Coronavirus/COVID-19

[dogwatch]

Are you seriously using that line? Seems like a lot of haters getting on that bandwagon.

Dunno about bandwagon. I thought it was a sleigh.

 

[dogwatch]

Some more stuff that's been reported in the last day or so:

• New York state which has an official case count of nearly 270,000 as of Friday evening AEST may actually have a true case count of something like 2.7 million cases (or 13.9% of the population) according to a study cited by Andrew Cuomo. That would be ten times the official figure! It's not yet clear how much immunity those 2.7m people would have, if correct. I don't know how much credence to place on the figure but Cuomo saw fit to quote it.
• While the first official case in NY was recorded on 1 March they think it might have been already established by late January and that by 1 March the real case count might have been 11,000 (according to the modelling).
• Governor Cuomo says that NY's official death toll (currently nearly 21,000) is almost certainly quite a bit less than the true number.
• Dr Norman Swan (ABC) says the numbers in Australia are probably much more accurate than those of NY but even then we might have identified only about 80-90% of the true number of cases. If this is correct you could extrapolate that there are at least another 50 currently infected and contagious people in Victoria who have not been identified and probably don't know they have the disease. Maybe as many as 80 or more. This may give pause to those keen on easing restrictions ASAP.
• There have been numerous reports from all over the world (S Korea, China, Italy, USA, etc) of people who have been infected and recovered but who test positive some weeks and even months after seemingly full recovery. Nobody is really sure why this should happen and what it means for the reproduction rate (R0) of Covid19. Are these people as likely to spread the disease as someone newly infected? We don't know yet, but once it's better understood it would clearly have a bearing on when and how we ease the lockdown arrangements.
• Despite all the chaos and tragedy in NY state they are still talking about easing restrictions in late May. Brave! Or stupid. Or both. We are in far better shape in Australia yet we're being far more cautious. So I wonder - is life cheaper in the USA than here? As President Calvin Coolidge once said: "the chief business of the American people is business". I know it's always a trade-off at some point but does this mean business comes out that far ahead of saving lives?

Here's one link to some of the above, but it's been widely reported, even from News Corp outlets.

1st New York Antibody Study Finds Millions Infected, Daily Deaths Hit Lowest Level in Weeks

Up to 2.7 million New Yorkers may have been infected with coronavirus — more than 10 times the number of confirmed cases, according to preliminary results from the state’s first antibody study. Less than two months ago, there were zero known cases here. How did the virus spread so dramatically...

www.nbcnewyork.com

As a bonus, this link also has the news clip of Trump touting injection of disinfectant as a possible treatment.

 

[TempletonTheRat]

we are not immune to this in Australia either

with Dr. Paleo Pete

TGA fines Pete Evans more than $25,000 after coronavirus claims

Celebrity chef Pete Evans is issued two infringement notices by the Therapeutic Goods Administration over claims he made about the BioCharger "hybrid subtle energy revitalisation platform".

www.abc.net.au

 

[Arkangel]

we are not immune to this in Australia either

with Dr. Paleo Pete

TGA fines Pete Evans more than $25,000 after coronavirus claims

Celebrity chef Pete Evans is issued two infringement notices by the Therapeutic Goods Administration over claims he made about the BioCharger "hybrid subtle energy revitalisation platform".

www.abc.net.au

In his defence, there was no science in the palaeolithic era… so in a way he's just being extra authentic.

 

[King Harold]

I had only seen the clip of him talking about it - but shortly before that an "expert" was talking about the impact sunlight had on the half life of the virus on surfaces, and the half life of the virus when airborne etc

meanwhile - not actually listening to what was being said .......... the genius was putting that thing in his head to work
View attachment 864097

Have a look at today's offering .
His attempt to back out of this is hilarious .

 

[LittleG]

we are not immune to this in Australia either

with Dr. Paleo Pete

TGA fines Pete Evans more than $25,000 after coronavirus claims

Celebrity chef Pete Evans is issued two infringement notices by the Therapeutic Goods Administration over claims he made about the BioCharger "hybrid subtle energy revitalisation platform".

www.abc.net.au

The Paleo Diet is such a sham. Sure you lose weight BUT the side effects are severe and can be life threatening. This guy is as bad as a certain Porsche driver.... or the President of the United States.

