Opinion Commentary & Media VIII

[Ligma]

It’s always the females fault

 

[Gasometer]

You're right, the problems popped up overnight and were in no way a manifestation of historical underinvestment in football ops from low revenue/managing debt load meeting a black swan event. Between this, your rubbish/unhinged/factually incorrect AFLW posting and defense of Tarryn you are clearly just a pig of a thing.

You can claim left/progressive all you like but I just think you're too stupid to be able to actually self-reflect. It is abundantly clear to anyone who has a familiarity with internal workings at the club that you have no idea what you're talking about, which is both ironic and enjoyable considering you have made it clear you wished club personnel took notice of your posting

Huh? Your talking about Mr Progressive himself? He announced it a few pages back this morning

 

[ferball]

Nope. No one expected last season to turn out like it did. And no one expected the club to get significantly worse after Noble’s first season. The expectations amongst supporters were nothing resembling what was to come over the next 3 years.

Additionally, the club very obviously ****ed up in 2020. The fact we are the worst team in modern history over a four or five year stretch should attest to that for anyone being realistic and not forming their opinions solely to defend Brady Rawlings.

So in other words stop being deceptive and acting like this was expected.

I expected it. And so did a bunch of other posters and we all warned what would happen for years beforehand when Scott was coaching when people said we should bottom out.

But once that decision was made then it can't be unmade.

And frankly none of those players were worth keeping anyway. So when push came to shove it was the right decision. It should never have got to that point but once it did then those decisions had to made. Even before we sacked all those players it was obvious the Hub was our equivalent of Adelaide's infamous camp, something had broken in the group and that we were in for years of pain.

Multiple posters said all the way thru 2021 and 2022 that the rebuild would have to be perfect for us to be competing before this year. Then we had Noble's second year of coaching, lost JHF, got Clarko and the racism scandal then lost TT (effectively since 2022 as well.) Multiple set backs, most of them beyond the club's control.

Frankly if you think the first half of this season will be much different you're in for a shock too.

We should be more competitive in games and might even win a few. If we're lucky.

But it will take at least till the bye for the side to gel. Most of the players we are relying on have still played less than 30 games. We have a smattering of good middle aged players who have played more than 30 games together and then a whole bunch more who haven't. Many of those players are new and played less than 20 games at the club.

We might get a bit of a bounce from this being the first season since before we signed Clarko where off field bullshit hasn't been an overwhelming issue but we might not either.

 

[hilly]

I expected it. And so did a bunch of other posters and we all warned what would happen for years beforehand when Scott was coaching when people who said we should bottom out.

But once that decision was made then it can't be unmade.

And frankly none of those players were worth keeping anyway. So when push came to shove it was the right decision. It should never have got to that point but once it did then those decisions had to made. Even before we sacked all those players it was obvious the Hub was our equivalent of Adelaide's infamous camp, something had broken in the group and that we were in for years of pain.

Multiple posters said all the way thru 2021 and 2022 that the rebuild would have to be perfect for us to be competing before this year. Then we had Noble's second year of coaching, lost JHF, got Clarko and the racism scandal then lost TT (effectively since 2022 as well.) Multiple set backs, most of them beyond the club's control.

Frankly if you think the first half of this season will be much different you're in for a shock too.

We should be more competitive in games and might even win a few. If we're lucky.

But it will take at least till the bye for the side to gel. Most of the players we are relying on have still played less than 30 games. We have a smattering of good middle aged players who have played more than 30 games together and then a whole bunch more who haven't. Many of those players are new and played less than 20 games at the club.

We might get a bit of a bounce from this being the first season since before we signed Clarko where off field bullshit hasn't been an overwhelming issue but we might not either.

I won't argue about the truckload of bad luck.

Competing or competitive? The former was never going to happen by now imo.

 

[ferball]

I won't argue about the truckload of bad luck.

Competing or competitive? The former was never going to happen by now imo.

If the racism scandal never happened, if JHF and TT were professional and decent people and still on the list then we would be competitive already and may be into the eight ie competing.

When Clarkson came he stressed the need for everyone at the club to be focused and working toward one goal. Then the racism scandal happened and he was unable to focus or work toward that one goal.

If he had that clear air instead and those two players were at the club (working hard and committed and both in their early 20s,) we'd be a significantly better side, even with the list holes and general lack of experience and aged/hardened bodies. (Also ... I think Wardlaw will end up in the as good or nearly as good as JHF category myself, if he doesn't become injury prone. JHF has some advantages George lacks but George has some JHF lacks too. In the long run George's intensity might be the more important trait too.)

JHF was a one year set back (if Wardlaw makes it). TT, well we got lucky with Harry (and maybe BGZ) so maybe a two year setback and a loss of talent we can hopefully cover. But if those players develop to their potential we'll get those years back at the end of their careers.

