelfire.com/ok/fbtmisc/merojumpers2.html

It's horrible in so many ways, and was a run away winner in the Big Footy 'ugliest jumper ever' competition.

Hey! It's a great jumper to wash your car with!

 

[nonchalance]

Re: Alternate Guernsey??

Apparently red with a black sash is a huge blow to tradition, yet company logos of various colours can be included on the jumper and that's fine? WTF?

Actually, red with a black sash is both ugly and counterproductive - it doesn't fix the issue.
Personally, I'd rather just go with a system whereby the team with lighter colours wears white shorts and light socks and vice versa.
If Richmond wore yellow socks and white shorts against the Dons in black socks and shorts, no problem.
Essendon vs Melbourne - the Dees in navy shorts and socks, the Dons in white shorts and red socks, no problem.

 

[local]

I say bring back those little caps they use to waer in the early days.

 

[- PC -]

The Essendon "tradition" argument would hold more weight if they removed the sponsorship logo's.

The Collingwood "tradition" argument would hold more weight if they had a traditional jumper.

2.15 starts was tradition

Saturday football was tradition

Reserves matches was tradition

Shove your tradition up your clacker like TV has and embrace the change , stop living in the past and get with the program , and the program is TV $$$$ TV = $$$$$

 

[jimmy35]

Re: Alternate Guernsey??

Actually, red with a black sash is both ugly and counterproductive - it doesn't fix the issue.
Personally, I'd rather just go with a system whereby the team with lighter colours wears white shorts and light socks and vice versa.
If Richmond wore yellow socks and white shorts against the Dons in black socks and shorts, no problem.
Essendon vs Melbourne - the Dees in navy shorts and socks, the Dons in white shorts and red socks, no problem.

Thats a good post. Utilizing team colours that way should solve those problems.
Personally I dont see the need for 'clash' jumpers but being driven by television , the AFL will succumb and eventually insist on them.
If clubs want to wear a different strip , good on them. I actually like the Saints yellow one amongst others.

 

[Pessimistic]

Re: Alternate Guernsey??

Actually, red with a black sash is both ugly and counterproductive - it doesn't fix the issue.
Personally, I'd rather just go with a system whereby the team with lighter colours wears white shorts and light socks and vice versa.
If Richmond wore yellow socks and white shorts against the Dons in black socks and shorts, no problem.
Essendon vs Melbourne - the Dees in navy shorts and socks, the Dons in white shorts and red socks, no problem.

I'm with you exactly.

another fact is if a team had an alternat guernsey it might work against one opponent but not another.

The answer seems to be make adjustments against a team with a particular combination (and there are less than 5-6 real clashes in reality)

For example in the essendon cas there could also be a white number 'patch' on the back with black numbers, Melbourne numbers white on navy.

Keep the same combinations no matter who is home or away.

 

[dogsbody]

Too much emphasis is placed on the financial aspect of clash strips. That’s a by product, not the main reason. Whether clubs should have alternate/clash strips depends upon whether you believe that colours confuse. It’s not a big deal. If Essendon and Collingwood don’t want to change, why should they ? The business about constitutions, traditions etc. is a lot of tommyrot but if their supporters like to rabbit on about it, who cares. Let each club do what it wants to do. That’s what happens, anyway.

 

[Milenko]

And yes teams would care what they wore in a Grand Final.
Ask St Kilda fans how they feel about Baldock wearing a Collingwood jumper collecting their one an only cup. How would they feel if next time they win one Riewoldt is up there wearing yellow?

Saints wore the black cross on red and white background guernsey in the 1997 grand final, so what exactly is your point?

Yield to change you stubborn essenscum bastard!

 

[mantis]

Yield to change you stubborn essenscum bastard!

You can kiss our Red & Black arses.

 

[Johnson#26]

They should be optional. If a club wants one, they get it. If they don't leave it.