 

[DelRe]

Some more stuff that's been reported in the last day or so:

• New York state which has an official case count of nearly 270,000 as of Friday evening AEST may actually have a true case count of something like 2.7 million cases (or 13.9% of the population) according to a study cited by Andrew Cuomo. That would be ten times the official figure! It's not yet clear how much immunity those 2.7m people would have, if correct. I don't know how much credence to place on the figure but Cuomo saw fit to quote it.
• While the first official case in NY was recorded on 1 March they think it might have been already established by late January and that by 1 March the real case count might have been 11,000 (according to the modelling).
• Governor Cuomo says that NY's official death toll (currently nearly 21,000) is almost certainly quite a bit less than the true number.
• Dr Norman Swan (ABC) says the numbers in Australia are probably much more accurate than those of NY but even then we might have identified only about 80-90% of the true number of cases. If this is correct you could extrapolate that there are at least another 50 currently infected and contagious people in Victoria who have not been identified and probably don't know they have the disease. Maybe as many as 80 or more. This may give pause to those keen on easing restrictions ASAP.
• There have been numerous reports from all over the world (S Korea, China, Italy, USA, etc) of people who have been infected and recovered but who test positive some weeks and even months after seemingly full recovery. Nobody is really sure why this should happen and what it means for the reproduction rate (R0) of Covid19. Are these people as likely to spread the disease as someone newly infected? We don't know yet, but once it's better understood it would clearly have a bearing on when and how we ease the lockdown arrangements.
• Despite all the chaos and tragedy in NY state they are still talking about easing restrictions in late May. Brave! Or stupid. Or both. We are in far better shape in Australia yet we're being far more cautious. So I wonder - is life cheaper in the USA than here? As President Calvin Coolidge once said: "the chief business of the American people is business". I know it's always a trade-off at some point but does this mean business comes out that far ahead of saving lives?

Here's one link to some of the above, but it's been widely reported, even from News Corp outlets.

1st New York Antibody Study Finds Millions Infected, Daily Deaths Hit Lowest Level in Weeks

Up to 2.7 million New Yorkers may have been infected with coronavirus — more than 10 times the number of confirmed cases, according to preliminary results from the state’s first antibody study. Less than two months ago, there were zero known cases here. How did the virus spread so dramatically...

www.nbcnewyork.com

As a bonus, this link also has the news clip of Trump touting injection of disinfectant as a possible treatment.

There’s no chaos in NY. There is urgency and concern regarding the potential overwhelming of the health system but it has been far from chaos. Cuomo whatever your view of politics has been a very effective leader during this period. Your post is a misrepresentation of NY currently - particularly as it relates to opening up and suggestions of taking a trade off between the economy and lives.

 

[ScragCity]

The Paleo Diet is such a sham. Sure you lose weight BUT the side effects are severe and can be life threatening. This guy is as bad as a certain Porsche driver.... or the President of the United States.

The side effects of eating a meat and vegetable wholefood diet are severe and life threatening? Can you talk more about that with specificity? You know that Dale Morris is on a paleo diet, right?

Look mate, I think the theory behind a paleo diet is stupid but to pretend it's unhealthy is just dishonest.

 

[LittleG]

The side effects of eating a meat and vegetable wholefood diet are severe and life threatening? Can you talk more about that with specificity? You know that Dale Morris is on a paleo diet, right?

Look mate, I think the theory behind a paleo diet is stupid but to pretend it's unhealthy is just dishonest.

Lack of ‘free’ carbs entering the blood stream causes lots of problems. Paleo has too little carbs. Even adjusting it up a little, makes a huge difference to health.

Eating meat, vegetables and whole grains is good for you. Without the grains, it’s not.

