Coronavirus/COVID-19

[Guido]

Anyone who watched Q&A last night, Gigi Foster, allegedly an academic and economics professor, demonstrating that not all loonies are obviously of the extreme left or right.

I disagree with her outlook strongly, but don't see what she said that should have her categorised as a loony.

Is weighing up tens or hundreds of thousands of lives lost to suicide, domestic violence, poverty, drug and alcohol abuse against the loss of tens or hundreds of thousands of lives lost to Covid-19 a stupid exercise?

I'd prefer the lockdown - happy to lose my business, livelihood and anything else material as long as my friends and family get through this safely. For others, a loss of livelihood may trigger depression, drug dependence, violence or suicide.

 

[Guido]

he has shown himself to be anything but incompetent.

For someone without a single second of political experience behind him to navigate through to the Republic nomination against lifelong policitians and a machine hellbent on ruining him, then to win the presidency, if it's not competence, it shows he has a lot of bloody something.

I personally don't like him, think he makes quite a few mistakes, and says some borderline unforgivable stuff (the tit for tat with the gold star family last campaign springs to mind).

But he is a formidable operator, and from what I see of the democrats and mainstream media, many are going down the "trump supporters are such racist, misogynist, greedy, homophobic idiots!!" path again, and history shows how successful that is.

 

[dogwatch]

I disagree with her outlook strongly, but don't see what she said that should have her categorised as a loony.

Is weighing up tens or hundreds of thousands of lives lost to suicide, domestic violence, poverty, drug and alcohol abuse against the loss of tens or hundreds of thousands of lives lost to Covid-19 a stupid exercise?

I'd prefer the lockdown - happy to lose my business, livelihood and anything else material as long as my friends and family get through this safely. For others, a loss of livelihood may trigger depression, drug dependence, violence or suicide.

I agree.
I thought that her style was very self-conscious. She seemed keen to say something controversial early to make a name for herself. She kept supporting her argument by saying "just look at the facts!" but didn't actually cite much in the way of facts while the others often did.

The other four panellists were calm and reasonable in disagreeing with her ... or just ignoring her. After a while she settled down and even said some reasonable things toward the finish.

I didn't agree with her and found her pretty annoying. But with that performance, shaky though it was at times, she has set herself up as a go-to academic when a current affairs show is looking for someone to stir the pot. Smart career move. I note that some other economists were quick to dissociate themselves from her views.

I thought the philosopher/ethicist Simon Longstaff was pretty impressive. He was very measured, made clear and concise points without resorting to academic jargon and was quickly able to articulate a position on almost every issue that came up.

 

[Arkangel]

Apparently Emirates are now giving passengers rapid COVID tests prior to boarding. Looks like they had the same thought bubble I did... though I guess they didn’t have better-informed Bulldogs BigFooty posters to set them straight! (And also they probably care less about what happens once people get off their aeroplanes, but instead about what happens on them.)

 

[King Harold]

For someone without a single second of political experience behind him to navigate through to the Republic nomination against lifelong policitians and a machine hellbent on ruining him, then to win the presidency, if it's not competence, it shows he has a lot of bloody something.

I personally don't like him, think he makes quite a few mistakes, and says some borderline unforgivable stuff (the tit for tat with the gold star family last campaign springs to mind).

But he is a formidable operator, and from what I see of the democrats and mainstream media, many are going down the "trump supporters are such racist, misogynist, greedy, homophobic idiots!!" path again, and history shows how successful that is.

For all those that want to get a laugh !
Just remember as you are being amused , these people are not only allowed to vote , but I assume to breed as well.
At least none that I seen at this rally were waving guns around.

 

[NBates]

For all those that want to get a laugh !
Just remember as you are being amused , these people are not only allowed to vote , but I assume to breed as well.
At least none that I seen at this rally were waving guns around.

Yep. Scary stuff. Suggest background music for clip:

 

[NBates]

Always wondered what happened to Adam & The Ants too:

Coronavirus US: Anti-lockdown protests gather momentum.

Armed militia group Columbus, Ohio

 

[BrisDog]

Does anyone have any idea if AFL will be played again this year?