2022 set us back but we got Clarkson as a result. Then another two years of nowhere cos of Hawthorn's shit.

That last one is what has really cost us.

 

[amaz199]

To be honest, I'm exhausted.

I've been there when we were finished by quarter time, been there when we're expected to get pummelled and accept the inevitable. Been there so many times it becomes a numb feeling. All you can do is laugh but even that doesn't happen. What is unforgivable is this club forced me to lower my expectations so low that I don't have any expectations. I don't back in the boys anymore. That's criminal.

If we go through another less than 6 win season, we're not gonna get anywhere. Period.

It starts with those Dogs of which we haven't beaten since Brad's last game as coach for North. Prove all the doubters wrong and actually, for once, play decent football even when opposition challenge.

Hit some targets and kick some goals. It's not freaking rocket science.

 

[zoomba23]

I expected it. And so did a bunch of other posters and we all warned what would happen for years beforehand when Scott was coaching when people who said we should bottom out.

But once that decision was made then it can't be unmade.

And frankly none of those players were worth keeping anyway. So when push came to shove it was the right decision. It should never have got to that point but once it did then those decisions had to made. Even before we sacked all those players it was obvious the Hub was our equivalent of Adelaide's infamous camp, something had broken in the group and that we were in for years of pain.

Multiple posters said all the way thru 2021 and 2022 that the rebuild would have to be perfect for us to be competing before this year. Then we had Noble's second year of coaching, lost JHF, got Clarko and the racism scandal then lost TT (effectively since 2022 as well.) Multiple set backs, most of them beyond the club's control.

Frankly if you think the first half of this season will be much different you're in for a shock too.

We should be more competitive in games and might even win a few. If we're lucky.

But it will take at least till the bye for the side to gel. Most of the players we are relying on have still played less than 30 games. We have a smattering of good middle aged players who have played more than 30 games together and then a whole bunch more who haven't. Many of those players are new and played less than 20 games at the club.

We might get a bit of a bounce from this being the first season since before we signed Clarko where off field bullshit hasn't been an overwhelming issue but we might not either.

Gotta disagree with a bit of this, Ferbs. There was little reason to delist Williams, Macmillan, Wood. Ahern and Pittard were line-ball calls. Daw was unfortunate, but the right call. At minimum, several of those lads would've helped ease pressures on the new group as we transitioned. The reason most clubs don't delist eleven blokes in one go is because it doesn't work. You need some cohesion as leadership is handed down and experience taught. Even if the players involved are vanilla.

Late 2021, things were looking up, and it looked like we weren't fundamentally broken after all. But something gave, whether it was the hierarchy at the club not pulling its weight and making Noble think he needed to do everything, whether it was Noble receiving a personality transplant from Beezlebub. At that point, it also would've been nice to have had some more senior heads at the club to shelter some of the young blokes from his wrath. Which ties back in with the list cull at the end of 2020.

2022, as you say, was evidently hopeless from very early on, but hopes were bolstered when we got Clarko in. This, aside from the hub, is where circumstances outside our control really seemed to hurt us, with our new coach becoming damaged goods within a matter of weeks. JHF's departure probably hurt our image but I doubt anyone at the club was devastated to see him go.

2023, we thought the worst was behind us, but it was probably always going to tell, and Clarko being Clarko was probably a bit proud to admit that something was amiss until it became too much. 2024 was really just a soft continuation of 2023, the allegations still hanging around and still (likely) hampering his every coaching faculty. TT hurt us, for sure. Would've been our best player if he'd been able to rein himself in. Yes, better than Sheezel and LDU and all the rest of them.

I think expecting the first half of 2025 to be as abjectly shit as the first half of the previous two is misguided and overly generous towards the club. The allegations have been resolved. Clarko seems more like the Clarko of early 2023. We've brought in a senior premiership player to play in each third of the ground. At least one of those is still at his peak. We have a treasure trove of young talent. We have a premier ruckman, two premier midfielders and a premier key forward. We now have three players who can provide something on the outside (McKercher, FOS, Fisher (you may laugh, but he's definitely serviceable in the right circumstances)), which is probably more than we've had since circa 2015.

We'll have our down moments and probably the periods where opponents find it easy to score, but we're kidding ourselves if we start on with another streak of seven+ 40+ point losses. The last couple of years, that was borderline acceptable. It won't be this time round

 

[amaz199]

We'll have our down moments and probably the periods where opponents find it easy to score, but we're kidding ourselves if we start on with another streak of seven+ 40 point losses. The last couple of years, that was borderline acceptable. It won't be this time round

To be honest zoomba 40 point losses should never be acceptable. If we go on a get pumped every week run again, that will only cause more damage.

