Collingwood must recruit hard tough players

[daics cousin]

For collingwood to win their next premiership we must go for Skill,speed,and tougness.
No grand final can be won with wimpy skinny,bodied players.Our current players must bulk up
We must be on the look out for players who have skill in kicking and are hard tough bodied players,we have too many lanky skinny types that keep getting smashed around.Think of the hard bodies we had in 1990.

We had the toughness and the finnese,these days we have neither.

 

[Quicky]

For collingwood to win their next premiership we must go for Skill,speed,and tougness.
No grand final can be won with wimpy skinny,bodied players.Our current players must bulk up
We must be on the look out for players who have skill in kicking and are hard tough bodied players,we have too many lanky skinny types that keep getting smashed around.Think of the hard bodies we had in 1990.

We had the toughness and the finnese,these days we have neither.

Kind of stating the obvious here. Might as well say Collingwood needs to get as many good players as possible.

Its fair that you say that we've lost a bit of toughness (through retirements) but we are hardly wimpy. As for no finesse your joking yeah?? Davis Thomas Didak Medhurst Pendlebury - I could go on - all have great finesse and skill.

Out of interest how do you propose that we get these players with 'skill, speed and toughness'?? Its alright to say we need these guys - thats obvious!! The question is how do we go about it??

 

[Aussie Style]

If only we kept our 7th pick in the 2004 draft instead of swapping it along with Bo Nixon to Hawthorn. We ended up getting soft as butter Chris Egan and Chad Morrison. Both no longer at the club, while they got Jordan Lewis, exactly what we need.

 

[Optimax]

If only we kept our 7th pick in the 2004 draft instead of swapping it along with Bo Nixon to Hawthorn. We ended up getting soft as butter Chris Egan and Chad Morrison. Both no longer at the club, while they got Jordan Lewis, exactly what we need.

Even if we kept pick 7 we would of ended up with Egan, Russell or Monfries.

None of them are of any worth to us not one. This if we did this shit is apinfully stupid for the fact that egan was always our number 1 with two other duds coming up the rear

 

[Brahma Bull]

I agree.

According to my knowledge of some of the young players which I got from the Drafts and Trading board, Rich is one who fits all those categories. There are also Ziebell and Sidebottom who fit skill and toughness but have question marks over their speed. Hartlett is one with class with a skinny body, however does well in a contested situation with many hard ball gets.

If we can get another or upgrade our first round draft pick to lure one of these blokes. My approach to trading is to throw up players (who play in a similar position to other players on the team) that have very good trade value. Players such as Davis and Didak.

Even though I love these players and they are couple of my favourites, we should consider trades which could really benefit us.

Examples:

• Didak + Pick 11 for Pick 4 + Boak (Port Adelaide)
• Davis + Pick 11 + Pick 29 for Pick 4 + Boak + Pick 38 (Port Adelaide)

• 3 way deal

C’Wood Get: Pick 3, Pick 24
C’Wood Lose: Davis, Pick 11, Pick 45

Freo Get: Davis, Pick 6,
Freo Lose: Warnock, Pick 3

Carlton Get: Pick 11, Warnock, Pick 45
Carlton Lose: Pick 6, Pick 24

Resulting in picks:

• # 3 (Rich)
• # 24 (???)
• # 29 (???)
• # 61 (Reed)

 

[BEEG]

I agree.

According to my knowledge of some of the young players which I got from the Drafts and Trading board, Rich is one who fits all those categories. There are also Ziebell and Sidebottom who fit skill and toughness but have question marks over their speed. Hartlett is one with class with a skinny body, however does well in a contested situation with many hard ball gets.

If we can get another or upgrade our first round draft pick to lure one of these blokes. My approach to trading is to throw up players (who play in a similar position to other players on the team) that have very good trade value. Players such as Davis and Didak.

Even though I love these players and they are couple of my favourites, we should consider trades which could really benefit us.

Examples:

• Didak + Pick 11 for Pick 4 + Boak (Port Adelaide)
• Davis + Pick 11 + Pick 29 for Pick 4 + Boak + Pick 38 (Port Adelaide)

• 3 way deal

C’Wood Get: Pick 3, Pick 24
C’Wood Lose: Davis, Pick 11, Pick 45

Freo Get: Davis, Pick 6,
Freo Lose: Warnock, Pick 3

Carlton Get: Pick 11, Warnock, Pick 45
Carlton Lose: Pick 6, Pick 24


Resulting in picks:

• # 3 (Rich)
• # 24 (???)
• # 29 (???)
• # 61 (Reed)

Happy with that

 

[The Norm]

If only we kept our 7th pick in the 2004 draft instead of swapping it along with Bo Nixon to Hawthorn. We ended up getting soft as butter Chris Egan and Chad Morrison. Both no longer at the club, while they got Jordan Lewis, exactly what we need.

Lewis is "tough" in the same way that Cam Mooney is "tough". In other words, he's not.

