Coronavirus/COVID-19

[Pugz89]

Agree, Tulsi all the way. She’s an outstanding politician, but it just goes to show how messed up their system is that she can’t get a run at it.

Their, being the Democrats' system I assume you mean? Dems did not get behind her at all, and I believe changed the criteria to prevent her from doing all the debates. She was second last to suspend her campaign with only Biden and Sanders out lasting her. Her podcast with Joe Rogan was great. He made a great point that she fits the left's identity politics would perfectly. Woman, of colour, veteran etc yet couldn't get a look in. Can't help but think Dems pulled the wrong rein yet again.

 

[ossie_21]

Being this thread is now about politics in another country & hemisphere, hopefully we’ll get to all see each other on the other side of this whenever it may be

 

[Leon]

Why do you care so much mate?

He is the US president leading them down the garden path so who cares?

I do not get the angst some aussies have against him. He is irrelevant in my word of concern.

So much energy spent on someone you don’t like. Just put him on ignore like half the people on here have me

Just because something happens overseas and doesn’t affect me directly doesn’t mean I’m not interested or have a view or opinion on it.

Surely you’ve got interests and opinions on things that happen overseas and/or don’t affect you directly?

I follow Liverpool in the EPL, and dislike Man Utd, Chelsea and Tottenham passionately. Should I not care about these things as Liverpool and their rivals are English football clubs and I don’t get to attend 99.99% of Liverpool’s matches?

 

[philmb]

So...be honest, who amongst you were calling for us to follow the Singapore model early on? While I'm not a Liberal type by any means, I think the Government has handled this crisis pretty well. Its response this time compared to the summer bushfires are a world apart.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

From the ABC website below, but basically arguing that the economy should be prioritsed over the country's health. As some comments on social media have observed, she was almost like an apologist for COVID19. Every domestic and international academic that has passed comment has reacted in much the same way as the two embedded in the screenshots below.

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it’s hard to watch Q&A these days, having so many nutters given mainstream access. Not sure it’s the result of the Government stacked board, or the ABC constantly having to prove unbiased commentating. Seeing Alan Jones on Q&A did it for me.

 

[Mattdougie]

Just because something happens overseas and doesn’t affect me directly doesn’t mean I’m not interested or have a view or opinion on it.

Surely you’ve got interests and opinions on things that happen overseas and/or don’t affect you directly?

I follow Liverpool in the EPL, and dislike Man Utd, Chelsea and Tottenham passionately. Should I not care about these things as Liverpool and their rivals are English football clubs and I don’t get to attend 99.99% of Liverpool’s matches?

I didn’t say an opinion i just asked why you seem SO concerned with Trump(as many do is Oz).

I’m a Liverpool fan also and love watching them but that is an interest not a dislike so I enjoy watching them win(now) and bemoan the past losses.

So many aussies spend so much time hating on Trump it’s ridiculous in my opinion. The people I have a dislike for I spend my time attempting to not listen to them rather than take in their drivel and then whinge about it.

That isn’t a comment directed at you either just a generalisation

 

[Leon]

I didn’t say an opinion i just asked why you seem SO concerned with Trump(as many do is Oz).

I’m a Liverpool fan also and love watching them but that is an interest not a dislike so I enjoy watching them win(now) and bemoan the past losses.

So many aussies spend so much time hating on Trump it’s ridiculous in my opinion.

Not sure what you mean by concerned - I don’t spend a great deal of time discussing Trump online or in real life.

I follow the news and every now and then will express my opinion on him - my opinion being simply that Trump is incompetent and an arseh*le.

I’m glad you’re a Liverpool fan. This season has been excellent!

 

[Mattdougie]

Not sure what you mean by concerned - I don’t spend a great deal of time discussing Trump online or in real life.

I follow the news and every now and then will express my opinion on him - my opinion being simply that Trump is incompetent and an arseh*le.

I’m glad you’re a Liverpool fan. This season has been excellent!

Great season, shame it’s ended like this

 

[The Buck]

I didn’t say an opinion i just asked why you seem SO concerned with Trump(as many do is Oz).

I’m a Liverpool fan also and love watching them but that is an interest not a dislike so I enjoy watching them win(now) and bemoan the past losses.

So many aussies spend so much time hating on Trump it’s ridiculous in my opinion. The people I have a dislike for I spend my time attempting to not listen to them rather than take in their drivel and then whinge about it.

That isn’t a comment directed at you either just a generalisation

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Floridog]

You posted a video with comments on how stupid you think Trump supporters are, and received a counter showing a dozen examples of stupidity and violence from the opposite side. It's not a sh1t fight, nothing else "happened", someone replied to your post, that's it.