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Dogwatch I find your views balanced although I do not always agree with them. Not like someone else who suggested I leave the country because I had a different view. As for politics I have no firm views either way liberal or labour and I tend to be more influenced by the leader of the party. Yes you are correct I prefer Scott to Dan.

Dan who in the early stages made decisions in advance of the Feds, who were playing catch-up with Victoria for a while? And if your politics is neither way, and you’re referring several times to Dictator Dan, I assume during the bushfires you referred to Absent and Incompetent Scott?

 

[ScragCity]

Lack of ‘free’ carbs entering the blood stream causes lots of problems. Paleo has too little carbs. Even adjusting it up a little, makes a huge difference to health.

Eating meat, vegetables and whole grains is good for you. Without the grains, it’s not.

Can you point me to any peer-reviewed studies that provide evidence of this? Sounds like rubbish to me. There are small, isolated, pre-industrial communities of humans still in existence who enjoy fantastic health on a diet with no grains. I'm not advocating for paleo and I don't think grains are detrimental to people who don't have celiac disease; I think it's absolute bullshit that they are essential for good health though.

It seems to me that your idea of nutrition is based on some kind of antiquated food pyramid that was used 50 years ago. The idea that grains are essential in a humans diet sounds similar to the idea that we can't get enough calcium without drinking cow's milk. Grains are absolutely essential for our ability to feed the human population and our food systems wouldn't cope without them. They are cheap and easy to grow and they are nutrient dense. Those things are certainly true. And the idea that we all individually need to eat them for our health is a useful narrative to keep us consuming them but my suspicion is that it's bullshit.

 

[LittleG]

Can you point me to any peer-reviewed studies that provide evidence of this? Sounds like rubbish to me. There are small, isolated, pre-industrial communities of humans still in existence who enjoy fantastic health on a diet with no grains. I'm not advocating for paleo and I don't think grains are detrimental to people who don't have celiac disease; I think it's absolute bullshit that they are essential for good health though.

It seems to me that your idea of nutrition is based on some kind of antiquated food pyramid that was used 50 years ago. The idea that grains are essential in a humans diet sounds similar to the idea that we can't get enough calcium without drinking cow's milk. Grains are absolutely essential for our ability to feed the human population and our food systems wouldn't cope without them. They are cheap and easy to grow and they are nutrient dense. Those things are certainly true. And the idea that we all individually need to eat them for our health is a useful narrative to keep us consuming them but my suspicion is that it's bullshit.

I went on the Paleo diet. Did blood tests while on it. Experienced the side effects for myself. Took years to recover.


There are studies which I read about.

 

[ScragCity]

I went on the Paleo diet. Did blood tests while on it. Experienced the side effects for myself. Took years to recover.


There are studies which I read about.

Anecdotal. I went on paleo for a year and felt fine. I stopped because it was expensive/inconvenient and I didnt feel like I was experiencing any significant benefits. Can you tell me specifically what these mysterious "side effects" were and what your blood test results showed? It's also possible to go on a paleo diet and do a poor job. You could eat exclusively sausages for three meals a day and experience significant negative health effects and claim that paleo is bad because it made you sick but that's not really valuable evidence.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Bored so watching the 2009 home and away game between Saints and Cats. A painful year for me, as I thought we could have done it that year, beating the cats and just losing after the siren in the other games against them, and that PF against the Saints when Riewoldt dived and got the free kick, take that back and it was a free kick or even less if we had goaled instead of having that call against us. A low point in Bulldog history.

 

[dogwatch]

Just to add a bit more commentary to a point I made above:

Despite all the chaos and tragedy in NY state they are still talking about easing restrictions in late May. Brave! Or stupid. Or both. We are in far better shape in Australia yet we're being far more cautious. So I wonder - is life cheaper in the USA than here? As President Calvin Coolidge once said: "the chief business of the American people is business". I know it's always a trade-off at some point but does this mean business comes out that far ahead of saving lives?

I presume one reason for wanting to resume early (apart from the obvious economic driver) is that if the suggested case rate really is 14% of the population, most of them now recovered, then there should be greater immunity among the general population than had been assumed.