 

[Quicky]

Didak + Pick 11 for Pick 4 + Boak (Port Adelaide)

This is the only scenario I can see us giving up Didak. I'd be very very happy with this, albeit disappointed in losing Didak. It would be a hard call either way but one you would have to make if the deal was available. That said it'd be an equally hard call for PA. What I like about it is that it would pretty much solve our midfield issues in one trade if we were careful who we recruited with pick 4. I think PA would be more likely to offer us Thomson and pick 4 however.

 

[BEEG]

Just like what Hawthorn had done trade hard look where it got them

Hawthorn have stated that all there Draft picks will be on the table

We should really try hard to grab Pick 16

Hawks - Lockyer
Pies Pick 16

Just a suggestion guys dont go nuts

Lockyer could really add to there Depth and i think is a better player then Guerra,Osbourne and could play be another option in playing the Campbell Brown switch it type

Doubt Hawks would look at it but could catch there eye

 

[Quicky]

Just like what Hawthorn had done trade hard look where it got them

Hawthorn have stated that all there Draft picks will be on the table

We should really try hard to grab Pick 16

Hawks - Lockyer
Pies Pick 16

Just a suggestion guys dont go nuts

Lockyer could really add to there Depth and i think is a better player then Guerra,Osbourne and could play be another option in playing the Campbell Brown switch it type

Doubt Hawks would look at it but could catch there eye

Yep aggressive trading is what got Hawthorn their premiership. They got rid of Hays, Thomson and Everitt for picks. I think Lockyer is definately tradeable and if we got 16 for him i'd be stoked. To have three picks inside the top 25-30 would be a huge coup. This years draft seems to go pretty deep so its worth a go for sure.

 

[BEEG]

Yep aggressive trading is what got Hawthorn their premiership. They got rid of Hays, Thomson and Everitt for picks. I think Lockyer is definately tradeable and if we got 16 for him i'd be stoked. To have three picks inside the top 25-30 would be a huge coup. This years draft seems to go pretty deep so its worth a go for sure.

Collingwood rate there players to High

Lockyer and even 3rd Rounder for there pick 16 i think could and would benefit both teams but Hawthorn might look at something else with the Pick 16

 

[PieLebo87]

No we shouldn't. We should recruit soft, weak players.

 

[dodgeball]

i think at this time of year you look at the premier team and everyone wants to try and emulate them, the truth is hawthorn has taken years to build this team, they have huge upside too, they have the 3rd youngest list in the afl, and if dew and crawf hang up the boots that will drop further. every team has plans over long term in place. i read in the paper that hawthorn have 15 player types they want to recruit over the next few years, and that won't gaurantee them success but it is there plan they have. the draft can be hit and miss. genetically some guys will bulk up where as others just won't be able to put on size. hawthorn lucked it with good recruiting but also having a crack and taking punts on certain guys. they had a strict plan in place which has been well documented. what i am rambling about is the pies will have a plan in place, and they won't just change that plan becuase hawls did this or the cats did that. to say we need to recruit hard tough skilled players is a bit funny becuase i think teams will look for that, the way it goes though is there are players that are tough, not skilled and vice versa. i look forward to this trade period as i think the GC17 movement/concessions has made alot of teams really try to nut out where they are at and what they need. there could be some interesting trades ahead..

 

[Visions]

Its the old catch 22 scenario, you will need to give up a good (if not great) player to receive a high draft pick.

Then you have the issue of is it worth risking a proven player to pick up a draftee that at this stage only has potential and might not make it (numerous examples around).

Hawthorn have built up a great team, a few of them from draft picks down the list, but most of the good ones have been high choices, Hodge at 1, Roughhead at 2, Franklin at 5. The only way Collingwood can guarantee themselves getting high picks is to finish near the bottom, but none of us want that.

 

[Keele]

You can only do what you can in the draft.

Another reason why I am against the ND and salary cap.

Bring on and pay well for players who want to bleed black and white blood

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Lockyer is in the twilight of his career, and is worth nowhere near pick #16.

 

[kevind]

Yep aggressive trading is what got Hawthorn their premiership. They got rid of Hays, Thomson and Everitt for picks. I think Lockyer is definately tradeable and if we got 16 for him i'd be stoked. To have three picks inside the top 25-30 would be a huge coup. This years draft seems to go pretty deep so its worth a go for sure.

What was the real difference in the GF? Toughness? Not really. It was Hawthorn's superb kicking skills. The win was testament to Chris Pelcham's determination not to recruit players with kicking problems. I only wish we would copy this philosophy.

 

[jimmy35]

Just like what Hawthorn had done trade hard look where it got them

Hawthorn have stated that all there Draft picks will be on the table

We should really try hard to grab Pick 16

Hawks - Lockyer
Pies Pick 16

Just a suggestion guys dont go nuts

Lockyer could really add to there Depth and i think is a better player then Guerra,Osbourne and could play be another option in playing the Campbell Brown switch it type

Doubt Hawks would look at it but could catch there eye

I think you're right there .