I haven’t been following the media and cannot see any indication if/when another game will be played if the last 40 pages of this thread which has now turned into a weirdo, far-right thread in relation to DJ Trump, Federalism, etc.

Cheers

 

[Guido]

For all those that want to get a laugh !
Just remember as you are being amused , these people are not only allowed to vote , but I assume to breed as well.
At least none that I seen at this rally were waving guns around.

Are you advocating for a rule that anyone with a low IQ not be allowed to vote or breed?

The media will really keep winning over hearts and minds belittling people. It'll really help at election time. "How did we lose?!?"

On the flip side, here's the compassionate opposition to Trump, assaulting people because they wear a particular red hat or top, the last couple an attack on a right wing journalist, purely because he's right wing, followed by a group going to his home.















https://youtu.be/5viO3shoJyw

https://youtu.be/71bKr8nM0Qg

https://youtu.be/KKyVe-bgdK8

https://youtu.be/Yz1X4PwWy2g

Conservative writer Andy Ngo roughed up at Portland antifa/right wing protests

Rival demonstrators clashed Saturday afternoon in downtown Portland, resulting in myriad injuries and three arrests.Police said three of the injured people r...

youtu.be

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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Unlike the people interviewed in the video you posted, these are all very high IQ perpetrators that deserve a vote.

 

[dogwatch]

Does anyone have any idea if AFL will be played again this year?

I haven’t been following the media and cannot see any indication if/when another game will be played if the last 40 pages of this thread which has now turned into a weirdo, far-right thread in relation to DJ Trump, Federalism, etc.

Cheers

There's a thread for how footy will look post-Covid19 but it looks like nobody is thinking about it much.

There's definitely a place for news and discussion on the subject. I agree this isn't the thread for it.

 

[King Harold]

Are you advocating for a rule that anyone with a low IQ not be allowed to vote or breed?

The media will really keep winning over hearts and minds belittling people. It'll really help at election time. "How did we lose?!?"

On the flip side, here's the compassionate opposition to Trump, assaulting people because they wear a particular red hat or top, the last couple an attack on a right wing journalist, purely because he's right wing, followed by a group going to his home.

















https://youtu.be/71bKr8nM0Qg

https://youtu.be/KKyVe-bgdK8

https://youtu.be/Yz1X4PwWy2g

Conservative writer Andy Ngo roughed up at Portland antifa/right wing protests

Rival demonstrators clashed Saturday afternoon in downtown Portland, resulting in myriad injuries and three arrests.Police said three of the injured people r...

youtu.be

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Unlike the people interviewed in the video you posted, these are all very high IQ perpetrators that deserve a vote.

You need a Bex and a lay down young fella !
And switch your sarcasm metre back on.
No one can stop nuff nuff s from voting or breeding , even me !

like it or not , this is the base Trump is pandering to , of course it is up to you what to believe .

Regards , KH

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Are you advocating for a rule that anyone with a low IQ not be allowed to vote or breed?

The media will really keep winning over hearts and minds belittling people. It'll really help at election time. "How did we lose?!?"

On the flip side, here's the compassionate opposition to Trump, assaulting people because they wear a particular red hat or top, the last couple an attack on a right wing journalist, purely because he's right wing, followed by a group going to his home.

















https://youtu.be/71bKr8nM0Qg

https://youtu.be/KKyVe-bgdK8

https://youtu.be/Yz1X4PwWy2g

Conservative writer Andy Ngo roughed up at Portland antifa/right wing protests

Rival demonstrators clashed Saturday afternoon in downtown Portland, resulting in myriad injuries and three arrests.Police said three of the injured people r...

youtu.be

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Unlike the people interviewed in the video you posted, these are all very high IQ perpetrators that deserve a vote.