I'm still very sceptical. It sounds a bit like looking for a reason to ease restrictions when most of the medical experts are suggesting it's still too early. For a start the level of herd immunity required has been suggested as a minimum of 70% but possibly higher (it depends on the R0 value). Secondly it's way too early to have any confidence in the level and duration of immunity given by a past infection. There have even been suggestions - as yet unproven - that it's possible to get the disease a second time shortly after the first. This is probably tied up with the other phenomenon I mentioned - the reports of people testing positive long after they've apparently recovered. There's so much that is still unknown about the behaviour of this disease.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Dan who in the early stages made decisions in advance of the Feds, who were playing catch-up with Victoria for a while? And if your politics is neither way, and you’re referring several times to Dictator Dan, I assume during the bushfires you referred to Absent and Incompetent Scott?

Like I say everyone is entitled to their opinion yours is nether right or wrong. Maybe Scott should have been around at the start of the bushfires. I just find him a much more genuine leader than Dictator Dan if want to use an example what about his appalling handling of the fire fighters.

You are obviously a Dan and maybe a strong labour supporter, as I say I do not have allegiance to either but I would prefer Scott to Dan anyday of the week. That does make me right or wrong it is an opinion that should not offend any big footy posters.

 

[dogwatch]

There’s no chaos in NY. There is urgency and concern regarding the potential overwhelming of the health system but it has been far from chaos. Cuomo whatever your view of politics has been a very effective leader during this period. Your post is a misrepresentation of NY currently - particularly as it relates to opening up and suggestions of taking a trade off between the economy and lives.

Fair point about the word "chaos". Certainly if you compare it to the early weeks in northern Italy. I agree NY has held it together pretty well considering their circumstances.

How about "disruption" instead?

The rest I stand by. These things are always a trade-off between lives, values and way of life. It applies to the National Cabinet's thinking here too. What varies is where different jurisdictions decide to draw the line.

This way of thinking is understandable and pragmatic. It goes way beyond Covid19. It applies to the road toll for instance, industrial safety, controls on use of recreational drugs like nicotine and alcohol, voluntary vaccination and so on. You draw a line that gives you best results for least disruption and cost, and hope you get the balance right.

In our case we are on the conservative side in easing restrictions and I think that's appropriate considering the risks. It appears NY (and elsewhere in the USA by the look of it) are looking to be a bit more adventurous than we are. There's no right answer but how much you value saving lives clearly has a fair bit to do with it.

 

[wayniac]

So good they named it twice? (AWS Services).

Like ATM machine?

 

[TempletonTheRat]

very interesting article with a lot of food for thought

We Are Living in a Failed State

The coronavirus didn’t break America. It revealed what was already broken.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Like I say everyone is entitled to their opinion yours is nether right or wrong. Maybe Scott should have been around at the start of the bushfires. I just find him a much more genuine leader than Dictator Dan if want to use an example what about his appalling handling of the fire fighters.

You are obviously a Dan and maybe a strong labour supporter, as I say I do not have allegiance to either but I would prefer Scott to Dan anyday of the week. That does make me right or wrong it is an opinion that should not offend any big footy posters.

You love Scott Morrison and dislike “Dictator Dan”?
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say you’re a raging, closet Liberal supporter OD.

Out of interest, what do you dislike so much about Andrews and his governing?

 

[DelRe]

Fair point about the word "chaos". Certainly if you compare it to the early weeks in northern Italy. I agree NY has held it together pretty well considering their circumstances.

How about "disruption" instead?

The rest I stand by. These things are always a trade-off between lives, values and way of life. It applies to the National Cabinet's thinking here too. What varies is where different jurisdictions decide to draw the line.

This way of thinking is understandable and pragmatic. It goes way beyond Covid19. It applies to the road toll for instance, industrial safety, controls on use of recreational drugs like nicotine and alcohol, voluntary vaccination and so on. You draw a line that gives you best results for least disruption and cost, and hope you get the balance right.

