List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2023

[JLC]

Out of curiosity, what’s this based on? AFL games played? When you’ve only got a handful of games to your name, I’m not sure that the difference of a couple of games is much in the way of credentials. What was Hayes’ SANFL form like? I do remember that Cameron had a very strong year in the twos as a ruck/fwd when we recruited him, if Hayes was just OK at state level it probably says quite a bit about where he’s at vs Cameron when we traded for him.

Afl games and discussions in the media.

I just remember having never really heard of Cameron whereas Hayes I have heard a lot more about.



Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[Fruit]

I remember one recruiter said it’s nearly not worth drafting a young ruckman. Instead you should just wait for another club to develop them and trade for them. How many ruckman around the league are playing regularly for their 2nd and 3rd teams? Our last two flags were won with rucks from other clubs - Darren Jolly

Darren Jolly

Age

43

Ht

200cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

4.2

3star

CL

2.3

4star

HO

21.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

3.2

1star

K

1.6

1star

HB

1.6

2star

HO

3.2

5star

with Leigh Brown and Darcy Cameron

14

Darcy Cameron

Age

29

Ht

204cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.7

2star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

3.5

5star

D

6.0

2star

K

3.3

2star

HB

2.7

3star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

.

 

[Gaspard]

In ruck discussions, nobody seems to be considering that Steene and Begg have now put in a season (or two) in the VFL and should be considered as the back up rucks. If it is not time to give them a game or two when the three ahead of them (I include Frampton) can't get up, then it probably won't ever be. They have been protected as they should be, even during the dire times last year when all three were out, but they ought to be ready for the taste now. 5 ruckmen on the list seems enough to me.

 

[Apex36]

Afl games and discussions in the media.

I just remember having never really heard of Cameron whereas Hayes I have heard a lot more about.



Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Covered the AFL games bit already, so I won’t repeat that, and surely you can’t regard media discussion as a credential…

 

[sr36]

Afl games and discussions in the media.

I just remember having never really heard of Cameron whereas Hayes I have heard a lot more about.



Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

When not injured, Cameron was starring in the NEAFL, which doesn't get discussed as a league. It's a weak comp and Sydney used to win heaps of games by 100+, so hard to rate against state League form

Plus Sydney recruited him in his early 20s. He wasn't in the frame in his draft year, so no draft hype for his name to be known.

 

[RobJD]

In ruck discussions, nobody seems to be considering that Steene and Begg have now put in a season (or two) in the VFL and should be considered as the back up rucks. If it is not time to give them a game or two when the three ahead of them (I include Frampton) can't get up, then it probably won't ever be. They have been protected as they should be, even during the dire times last year when all three were out, but they ought to be ready for the taste now. 5 ruckmen on the list seems enough to me.

The issue is that we don't really have one pure ruckman on the list. Steene is very young and is projecting as a Ruck/Forward, Begg seems too short to be an AFL level ruck (he does have a good spring) - at best he's a Forward/Ruck. Frampton is a spare parts player who I think is under-rated as a ruckman (he tends to play backline and not ruck in the VFL). Cox is shifting more and more towards a first ruck (although he can't sustain first ruck minutes) and Cameron again is more a Forward/Ruck.

I don't mind an experienced tap ruckman to play VFL and shield Begg and Steene from being bashed up each week and to give our mid-field an opportunity to work with a competitive ruckman who can allow them to work offensively.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I remember one recruiter said it’s nearly not worth drafting a young ruckman. Instead you should just wait for another club to develop them and trade for them. How many ruckman around the league are playing regularly for their 2nd and 3rd teams? Our last two flags were won with rucks from other clubs - Darren Jolly

Darren Jolly

Age

43

Ht

200cm

Wt

108kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

4.2

3star

CL

2.3

4star

HO

21.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

3.2

1star

K

1.6

1star

HB

1.6

2star

HO

3.2

5star

with Leigh Brown and Darcy Cameron

14

Darcy Cameron

Age

29

Ht

204cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

2.7

2star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

0.5

3star

HO

3.5

5star

D

6.0

2star

K

3.3

2star

HB

2.7

3star

CL

0.3

2star

HO

5.3

5star

.

This recruiter is correct. Possible caveat being if they are very cheap, and/or if they can genuinely play forward for reasonable minutes.

I think spending high draft capital on a young tap ruckman is inefficient.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

In ruck discussions, nobody seems to be considering that Steene and Begg have now put in a season (or two) in the VFL and should be considered as the back up rucks. If it is not time to give them a game or two when the three ahead of them (I include Frampton) can't get up, then it probably won't ever be. They have been protected as they should be, even during the dire times last year when all three were out, but they ought to be ready for the taste now. 5 ruckmen on the list seems enough to me.

Steene has only had one season, and Begg isn’t a ruckman… as of now he isn’t an anything.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

We don’t need another project ruck unless Begg converts to a full time key position player.

I can't see Begg not converting to a full time KPF. He is too short for a ruckman.

 

[KinderSmock]

This recruiter is correct. Possible caveat being if they are very cheap, and/or if they can genuinely play forward for reasonable minutes.

I think spending high draft capital on a young tap ruckman is inefficient.