Where is the vision of mobs spitting on, chasing down the street, verbally abusing, coward punching people for wearing a Democrat top, or a Yang, Sanders, Hillary or Biden hat?

Of Trump supporters abusing and standing in front of an elderly couple because they want to go see a lecture?

Of right wingers abusing and throwing water on someone in a wheelchair, purely because they don't like the person's politics?

There's hundreds more of examples of this type of abuse towards Trump supporters, if this kind of behaviour is "even", there should be hundreds of examples out there of the same happening to Democrat supporters.

You're more than welcome to counter with examples, but a heads up that some do end up being fake. There was a supposed white supremacist "you're in MAGA country" attack on an actor - it ended up being a deliberately orchastrated hoax. The stupidity of some people amazes me too.

I could show you video of a Trump supporter driving his car at speed into a crowd of non supporters and killing one of them. So don't tell me that the right are all little angels. Yes there are plenty of videos of MAGA mobs behaving badly. And yes we have loonies on the left. They just aren't in charge of policy like on the right. Although the more extreme things go to the right there is a natural tendency for the left to lurch to the other extreme to counter that. That is a big part of the reason my country is so divided right now. And yes, Putin is perfectly happy to and capable of exploiting this rift.

 

[Guido]

I could show you video of a Trump supporter driving his car at speed into a crowd of non supporters and killing one of them. So don't tell me that the right are all little angels. Yes there are plenty of videos of MAGA mobs behaving badly. And yes we have loonies on the left. They just aren't in charge of policy like on the right. Although the more extreme things go to the right there is a natural tendency for the left to lurch to the other extreme to counter that. That is a big part of the reason my country is so divided right now. And yes, Putin is perfectly happy to and capable of exploiting this rift.

I never said the right are angels, some of them have clearly flown off the deep end - but i also don't think what was essentially a white supremacist terrorist attack at Charlottsville is a cultural norm, just like the Antifa dude who tried to blow up the ICE facility isn't indicative of a norm on the left.

However groups of people disparaging/assaulting/belittling someone with a red hat simply for existing/walking down the street seems to have become "normal".

More than happy to be proven wrong, I have searched for MAGA mobs doing similar, but I can't find any similar examples of groups of three/four people choking and coward punching a stranger in the head simply because of the party they support. Whereas the opposite, there's heaps (language warning)



It's not only assaults and abuse, but people being refused service at restaurants or refusing to be spoken to in businesses. If they did that because they were wearing a Kippah, they'd rightly be thrown in jail, but because people are being discriminated against due tp their political beliefs rather than their religious ones, apparently that's all fine. It sets a dangerous precedent, for both sides.

I just don't think this demonising will heal the divide. The only solution is a candidate who will reach out - there were quite a few who polled quite well and had high approval ratings with Republicans, despite their policies on Medicare, Min Wage and Climate Change being on the other side of the aisle. But it's difficult to suceed when someone with the power and influence of Hillary publicly calls a war veteran, someone who put their life on the line for the country, a "Russian asset" before the primaries even began..

I just don't buy the Putin/Russia stuff. The very idea of the conspiracy theory itself gives him more power/influence than any attempt at election rigging ever could. Even the mere media mention of Russian interference essentially derailed Sanders campaign when he was leading early.

 

[King Harold]

I never said the right are angels, some of them have clearly flown off the deep end - but i also don't think what was essentially a white supremacist terrorist attack at Charlottsville is a cultural norm, just like the Antifa dude who tried to blow up the ICE facility isn't indicative of a norm on the left.

However groups of people disparaging/assaulting/belittling someone with a red hat simply for existing/walking down the street seems to have become "normal".

More than happy to be proven wrong, I have searched for MAGA mobs doing similar, but I can't find any similar examples of groups of three/four people choking and coward punching a stranger in the head simply because of the party they support. Whereas the opposite, there's heaps (language warning)



It's not only assaults and abuse, but people being refused service at restaurants or refusing to be spoken to in businesses. If they did that because they were wearing a Kippah, they'd rightly be thrown in jail, but because people are being discriminated against due tp their political beliefs rather than their religious ones, apparently that's all fine. It sets a dangerous precedent, for both sides.

I just don't think this demonising will heal the divide. The only solution is a candidate who will reach out - there were quite a few who polled quite well and had high approval ratings with Republicans, despite their policies on Medicare, Min Wage and Climate Change being on the other side of the aisle. But it's difficult to suceed when someone with the power and influence of Hillary publicly calls a war veteran, someone who put their life on the line for the country, a "Russian asset" before the primaries even began..