 

[zoomba23]

To be honest zoomba 40 point losses should never be acceptable. If we go on a get pumped every week run again, that will only cause more damage.

Look, I reckon they're acceptable with a group like this, given it's totally without belief in its ability to win, and is comprised of player types that seem out of an era from 20 years ago. BUT there's no reason why a group this talented should be losing in that fashion over and over and over again.

It's remarkable that we didn't snag a win last year against a half-decent opponent by pure weight of talent. Truly remarkable

 

[marklovesbeer]

You and I mr ferbs could sit down and have a beer any ****in day

 

[DuckYeah]

manifestation of historical underinvestment in football ops from low revenue/managing debt load meeting a black swan event

Spin.

 

[Caracas]

Just picked up on it. Labor, we aren’t English

Being an Irishman, I have mixed feelings on how to respond to that…

P.S. I just had a seance meeting with James Connolly. He’s not very happy with you.

 

[Caracas]

Nope, political compass is greens. But im not a pussy and think there are better ways to show acceptance and build better ways than what they have to offer. You campaigners have labelled me with all sorts of shit without knowing who I am. I am a hardened progressive individual.

And yes I am a staunch union antifa socialist.

That’s why I said “traditional”…

 

[Caracas]

Nope, political compass is greens. But im not a pussy and think there are better ways to show acceptance and build better ways than what they have to offer. You campaigners have labelled me with all sorts of shit without knowing who I am. I am a hardened progressive individual.

And yes I am a staunch union antifa socialist.

To be honest, I’m fairly well aligned with you. Although, I’m more a labrador, whereas you’re more of a pitbull.

 

[lockheed]

Unlike others I want to see us win more than three games a year.

I want to see us win more games than we lose

 

[Shermanator]

I think the point is supporters who desperately sing positives when we lose by 80 points or lose our 10th game in a row.

In the context of tomorrow their midfield is significantly weakened as is their attack. A poor performance and result (if it happens) should be met with no positivity. The time for that is over. We have been terrible for a long time and last year when there should’ve been obvious improvement was a massive disappointment.

The supporters of the club deserve more than the shit they’ve been served up for years.

I’ve been on here for 24 years and literally never seen that happen AC..

 

[apollo_creed]

There’s literally a fan in here who is arguing that our 3 win effort last season was expected.

He’s also arguing that everyone expected what was to come after Noble’s first season.

When every immense failure is painted by some apologists as inevitable and essentially part of the planned process, it absolutely is evidence of fans excusing unacceptable and unprecedented failure.

No more excuses from the club this season. 6 wins is the absolute minimum.

People like Ferball never put metrics out there so the bar can be as low as possible so they can excuse the club and people associated with it no matter what.

Like everyone here I want the club to succeed but I’m not going to paint the picture that what has transpired recently is an acceptable consequence of some delistings in 2020. Now is the time to start delivering, no more stagnancy, obvious and measurable improvement.

 

[ferball]

Gotta disagree with a bit of this, Ferbs. There was little reason to delist Williams, Macmillan, Wood. Ahern and Pittard were line-ball calls. Daw was unfortunate, but the right call. At minimum, several of those lads would've helped ease pressures on the new group as we transitioned. The reason most clubs don't delist eleven blokes in one go is because it doesn't work. You need some cohesion as leadership is handed down and experience taught. Even if the players involved are vanilla.

That's cool. I'll just remind you that Mason played 65 of the 155 games he was available for during his time with us and only 9 in his first season at St Kilda. I liked the guy but that's the definition of a list clogger. Williams repeatedly short stepped so I'm not surprised he was given the arse (and maybe had some bad habits that were exposed during the hub.)

MacMillan left the hub after round 11 and never went back. Maybe it would have been worth keeping him if only for the laughs when Nostra lost it.

Pittard cost us the Carlton game (reversed a free kick in front of goal at 3/4 time iirc). He shouldn't have been in the leadership group at that point and perhaps that's an indication of where we were at even before the cull. If he hadn't cost us that game, or had done that but not been a leader he might have kept his job. He had a stupid brain fade and we lost the opportunity to go into 3/4 time in front.

We won the next game against Adelaide but imo that Carlton game was where it all went to shit and Pittard was directly responsible for the loss. If he hadn't done that everything that followed might have been less shit.

Late 2021, things were looking up, and it looked like we weren't fundamentally broken after all. But something gave, whether it was the hierarchy at the club not pulling its weight and making Noble think he needed to do everything, whether it was Noble receiving a personality transplant from Beezlebub. At that point, it also would've been nice to have had some more senior heads at the club to shelter some of the young blokes from his wrath. Which ties back in with the list cull at the end of 2020.

