Coronavirus 2020 / Worldwide (Stats live update in OP) Part 7: This Thread is for Reasonable ON TOPIC Discussion

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In the peak fortnight of the outbreak to date (25 August to 7 September), the COVID-19 case rate among 2-dose vaccinated people was 49.5 per 100,000 while in unvaccinated people it was 561 per 100,000, a more than 10-fold difference. The rates of COVID-19 ICU admissions or deaths peaked in the fortnight 8 September to 21 September at 0.9 per 100,000 in 2-dose vaccinated people compared to 15.6 per 100,000 in unvaccinated people, a greater than 16-fold difference.
 
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On Wednesday, CFMEU secretary John Setka said anyone involved in the protest “may as well go pick fruit in Mildura somewhere because they will not be working in our industry”.
 
volcboy said:
Was there brutality? Police spent an hour telling the rioters to leave. They refused. Police then moved up the hill and forced the crowd to disperse. At this stage they used non-lethal weapons to assist.

What else were they meant to do?
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See this is what I mean, non lethal means theoretically non lethal
It means they fired on the crowd and inflicted physical pain on them to force them to move
This isn't against people looting or brandishing weapons or attacking the cops.
It's against people that refused to move on
They said they'd leave if the cops let them go the way they wanted, neither side wanted to back down so the cops shot at them to get their way, yeah it's non lethal in theory but it's still brutality

volcboy said:
Gee, I wonder where these 'protesters' get their ideas from? :think:

View attachment 1243444View attachment 1243446
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Matt Canavan mid 2020 as promoted by Sky News

volcboy said:
The RSL specifically pointed out that the Shrine is not appropriate for protests of any sort.

'Rioters' because what were they actually protesting against? What was their coherent message? Did they actually have one?

You seem unnecessarily aggressive. You weren't at the Shrine today by any chance?
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Sorry do the RSL get to decide what is appropriate and what isn't?
Like yeah they can take offence but thats about it
They were a disorganised protest being dumb doesn't make you a rioter Automatically
 
New Zealand Breakers opted to mutually part ways with unvaccinated player Tai Webster.

Breakers owner Matt Walsh cited Webster’s inability to travel internationally due to being unvaccinated as a reason for the decision.

The Illawarra Hawks also parted ways with American import Travis Trice due to his unvaccinated status preventing him from entering Australia.
 

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The Dice Man said:
Wonder how good he is at digging holes.
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dig-up.gif


:think:
 
Gralin said:
See this is what I mean, non lethal means theoretically non lethal
It means they fired on the crowd and inflicted physical pain on them to force them to move
This isn't against people looting or brandishing weapons or attacking the cops.
It's against people that refused to move on
They said they'd leave if the cops let them go the way they wanted, neither side wanted to back down so the cops shot at them to get their way, yeah it's non lethal in theory but it's still brutality
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This is a key statement. Why do a group of people who are illegally protesting (under current health orders, what they were doing is illegal) for the third day running get to tell the Police which way they want to go? Let's be honest; they wanted to strut past the Police as if they'd got one over them.

I'll ask you again: what could the Police have done differently to what they did?

Gralin said:
Sorry do the RSL get to decide what is appropriate and what isn't?
Like yeah they can take offence but thats about it
They were a disorganised protest being dumb doesn't make you a rioter Automatically
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Do you know any returned service men or women from Afghanistan or Vietnam? How about you go and ask them and see what they think about it. I know a few, and I know what they think. I used the RSL post as an example as they are representatives of the group of individuals the Shrine is in rememberance of.

Your last couple of lines suggests you have a bit of sympathy for those 'protesters' as well. Each to their own, I guess.
 

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PonsfordMagpie said:
Tomorrow we break the record for the longest cumulative days in lockdown since the pandemic started.

Congrats to Andrews and Sutton.
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Yet some here peddle but Gladys is no different line.

Theyve ended up in the same place as us but with 112 days less lockdown. Like **** its the same.
 
Zidane98 said:
Yet some here peddle but Gladys is no different line.

Theyve ended up in the same place as us but with 112 days less lockdown. Like fu** its the same.
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It's deflection tactics.

This has been a dark stain in Victoria's history. One that won't be forgotten long after Andrews is out of power.
 
volcboy said:
This is a key statement. Why do a group of people who are illegally protesting (under current health orders, what they were doing is illegal) for the third day running get to tell the Police which way they want to go? Let's be honest; they wanted to strut past the Police as if they'd got one over them.

I'll ask you again: what could the Police have done differently to what they did?
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It was a dick measuring contest and the cops pulled out weapons to win the argument which is my entire point about the issue with how the cops are acting and how people are cheering them on



Do you know any returned service men or women from Afghanistan or Vietnam? How about you go and ask them and see what they think about it. I know a few, and I know what they think. I used the RSL post as an example as they are representatives of the group of individuals the Shrine is in rememberance of.

Your last couple of lines suggests you have a bit of sympathy for those 'protesters' as well. Each to their own, I guess.
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So both my grandfather's served, old man was army reserve, got a cousin who is a cop, went to school with a bunch of cops
Which literally has nothing to do with why why should be giving any weight at all to the RSL when it comes to a) the right to protest and b) what's an acceptable location for a protest

Or why that should be a valid reason for cops to fire rubber bullets into a crowd
 
Gralin said:
It was a dick measuring contest and the cops pulled out weapons to win the argument which is my entire point about the issue with how the cops are acting and how people are cheering them on




So both my grandfather's served, old man was army reserve, got a cousin who is a cop, went to school with a bunch of cops
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Two officers suffered head injuries. Batteries, golf balls pelted at police officers. Despite this many attempts made to end the protest peacefully and move on the louts who weren't welcome at the Shrine.