I just don't buy the Putin/Russia stuff. The very idea of the conspiracy theory itself gives him more power/influence than any attempt at election rigging ever could. Even the mere media mention of Russian interference essentially derailed Sanders campaign when he was leading early.

Sorry mate but you have no handle on history. First up did you not tell me “ you don’t see Republicans behaving this way “ ?
im not going tit for tat crap with you , but if you want to do a little research that will take literally seconds , you can find the Trump supporters now in JAIL for physical assaults.
Your half arsed attempt to appear balanced is not working mate.

War veterans , you did hear what Trump said about John McCain ? But your outraged by what Clinton said ?

As for Russian interference, you haven’t read any of the Muller report , have you ?
It’s not even in dispute they interfered.

Turn off Fox for a day or two and watch a few movies.

 

[King Harold]

Being this thread is now about politics in another country & hemisphere, hopefully we’ll get to all see each other on the other side of this whenever it may be

Come on Ossie , gives us another subject to get our teeth into .
I have to much time on my hands !

 

[ivan rassmussen]

So, I'm just wondering if history forgets about Blücher bailing out Wellington at Waterloo? Seems Wellington was more than happy to give him credit in his own lifetime, but with the onset of WW1, then WW2 a few decades later, and Germany being the enemy during that period, the Prussian involvement in defeating Napoleon has been consigned to the sidelines of history. (On a side note, Napoleon was only 1.57m - 5'2" - tall, and only 51 when he died. Probably a good height and build for a stocky rover if footy existed at the time, maybe a Sutton-type captain coach?)

 

[D Mitchell]

[

			Let’s talk about the economy first and I will cover the big areas up until Feb 2020: Jobs - in the last 35 months of the Obama administration, 227,000 jobs were created each month. In the first 35 months of the Trump administration ... articles from late last year and up until Feb 2020 of how the US economy was doing. Its rate of growth was slowing. In Transport, Farming & Manufacturing it was heading into or already in recession. So now it's job growth. Are you going to run through every economic indicator in an attempt to show that the US economy has not been strong since 2017 ? 2012 1.8 2013 2.2 2014 2.95 2015 2..7 2016 2.2 2017 2.11 2018 2.6 2019 2.16 Your figures, conveniently, start at the beginning of the boom year, 2014. If you go back to 2012, and before, Job growth figures were worse than the 2017 on figures. But even if you include 2014, how can you possibly dispute that the economy was strong when in the 3 post election years to 2020, 6.9 mil jobs were created ? The best you can conclude is that figures were better in previous years. What does that prove ? Picking 1 indicator is ridiculous, what about job losses over the period ? All you are doing is comparing years.

 

[Fossie 32]

So, I'm just wondering if history forgets about Blücher bailing out Wellington at Waterloo? Seems Wellington was more than happy to give him credit in his own lifetime, but with the onset of WW1, then WW2 a few decades later, and Germany being the enemy during that period, the Prussian involvement in defeating Napoleon has been consigned to the sidelines of history. (On a side note, Napoleon was only 1.57m - 5'2" - tall, and only 51 when he died. Probably a good height and build for a stocky rover if footy existed at the time, maybe a Sutton-type captain coach?)

I'm lost. Was he a Democrat or Republican?

 

[Guido]

Sorry mate but you have no handle on history. First up did you not tell me “ you don’t see Republicans behaving this way “ ?
im not going tit for tat crap with you , but if you want to do a little research that will take literally seconds , you can find the Trump supporters now in JAIL for physical assaults.
Your half arsed attempt to appear balanced is not working mate.

War veterans , you did hear what Trump said about John McCain ? But your outraged by what Clinton said ?

As for Russian interference, you haven’t read any of the Muller report , have you ?
It’s not even in dispute they interfered.

Turn off Fox for a day or two and watch a few movies.

My half arsed attempt to appear balanced? I can see the good and the bad in both sides, I don't know if that's half arsed. Are you balanced? Because you appear to see anyone advocating for any aspect of the opposite side of politics to you as some kind of evil.

Like I said, I'm happy to be corrected on violence. There's plenty of Antifa people jailed for these assaults - if there's dozens of "Trump supporter jailed for bashing Democrat supporter because they innocently walked on the same street" cases out there that I've missed, then I do apologise.