That's a very selective flip side. And yes I know KH was selective in his video, as I have been by some of my posts. But Trump displays almost on a daily basis, his lack of the grasp of politics, and management of an economy. He only appears 'presidential' when reading a script - written by someone else. As soon as he goes off-script, the real Trump shines through. You can come back at me with more examples to suit your narrative, but you lost me when you described him as a 'formidable operator'. He is formidable at leeching other people's ability to enhance himself, but his ability to understand world events and the world around him is shown up time and time again as non-existent. He didn't even author his own books. Just listen to him talk off-the-cuff - he's coherence is similar to the people in the clip KH posted. (And he has also promoted violence against his opponents at his rallies. I don't condone violence - on either side, it achieves nothing. I am all for civilised mature debate. But when someone believes Obama is a Muslim and a terrorist, and refuses to acknowledge a birth certificate and existing evidence, but believes the porky-pies that Trump rolls out, and doesn't even understand the irony of the questioner using their own arguments against them, that is not a mature debate.)

 

[Guido]

That's a very selective flip side. And yes I know KH was selective in his video, as I have been by some of my posts. But Trump displays almost on a daily basis, his lack of the grasp of politics, and management of an economy. He only appears 'presidential' when reading a script - written by someone else. As soon as he goes off-script, the real Trump shines through. You can come back at me with more examples to suit your narrative, but you lost me when you described him as a 'formidable operator'. He is formidable at leeching other people's ability to enhance himself, but his ability to understand world events and the world around him is shown up time and time again as non-existent. He didn't even author his own books. Just listen to him talk off-the-cuff - he's coherence is similar to the people in the clip KH posted. (And he has also promoted violence against his opponents at his rallies. I don't condone violence - on either side, it achieves nothing. I am all for civilised mature debate. But when someone believes Obama is a Muslim and a terrorist, and refuses to acknowledge a birth certificate and existing evidence, but believes the porky-pies that Trump rolls out, and doesn't even understand the irony of the questioner using their own arguments against them, that is not a mature debate.)

Mate, I wouldn't vote for him. I think he has a personality disorder, and like I said, I think a lot of what he has said and continues to say is completely incorrect.

But he's successful at what he does, and the more people underestimate him, the more people belittle his supporters, the more people see people getting king hit, spat on for simply walking down the street in a red hat, the more likely he is to win.

And the two Den nominees who could actually win over many Trump supporters, the two who never belittled them but instead understood the underlying reasons why they voted the way they did, were undermined and locked out by the Democratic machine. Tulsi Gabbard and Andrew Yang.

 

[D Mitchell]

Mate, I wouldn't vote for him. I think he has a personality disorder, and like I said, I think a lot of what he has said and continues to say is completely incorrect.

But he's successful at what he does, and the more people underestimate him, the more people belittle his supporters, the more people see people getting king hit, spat on for simp...

In the Australian context, I'd upbraid you for considering the personality of the candidate more influential than abilities and philosophies. In the US context where the President has his finger on the button, it's reasonable. A stable personality. As for those Trump voters ridiculed above, aren't they Hilary's Deplorables ?

 

[King Harold]

That's a very selective flip side. And yes I know KH was selective in his video, as I have been by some of my posts. But Trump displays almost on a daily basis, his lack of the grasp of politics, and management of an economy. He only appears 'presidential' when reading a script - written by someone else. As soon as he goes off-script, the real Trump shines through. You can come back at me with more examples to suit your narrative, but you lost me when you described him as a 'formidable operator'. He is formidable at leeching other people's ability to enhance himself, but his ability to understand world events and the world around him is shown up time and time again as non-existent. He didn't even author his own books. Just listen to him talk off-the-cuff - he's coherence is similar to the people in the clip KH posted. (And he has also promoted violence against his opponents at his rallies. I don't condone violence - on either side, it achieves nothing. I am all for civilised mature debate. But when someone believes Obama is a Muslim and a terrorist, and refuses to acknowledge a birth certificate and existing evidence, but believes the porky-pies that Trump rolls out, and doesn't even understand the irony of the questioner using their own arguments against them, that is not a mature debate.)

Your the voice of reason Ivan old mate!

i didnt really mean what i posted to end in another s- fight. I just thought it amusing .
The stupidity of some people never cease to amaze me.

We could wheel out all sorts of vision from both sides that is just not acceptable behaviour.
Have to say though , the only ones in KKK gear , or wielding guns were from the Trump camp —- just sayin !