Nobody likes to see cops using rubber bullets but they had tried all other peaceful avenues after being attacked (not that you mentioned it)
 
Zidane98 said:
Two officers suffered head injuries. Batteries, golf balls pelted at police officers. Despite this many attempts made to end the protest peacefully and move on the louts who weren't welcome at the Shrine.

Nobody likes to see cops using rubber bullets but they had tried all other peaceful avenues after being attacked (not that you mentioned it)
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Yeah look I don't want the cops injured. I've tried to make this clear. Just because I disapprove of their methods and think governments would be better served by spending some of the money they put I to policing into other services doesn't mean I want people hurt.
This is a universal thing. I don't believe violence is the answer.
I'll also point out that we have no reporting at all on how many protestors were injured.

Media will report that rubber bullets were fired, that 200 arrests were made, that two cops had to be treated but they don't report on the fall out on the other side

Now I'm not saying this to drum up sympathy for a cause. I don't believe in their cause. I'm just pointing out how it's framed. Cops got hurt doing their job and no mention of how violently they did it or the impact.

I know for a fact that the previous rallies where horse punch guy attended turned into overloaded emergency rooms and off duty paramedics getting asked if they could come in and help.

So yeah everyone is happy to talk about how the dickheads protesting are disrespectful of hospital staff but noone talks about how cops methods also lead to increased workloads for hospitals
 
Gralin said:
I think we've lost sight of the fact that lockdowns don't always mean you get to zero, sh*t have people forgotten how long it took us last winter in VIC under stage 4 with curfews?

Restrictions help slow the spread, there is no way NSW would have peaked at 1600 daily cases without restrictions, it would have definitely been higher, how much and which restrictions were a waste of time are two good questions

Curfew clearly a waste of time, other measures probably not too hard to find that were a waste of time, also plenty they could have done earlier that they refused to do because of ideology
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It’s another example of Covid zero warping people’s views on Covid here. Particularly those living away from NSW and Victoria.

It is not as simple here as locking down and it goes away like in some other states. Other states have quickly eased restrictions and nothing has happened. The same thing happens here and we end up with in another seemingly never ending lockdown. The virus keeps looming as well from quarantine, other states nearby etc.

People seem to have forgotten that lockdowns started last year they were done to slow the spread of Covid. Zero cases ended up being an added bonus, it certainly wasn’t the goal. It took Victoria ages to get there too.

This time we are dealing with a different virus, a very weary population and serious pressure here in particular to keep some things open. The federal support isn’t the same.

Short of going full China here in Victoria there’s not much else that could have been changed. People don’t want to be subjected to even worse rules than last year for months on end so we can get back to this ludicrous temporary zero idea for a virus that isn’t going away. It’s hardly surprising that people stopped following rules unlike last year weeks ago. Lockdowns are extreme measures that can work but also clearly have all sorts of negatives. And when you use them for 200+ days they are not going to work the same as they did on day 1. Especially with Delta.

Sure maybe Gladys handled it terribly in NSW. But the reality is the virus was going to continually pop up on this side of Australia and cause problems. Her locking down doesn’t necessarily mean Victoria doesn’t end up with it.

Zero is a fallacy. We have to live with Covid. And by live I mean actually live freely. It’s why vaccines have always been important and it’s why I’m so bemused at how much all these politicians seem to be downplaying their benefit. Using modelling which completely views deaths amongst a highly vaccinated population completely different to real world examples overseas. We’ve got these institutes making the premiers shit themselves because most of Australia won’t accept Covid deaths.

People are seriously underestimating how differently lockdowns feel and end up working when they are seemingly your states only way of handling the pandemic, leading to 200+ days evaporating. It was comical seeing that rubbish roadmap released with Dan thinking anyone will actually follow half those rules for house visits etc. People have had enough and are rightly questioning what the hell is the point of the vaccine if by Christmas 30 people is all a our house can afford to risk having inside.
 
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volcboy said:
Do you know any returned service men or women from Afghanistan or Vietnam? How about you go and ask them and see what they think about it. I know a few, and I know what they think.
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That's like saying, I'm friends with people of color so I can't be racist.




































Just being facetious, same line was used earlier in this thread when certain posters wanted to dismiss someone mentioning that their partner/family were nurses but information they were relaying means jack because it didn't suit their narrative.
 
Gralin said:
It was a dick measuring contest and the cops pulled out weapons to win the argument which is my entire point about the issue with how the cops are acting and how people are cheering them on
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Despite asking you twice, you haven't answered my question: what should Police have done?

I am also of the view that there were better and less aggressive methods, and am no fan of overly aggressive Police methods, having been on the receiving end of them at peaceful protests when I was younger.

I would have preferred that they stayed and individually arrested every individual in that crowd, fined them for breaking health orders (~$5000), then set a court date with bail conditions including a 5km exclusion zone from the CBD to stop these idiots turning up every day and causing a public nuisance.
 
HirdyLannister said:
That's like saying, I'm friends with people of color so I can't be racist.


Just being facetious, same line was used earlier in this thread when certain posters wanted to dismiss someone mentioning that their partner/family were nurses but information they were relaying means jack because it didn't suit their narrative.
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Fair enough, but I'll leave it for those who know more to speak. Maybe look up the vision of the interview with the manager of the Shrine yesterday evening after the crowd had left and make your own judgement.
 
Dictator Dan has got the people of Victoria right where he wants us we're like puppets and hes controlling the strings. Speak up or have the audacity to protest against his Government he sends in the troops. I never thought i would say this but the people of this once great state of Victoria have become submissive and Andrews is the dominant.
 
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