I'm disgusted by what Clinton said about HER OWN PARTY'S candidate (Tulsi Gabbard) when Hillary WASN'T EVEN RUNNING in the primary, yes. Tulsi is one of the most principled politians in the country, has bucketloads of integrity in her political positions, and served in Iraq multiple times - to imply she's put her life on the line for the US to then only become a puppet for Russia is beyond idiotic. Hillary is a proven liar and one of the establishment true pieces of work that people are currently rallying against, both left and right.

Not only did Trump say the idiotic thing about McCain when he himself had never served a second in the army, but also got into an ugly and needless tit-for-tat with a Gold Star family who had lost their child in Iraq - I don't know how many times I need to say it, I believe Trump's an idiot. But that doesn't mean people that support their president deserve to be bashed or ridiculed. And nor do I think that it's a smart strategy for people who want Trump elected out at the end of the year, because this belittling of his supporters plays into his hands/election strategy. What I'm saying is not controversial.

Oh and RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA! 3 years of concentrating on this horsesh1t and impeachment, and people wonder why voters check out. You obviously won't listen to me, but you might listen to a hard left of centre, progressive voice - if you search
YouTube for Jimmy Dore + Russiagate - you'll find some great commentary on why the whole thing is a joke. He is an excellent voice.

 

[ivan rassmussen]

With apologies to the Pythons...

We mustn't fight each other! Surely we should be united against the common enemy... GWS! (or in Leon's case... Norf! )

 

[dogwatch]

With apologies to the Pythons...

We mustn't fight each other! Surely we should be united against the common enemy... GWS! (or in Leon's case... Norf! )

We should petition Gill to merge GWS and Norf, so we can be united against the common enemy.

I'd like to throw Carlton in there too but I doubt he'd go that far. Anyway they've been moribund for so long they've become tragically irrelevant.

 

[King Harold]

My half arsed attempt to appear balanced? I can see the good and the bad in both sides, I don't know if that's half arsed. Are you balanced? Because you appear to see anyone advocating for any aspect of the opposite side of politics to you as some kind of evil.

Like I said, I'm happy to be corrected on violence. There's plenty of Antifa people jailed for these assaults - if there's dozens of "Trump supporter jailed for bashing Democrat supporter because they innocently walked on the same street" cases out there that I've missed, then I do apologise.

I'm disgusted by what Clinton said about HER OWN PARTY'S candidate (Tulsi Gabbard) when Hillary WASN'T EVEN RUNNING in the primary, yes. Tulsi is one of the most principled politians in the country, has bucketloads of integrity in her political positions, and served in Iraq multiple times - to imply she's put her life on the line for the US to then only become a puppet for Russia is beyond idiotic. Hillary is a proven liar and one of the establishment true pieces of work that people are currently rallying against, both left and right.

Not only did Trump say the idiotic thing about McCain when he himself had never served a second in the army, but also got into an ugly and needless tit-for-tat with a Gold Star family who had lost their child in Iraq - I don't know how many times I need to say it, I believe Trump's an idiot. But that doesn't mean people that support their president deserve to be bashed or ridiculed. And nor do I think that it's a smart strategy for people who want Trump elected out at the end of the year, because this belittling of his supporters plays into his hands/election strategy. What I'm saying is not controversial.

Oh and RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA! 3 years of concentrating on this horsesh1t and impeachment, and people wonder why voters check out. You obviously won't listen to me, but you might listen to a hard left of centre, progressive voice - if you search
YouTube for Jimmy Dore + Russiagate - you'll find some great commentary on why the whole thing is a joke. He is an excellent voice.

lm not trying to hide Behind some facade of balance.
My position is very clear , those that follow and vote for that idiot I just can’t respect.
The bloke is a crook , full stop.
And no , like you , I’m not advocating violence , by any side.

And as I suspected you have relied on some video that fits your narrative .
As the Trump mouth pieces celebrated ,it was all about the “ performance” of Muller in front of cameras , never mind about the content. You have chosen this little clip once again for effect !
How about you put up all the incoherent ramblings of the madman you seem to want to defend ?

you really have no idea what the Muller report found , have you ?

 

[ivan rassmussen]

We should petition Gill to merge GWS and Norf, so we can be united against the common enemy.

I'd like to throw Carlton in there too but I doubt he'd go that far. Anyway they've been moribund for so long they've become tragically irrelevant.

As I've advocated (jokingly ) in another thread, given our strong financial position, we should buy Carlton... and put their logo on the shorts of our VFL team. (Although, to be fair, I believe an offer in that format was made by Collingwood to Fitzroy in th 80s when talk of mergers had supporters of several clubs on edge. Carlton did explore buying North at one stage though, when North were privately owned by a small group of shareholders. Maybe we just buy Carlton and North? I'm not sure how Leon would cope with that?!)