 

[Pie eyed]

i think at this time of year you look at the premier team and everyone wants to try and emulate them, the truth is hawthorn has taken years to build this team, they have huge upside too, they have the 3rd youngest list in the afl, and if dew and crawf hang up the boots that will drop further. every team has plans over long term in place. i read in the paper that hawthorn have 15 player types they want to recruit over the next few years, and that won't gaurantee them success but it is there plan they have. the draft can be hit and miss. genetically some guys will bulk up where as others just won't be able to put on size. hawthorn lucked it with good recruiting but also having a crack and taking punts on certain guys. they had a strict plan in place which has been well documented. what i am rambling about is the pies will have a plan in place, and they won't just change that plan becuase hawls did this or the cats did that. to say we need to recruit hard tough skilled players is a bit funny becuase i think teams will look for that, the way it goes though is there are players that are tough, not skilled and vice versa. i look forward to this trade period as i think the GC17 movement/concessions has made alot of teams really try to nut out where they are at and what they need. there could be some interesting trades ahead..

I agree totally, had Geelong won this thread and many others would all be sprouting the theory that all you need to win a flag is a power midfield.
There is no "silver bullet".
It is all just hard work, patience and lots of luck.

 

[Bonuspoints]

It wasn't just that they traded aggressively for picks. They bottomed out. In 2001 the beginning of their aggressive trading, they traded Croad and McPharlin for the pick they used to take Hodge they finished fourth. 2002 10th, 2003 9th, 2004 15th, 2005 14th and 2006 11th. So it wasn't just the trading for picks, they were also getting picks inside the top 10 for being outside the top 8 and a number of those were top 5 picks for being at the bottom of the later and getting priority picks.

There was also some top recruiting with their second and third round picks. Mitchell at 36 (2001). Mark Williams at 43 (2000). Campbell Brown at 32 (2001). Bateman at 48 (1999). Not all superstars, but some quality team players there. Add to that the guys they got from their rookie list - Osbourne, Campbell, and Young. The Hawks got have become a powerhouse side because they got a lot of first round picks and recruited very well.

I reckon the big question is whether Collingwood fans are willing to take that pain of being at the bottom end for a 2-3 years more than whether we are willing to take the pain of trading a star/favourite.

 

[Teh_Nub]

Weve got a young good team, use the picks we have to get the next few players we need.

Picks are all luck anyway, higher pick higher chance but doesn't mean a certainty. And most of you are willing to trade certain great players for some young unproven players who can easily turn out to be duds.

 

[FlyingDucks]

You can only do what you can in the draft.

Another reason why I am against the ND and salary cap.

Bring on and pay well for players who want to bleed black and white blood

People need to be patient. Hawthorn and Geelong have guys three to four years older than the Pies do. In that time our guys will bulk and form a team much tougher. A lot of games this season we had 12-13 players 21 and under. We have to give them time. We have overachieved last year and this year a little with such a young group.

I see Ryan O'Keefe has sounded out that he may be available. All Australian quality player and could be for nothing as he is uncontracted and must be spoken to. A workhorse who could play half back, middle and up forward.

 

[Quicky]

Lockyer is in the twilight of his career, and is worth nowhere near pick #16.

Yeah but thats what makes the idea so appealing

You're right though. I think he'd be worth a 2nd round pick, somewhere between 20-30 you'd think.

 

[cruising]

Weve got a young good team, use the picks we have to get the next few players we need.

Picks are all luck anyway, higher pick higher chance but doesn't mean a certainty. And most of you are willing to trade certain great players for some young unproven players who can easily turn out to be duds.

isnt that why you pay the big bucks for the recruiting guys. John Turnbull at hawthorn has got it right in a 4 to 5 year span,look at the pies, 18 years and still no closer.

 

[Teh_Nub]

isnt that why you pay the big bucks for the recruiting guys. John Turnbull at hawthorn has got it right in a 4 to 5 year span,look at the pies, 18 years and still no closer.

So recruiting guys don't always get it right either.
No-one has a 100% record and then trading for draft picks doesn't really ensure you get the player you want anyway.

Im sure John Turnbull hasn't made every decision perfect either. I just think Collingwood have a good young list we can work with why comprimise it for a chance that we get a dud or homesick player or a player that we don't need.

Look through some of the top 10 draft picks for last 3 years and see how good they are And look at plenty of great players who've come low in the draft and everyone uses the example James Hird.

I guess its not fair to use past 4 years so 2000-2003
2000, 2001, 2002, 2003
1. Reiwoldt, Hodge, Goddard, Cooney
2. Kosi, Ball, Wells, A. Walker
3. Didak, Judd, J.Brennan, Sylvia
4. Livingston, Polak, Walsh, F. Ray
5. McDougall, X.Clarke, J.McVeigh, McLean
6. D. Smith, Hale, Salopek, Bradley
7. Angwin, Sampi, Mackie, Tenance
8. Motlop, Bartel, L.Brennan, R.Clarke
9. Pettifer, Molan, McIntosh, Trotter
10. McMahon, S.Power, Laycock, Dunn

Good Picks below top 10
2000
56 - Cross
20 - K. Cornes
67 - Johncock

2001
36 - S. Mitchell
58 - D. Swan
32 - Campbell Brown

2002
55 - Crowley
64 - Malceski
53 - A. Selwood

2003
33 - Adcock
55 - S.Fisher
30 - Symes