2022, as you say, was evidently hopeless from very early on, but hopes were bolstered when we got Clarko in. This, aside from the hub, is where circumstances outside our control really seemed to hurt us, with our new coach becoming damaged goods within a matter of weeks. JHF's departure probably hurt our image but I doubt anyone at the club was devastated to see him go.

2023, we thought the worst was behind us, but it was probably always going to tell, and Clarko being Clarko was probably a bit proud to admit that something was amiss until it became too much. 2024 was really just a soft continuation of 2023, the allegations still hanging around and still (likely) hampering his every coaching faculty. TT hurt us, for sure. Would've been our best player if he'd been able to rein himself in. Yes, better than Sheezel and LDU and all the rest of them.

I think expecting the first half of 2025 to be as abjectly shit as the first half of the previous two is misguided and overly generous towards the club. The allegations have been resolved. Clarko seems more like the Clarko of early 2023. We've brought in a senior premiership player to play in each third of the ground. At least one of those is still at his peak. We have a treasure trove of young talent. We have a premier ruckman, two premier midfielders and a premier key forward. We now have three players who can provide something on the outside (McKercher, FOS, Fisher (you may laugh, but he's definitely serviceable in the right circumstances)), which is probably more than we've had since circa 2015.

We'll have our down moments and probably the periods where opponents find it easy to score, but we're kidding ourselves if we start on with another streak of seven+ 40+ point losses. The last couple of years, that was borderline acceptable. It won't be this time round

I don't think we'll be as bad as we were before the bye last season. If we are something is still rotten.

But you can really see the difference Darling and Daniel make to the side. I think it will take time for that to settle in, we might beat the Dogs tonight, melbourne next week and we may even win three or four games before the bye but we won't look like a competitive side against everyone until they play at least ten games together imo.

 

[shintemaster]

I think expecting the first half of 2025 to be as abjectly shit as the first half of the previous two is misguided and overly generous towards the club. The allegations have been resolved. Clarko seems more like the Clarko of early 2023. We've brought in a senior premiership player to play in each third of the ground. At least one of those is still at his peak. We have a treasure trove of young talent. We have a premier ruckman, two premier midfielders and a premier key forward. We now have three players who can provide something on the outside (McKercher, FOS, Fisher (you may laugh, but he's definitely serviceable in the right circumstances)), which is probably more than we've had since circa 2015.

We'll have our down moments and probably the periods where opponents find it easy to score, but we're kidding ourselves if we start on with another streak of seven+ 40+ point losses. The last couple of years, that was borderline acceptable. It won't be this time round

This is where I sit as well Zoomba.

• We are still very young, that's good because some of our best players are our youngest but it also means we are vulnerable because the depth are younger players again that aren't our best. Injuries to the wrong types will hurt us a lot.
• We have (IMO) a less punishing start to the year
• We have a relatively healthy list
• We have brought in some senior depth in positions of need (Daniel in a dead zone, Darling - past his prime - but in an area we don't run very well and Parker proved last year that he might be past his prime, but still has A grade football in him)

Agree with you, we should be expecting a better start to the year in general. How sustainable is anyone's guess at this point.

 

[scottywiper]

But it will take at least till the bye for the side to gel. Most of the players we are relying on have still played less than 30 games. We have a smattering of good middle aged players who have played more than 30 games together and then a whole bunch more who haven't. Many of those players are new and played less than 20 games at the club.

We might get a bit of a bounce from this being the first season since before we signed Clarko where off field bullshit hasn't been an overwhelming issue but we might not either.

Good to see we're getting in early with the pre-excuses!
The acceptance, and even justification, of what we have served up for five years is quite breathtaking.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Good to see we're getting in early with the pre-excuses!
The acceptance, and even justification, of what we have served up for five years is quite breathtaking.

Flabbergasting.

 

[ferball]

Clearly you two have no idea about actual football.

 

[shintemaster]

But you can really see the difference Darling and Daniel make to the side. I think it will take time for that to settle in, we might beat the Dogs tonight, melbourne next week and we may even win three or four games before the bye but we won't look like a competitive side against everyone until they play at least ten games together imo.

If I was to describe it we looked much less brittle. Still leaked goals a bit too easy - albeit that isn't unusual in pre season games - but looked like one bad handball or kick was more recoverable. Not without brittleness obviously, just felt like we weren't going to go from in a game to completely out in 1 min.

 

[scottywiper]

Clearly you two have no idea about actual football.

Is that a pot I hear calling? Run Forrest run!

 

[DocSholl]

It wasn't just delisting 11 players. It was delisting 11 players with 30 second exit interviews, five minutes after the season ended, then trading Brown and Higgins, and then royally screwing up the draft and trade period. The club hasn't fully recovered from that clusterfk.