 

[LittleG]

[

			So now it's job growth. Are you going to run through every economic indicator in an attempt to show that the US economy has not been strong since 2017 ? 2012 1.8 2013 2.2 2014 2.95 2015 2..7 2016 2.2 2017 2.11 2018 2.6 2019 2.16 Your figures, conveniently, start at the beginning of the boom year, 2014. If you go back to 2012, and before, Job growth figures were worse than the 2017 on figures. But even if you include 2014, how can you possibly dispute that the economy was strong when in the 3 post election years to 2020, 6.9 mil jobs were created ? The best you can conclude is that figures were better in previous years. What does that prove ? Picking 1 indicator is ridiculous, what about job losses over the period ? All you are doing is comparing years.

Mate.

I took the 3 year period prior to Trump being elected to compare to the 3 year period after he was elected. Just those 6 years in isolation as they are the most recent. Without going back to the GFC (which was created by a completely unregulated financial sector), I chose the most recent years to compare.

Jobs is probably the best indicator of an economy. Unemployment tends to be miscalculated in the US.

 

[D Mitchell]

i am prepared to say anyone that followed that con man /moron , is deplorable.

Just as well Monarchs can't also run for President.

 

[Guido]

And as I suspected you have relied on some video that fits your narrative .
As the Trump mouth pieces celebrated ,it was all about the “ performance” of Muller in front of cameras , never mind about the content. You have chosen this little clip once again for effect !

you really have no idea what the Muller report found , have you ?

Little clip? It's a 45 minute takedown. Jimmy Dore has gone through literally hundreds of videos tearing the Mueller report and Russiagate apart, and Dore is as *anti-Trump as anybody*.

Watch the video. Mueller himself doesn't even know the content of the report!

Ask yourself, if the position was reversed, Hillary had won, and Fox News and Trump were on the sidelines yelling RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE, RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE, RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE!, and a report showed some evidence of what could be deemed as interference (e.g. Russia leaking Trump's emails, bugged conversations or tax returns that painted him in a bad light, releasing pics of Trump in a hotel room with prositutes), you would see Fox News and Trump as utterly delusional and wouldn't buy into this idea for a second.

How about you put up all the incoherent ramblings of the madman you seem to want to defend ?

Where am I defending him?

In the very post you quoted, I expanded to include more irrational and unforgivable things he has said and done, and said I considered him an idiot. If you read and comprehended that, and still arguing that I'm somehow defending him, you're discussing this in bad faith and continuing any further is pointless.

Saying that he knows how to win and how to get people behind him is not "defending him", it's a statement of fact. That you'll probably need to win over some of his supporters to be more likely to win the next election. Fact. That you're not going to win people over by ridiculing or abusing them, fact. Pointing these things are not patting Trump on the back.

You see the world through the lens of anyone voting another way to your preference can't be respected, yet can't see that it's that very attitude that pushes so many to vote that way in the first place. If those on the Democratic campaign trail have a similar outlook of demonizing and ridiculing anyone they disagree with, then they'll probably need to start coming to terms with having to deal with 4 more years of him. Then probably start mentally preparing for his son to be president.

lm not trying to hide Behind some facade of balance.

You've previously insinuated that I am.

It's not a facade - IMO there are outstanding arguments, ideas, great people and utter halfwits on both sides of the political aisle.

 

[D Mitchell]

Mate.

I took the 3 year period prior to Trump being elected to compare to the 3 year period after he was elected. Just those 6 years in isolation as they are the most recent. Without going back to the GFC (which was created by a completely unregulated financial sector), I chose the most recent years to compare.

Jobs is probably the best indicator of an economy. Unemployment tends to be miscalculated in the US.

GFC was 2008.

Year GDP GDP / C %

2019 21.42 $65,456 4.23

2018 20.54 $62,794 4.78

2017 19.49 $59,927 3.49

2016 18.71 $57,904 1.91

2015 18.21 $56,803 3.21

2014 17.52 $55032 3.62

2013 16.78 $53,106

Job creation is not the best indicator of an economy, it’s not even a reliable indicator of employment in the economy because it ignores job losses. Gross Domestic Product and GDP per Capita are the best indicators of the strength of the economy because they measure growth. Using your 6 years, the economy grew by an average of 4.16 % from 2017. Not that it matters, but by comparison, the average increase in the previous 3 years was 2.91 %.

You can't dispute that the US economy was strong during those years.

(Sorry, can't get the hang of recording or inserting tables)