 

[King Harold]

In the Australian context, I'd upbraid you for considering the personality of the candidate more influential than abilities and philosophies. In the US context where the President has his finger on the button, it's reasonable. A stable personality. As for those Trump voters ridiculed above, aren't they Hilary's Deplorables ?

Yep , and for good reason.

 

[ScragCity]

I disagree with her outlook strongly, but don't see what she said that should have her categorised as a loony.

Is weighing up tens or hundreds of thousands of lives lost to suicide, domestic violence, poverty, drug and alcohol abuse against the loss of tens or hundreds of thousands of lives lost to Covid-19 a stupid exercise?

I'd prefer the lockdown - happy to lose my business, livelihood and anything else material as long as my friends and family get through this safely. For others, a loss of livelihood may trigger depression, drug dependence, violence or suicide.

Was she trying to paint it as us having an option of one or the other?

Here's what a lot of people don't understand: the economy was ****ed as soon as Covid left China and maybe before that. Even if we put zero restrictions or lockdown in place, the amount of death and destruction the virus would cause would have crippled the economy. Do you honestly think people would still be going to restaurants at the frequency they were before all of this, when there's a virus going around killing 5% of the population because our healthcare system is overwhelmed? Do you think travel agencies would still be doing fine if the government didn't put restrictions in place? There's no option where we could have avoided a massive economic recession, regardless of whether or not we go into lockdown. It's not as simple as arguing deaths from Covid vs deaths from economic collapse. I don't have access to the modelling but I'd be willing to bet that some level of lockdown will be far better for the economy than none.

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Mate, I wouldn't vote for him. I think he has a personality disorder, and like I said, I think a lot of what he has said and continues to say is completely incorrect.

But he's successful at what he does, and the more people underestimate him, the more people belittle his supporters, the more people see people getting king hit, spat on for simply walking down the street in a red hat, the more likely he is to win.

And the two Den nominees who could actually win over many Trump supporters, the two who never belittled them but instead understood the underlying reasons why they voted the way they did, were undermined and locked out by the Democratic machine. Tulsi Gabbard and Andrew Yang.

Do you think those behaviours will get him over the line though? Last time, he lost the popular vote largely due to where people voted for him, and the lack of turnout from alleged Dem supporters. If the turnout increases for the Dems, and given his approval rating has failed to get above where he won last time (so his base is unlikely to increase), IF the Dems can boost their numbers (even if minimal previous voters change sides), that might be enough to swing the result. I'm not that invested in what happens from a US perspective (sorry Chicago1 and Floridog), but from a global perspective having this loose cannon causing havoc in financial markets, military alliances and the flow-on effects of the humanitarian side across the globe, scares the sh1t out of me, for myself, my family, my friends and humanity as a whole.

 

[Guido]

Your the voice of reason Ivan old mate!

i didnt really mean what i posted to end in another s- fight. I just thought it amusing .
The stupidity of some people never cease to amaze me.

We could wheel out all sorts of vision from both sides that is just not acceptable behaviour.
Have to say though , the only ones in KKK gear , or wielding guns were from the Trump camp —- just sayin !

You posted a video with comments on how stupid you think Trump supporters are, and received a counter showing a dozen examples of stupidity and violence from the opposite side. It's not a sh1t fight, nothing else "happened", someone replied to your post, that's it.

Where is the vision of mobs spitting on, chasing down the street, verbally abusing, coward punching people for wearing a Democrat top, or a Yang, Sanders, Hillary or Biden hat?

Of Trump supporters abusing and standing in front of an elderly couple because they want to go see a lecture?

Of right wingers abusing and throwing water on someone in a wheelchair, purely because they don't like the person's politics?

There's hundreds more of examples of this type of abuse towards Trump supporters, if this kind of behaviour is "even", there should be hundreds of examples out there of the same happening to Democrat supporters.

You're more than welcome to counter with examples, but a heads up that some do end up being fake. There was a supposed white supremacist "you're in MAGA country" attack on an actor - it ended up being a deliberately orchastrated hoax. The stupidity of some people amazes me too.

 

[Guido]

Was she trying to paint it as us having an option of one or the other?