I think spending high capital on a ruck full stop is inefficient. We don’t need expensive rucks to cover a job. At the end of the day, it’s not winning the hitout that matters but what you do with it.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I think spending high capital on a ruck full stop is inefficient. We don’t need expensive rucks to cover a job. At the end of the day, it’s not winning the hitout that matters but what you do with it.

We have had our fingers burned once already reaching too high for a ruck. Plus we won a premiership without a top pick ruckman.

 

[Apex36]

I can't see Begg not converting to a full time KPF. He is too short for a ruckman.

I can. His aerial game is nowhere near what’s required for a key forward. Maybe as a stopper type key defender, but once again, we seem to prefer intercept marking types.
Begg showed a couple of promising signs late in the year but he still has a long way to go, and his best position is still unclear which doesn’t give a whole lot of confidence.

 

[Apex36]

We have had our fingers burned once already reaching too high for a ruck. Plus we won a premiership without a top pick ruckman.

Assuming you’re talking about Grundy:

1. He was pick 18 and became our number 1 ruck within 2 years. How is that reaching too high?

2. We got our fingers burned because we caved in to stupid contract demands to a ruckman in his prime. I’m not sure what that has to do with drafting?

Grundy was one of the very few cases where selecting a ruckman relatively early was actually a good strategy, so I’m not sure your point is well proven by using him as a reference.

 

[KinderSmock]

We have had our fingers burned once already reaching to high for a ruck. Plus we won a premiership without a top pick ruckman.

I’d go to America again for sure. Just invite a bunch of 200cm basketballers to a field, put them through their paces and figure out who we want as a test ruck.

Personally think we could look at American football sorts to come over. Punters who already have uno numero skill down, running backs and receivers could all be considered. Most of them are fit, too.

 

[KinderSmock]

Assuming you’re talking about Grundy:

1. He was pick 18 and became our number 1 ruck within 2 years. How is that reaching too high?

2. We got our fingers burned because we caved in to stupid contract demands to a ruckman in his prime. I’m not sure what that has to do with drafting?

Grundy was one of the very few cases where selecting a ruckman relatively early was actually a good strategy, so I’m not sure your point is well proven by using him as a reference.

He rose to the top level quickly but I think it’s best to choose forward-rucks at higher selections rather than just pure rucks who are becoming a dying breed. Ruck/forwards have more strings to their bow so better value.

I suppose our strategy with Grundy should have been to develop him to a point where we could have sold him off for a significant reward.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

We have had our fingers burned once already reaching to high for a ruck. Plus we won a premiership without a top pick ruckman.

Not sure h ow many times I've had to say this over the last 3 years, but most teams that win flags, win them without a "top line" ruckman

Melbourne were the only exception in the last 10 years or so

Bulldogs won it with Roughie as their ruckman lol. Boyd was pinch hitting

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

In ruck discussions, nobody seems to be considering that Steene and Begg have now put in a season (or two) in the VFL and should be considered as the back up rucks. If it is not time to give them a game or two when the three ahead of them (I include Frampton) can't get up, then it probably won't ever be. They have been protected as they should be, even during the dire times last year when all three were out, but they ought to be ready for the taste now. 5 ruckmen on the list seems enough to me.

You're conflating two different situations.

Begg was injured at the same time that Cox/Cameron/McStay were and would absolutely have been played if he was available. He had AFL experience already, and would have been brought into the side had his injury not coincided with the others.

Steene had been brought onto the list late in the preseason and was still a very raw teenager, and McRae made it clear that they wouldn't throw him to the wolves by playing him before he was ready, because those injuries were so early in the season.

Maybe even later in the year they may have been willing to try Steene, but it was too close to his initial recruitment to consider playing him.

 

[Harry O]

We should find out officially today which of our rookies have been promoted to senior list

AJ?
Oleg?

 

[Bramax]

We have had our fingers burned once already reaching too high for a ruck. Plus we won a premiership without a top pick ruckman.

I agree. Tigers also did the same three times in 4 years.

 

[Jen2310]

We should find out officially today which of our rookies have been promoted to senior list

AJ?
Oleg?

doesn't that happen after the draft?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I think spending high capital on a ruck full stop is inefficient. We don’t need expensive rucks to cover a job. At the end of the day, it’s not winning the hitout that matters but what you do with it.

Maybe. Luke Jackson panned out ok for the Dees, a flag and a healthy return when traded.

I think if we could’ve gotten Tim English a year earlier and paid a modest price we would have been happy with that outcome too. Not to be because of paperwork deadlines etc.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Bulldogs list cull continues with two decades of experience departing, Saints farewell defender

More list changes at the Western Bulldogs.

www.sen.com.au

Tom Highmore is free.

 

[KinderSmock]

Bulldogs list cull continues with two decades of experience departing, Saints farewell defender

More list changes at the Western Bulldogs.

www.sen.com.au

Tom Highmore is free.

I'd consider him.

 

[Harry O]

doesn't that happen after the draft?

No usually at this list lodgement

 

[cfc19902010]

We had no tall defenders let alone 3 to cover Darling, Kennedy along with the resting ruck.

Cox and Grundy played 90% game time, Lycett and Vardy both 60%. Easy when you are the freshest guy on the ground against an exhausted opponent.

We had Darcy Moore available who trained the house down on Thursday training but Bucks wouldn’t roll the dice
So Goldsack and Langton had to do the job
Conservative approach probably cost us the game