Here's what a lot of people don't understand: the economy was f’ed as soon as Covid left China and maybe before that. Even if we put zero restrictions or lockdown in place, the amount of death and destruction the virus would cause would have crippled the economy. Do you honestly think people would still be going to restaurants at the frequency they were before all of this, when there's a virus going around killing 5% of the population because our healthcare system is overwhelmed? Do you think travel agencies would still be doing fine if the government didn't put restrictions in place? There's no option where we could have avoided a massive economic recession, regardless of whether or not we go into lockdown. It's not as simple as arguing deaths from Covid vs deaths from economic collapse. I don't have access to the modelling but I'd be willing to bet that some level of lockdown will be far better for the economy than none.

You're preaching to the converted with every single point (and I will also add that if we do eliminate it because of the restrictions, our economy will roar back into life head of anywhere else in the world), but I don't think she is a fool for arguing any of the points she argued. And her own modelling and arguments would include a natural downturn in output even if restrictions were eased.

All I will say is that Sweden will be a very interesting case study across the next 6 months, both health wise and economy wise.

 

[ScragCity]

You're preaching to the converted with every single point (and I will also add that if we do eliminate it because of the restrictions, our economy will roar back into life head of anywhere else in the world), but I don't think she is a fool for arguing any of the points she argued. And her own modelling and arguments would include a natural downturn in output even if restrictions were eased.

All I will say is that Sweden will be a very interesting case study across the next 6 months, both health wise and economy wise.

I didn't actually watch it so I can't call her a fool. I've just seen a bit of commentary over the last few days claiming that "the cure is worse than the disease" which is absolute nonsense. It's paradoxical that the more effective the restrictions are, the more fuel it gives to the anti-restrictions crowd as they point to the small number of deaths as evidence that we overreacted to a virus that isn't even that bad.

 

[Guido]

Do you think those behaviours will get him over the line though? Last time, he lost the popular vote largely due to where people voted for him, and the lack of turnout from alleged Dem supporters. If the turnout increases for the Dems, and given his approval rating has failed to get above where he won last time (so his base is unlikely to increase), IF the Dems can boost their numbers (even if minimal previous voters change sides), that might be enough to swing the result. I'm not that invested in what happens from a US perspective (sorry Chicago1 and Floridog), but from a global perspective having this loose cannon causing havoc in financial markets, military alliances and the flow-on effects of the humanitarian side across the globe, scares the sh1t out of me, for myself, my family, my friends and humanity as a whole.

The Dems need to win hearts and minds - they could very well win, but this idea of (again) ridiculing anyone who dares consider voting Trump will not serve them well.

Seriously, all they needed to do was put up an intelligent, stable person with some rational policies, who's not hated and distrusted by their own supporters (like Hillary was), give them one rock solid reason to switch (Medicare for All supported by >60% of all voters regardless of politics), and they would have most likely won.

I don't think they've managed it - Biden is struggling to put a coherent sentence together, and he's likely lost a lot of potential supporters of the left who simply want Medicare for all and a reasonable minimum wage - they feel cheated (again).

 

[NBates]

Hate to be racist, but I think the Deliverance types are on both sides of the fence in the USA.

 

[D Mitchell]

Yep , and for good reason.

For bad reason. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by a politician in insulting voters. If she had her time over again, I'd bet she wouldn't do it, some commentators put the cause of her loss down to that gratuitous insult to voters. Chris Bowen made the same mistake "if you don't like our policies, don't vote for us" They didn't.

 

[Guido]

I didn't actually watch it so I can't call her a fool. I've just seen a bit of commentary over the last few days claiming that "the cure is worse than the disease" which is absolute nonsense. It's paradoxical that the more effective the restrictions are, the more fuel it gives to the anti-restrictions crowd as they point to the small number of deaths as evidence that we overreacted to a virus that isn't even that bad.

I agree with you on that point - "we did this for less than 100 lives?!?" is utterly idiotic and completely disingenuous. But that's not what she was arguing. You should watch it on iview if you get the chance.

Whole panel was excellent, and I think it was important to have someone there as a devil's advocate to bring out the best from the rest of the panel.