In our case we are on the conservative side in easing restrictions and I think that's appropriate considering the risks. It appears NY (and elsewhere in the USA by the look of it) are looking to be a bit more adventurous than we are. There's no right answer but how much you value saving lives clearly has a fair bit to do with it.

Disruption is occurring all over the world, not just NY and what you’re saying about the state is wrong.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Like I say everyone is entitled to their opinion yours is nether right or wrong. Maybe Scott should have been around at the start of the bushfires. I just find him a much more genuine leader than Dictator Dan if want to use an example what about his appalling handling of the fire fighters.

You are obviously a Dan and maybe a strong labour supporter, as I say I do not have allegiance to either but I would prefer Scott to Dan anyday of the week. That does make me right or wrong it is an opinion that should not offend any big footy posters.

I am not a Labour supporter as such, I am a bit more left than that Centre right party, however I quite like Daniel Andrews, I think he is moulded in the Keating mould, (minus the witty sledges), in that he has a strong conviction about things, whereas Scott Morrison keeps an eye on the polls and uses marketing strategies which come across to me as superficial and not genuine.

I admire and respect a leader who has conviction about things regardless of party, i.e. Howard in the firearms changes after Port Arthur. Not blind ideological convictions ie. Abbott influenced by his religious dogma.

 

[wayniac]

I am not a Labour supporter as such, I am a bit more left than that Centre right party, however I quite like Daniel Andrews, I think he is moulded in the Keating mould, (minus the witty sledges), in that he has a strong conviction about things, whereas Scott Morrison keeps an eye on the polls and uses marketing strategies which come across to me as superficial and not genuine.

I admire and respect a leader who has conviction about things regardless of party, i.e. Howard in the firearms changes after Port Arthur. Not blind ideological convictions ie. Abbott influenced by his religious dogma.

Wow a Keating disciple.....

Paul Keating has praised what he sees as Donald Trump's "practical" approach of finding common ground with China rather than insisting on US global hegemony.

Skirting over news of US tariffs on steel imports, the former Labor prime minister said the US must adopt a balance of power strategy with China but with "partnership diplomacy", or risk military conflict.

"Perhaps, strange but true, President Donald Trump is following that formula," Mr Keating said during an address at the Wharton Global Forum on Friday.



Former prime minister Paul Keating has called on the Hayne royal commission to recommend that retail super funds be stopped from putting profits ahead of super fund members.

"We need to be able to peer through the corporate entity to what is in the best interests of their members," he said.




Senator HILL (Environment) —The point is that the Australian Labor Party have been making a big issue of conflict of interest and, to use Senator Robert Ray's expression, perceived conflict of interest. They have attacked our side and they have attacked our ministers on the basis of what they say is conflict of interest.

In the case of Mr Keating, he was Prime Minister of this country when he was conducting this highly complex set of arrangements—he was selling his half interest in his pig venture to Indonesian businessmen while at the same time he was negotiating a defence treaty with the President of Indonesia. This is as a Prime Minister dealing with the highest matters of state with Indonesia while at the same time he was negotiating the sale of his piggery interest to Indonesians. What about a conflict of interest or perceived conflict of interest in that regard?

Yes, we have received further information from Indonesia overnight. That information purports to be a statement of record of what Mr Keating's solicitor instructed in relation to dealing with the transaction.

Of course Keating also sold the Commonwealth Bank to the rich. Who could afford bargain priced shares just after “The recession we had to have”.?

We set the bar very low when we adulate Keating.

 

[wayniac]

Just waiting for the industry funds to implode too. With 25% in unlisted securities, mainly toll roads, airports and construction, can't wait for the "from little things, smaller things grow". Another of the left/labor party messes that Keating started. We need a fully funded state pension not superannuation for the rich. Of course Keatings is a guaranteed motza, not like the one the plebs get.

 

[D Mitchell]

Wow, Murdoch has really got to you.

If Labor, had committed the sports rorts, there would have been a Royal Commission, instead it has been conveniently swept under the rug, even though the Prime Minister was implicated in the decision making of giving out funding to handpicked groups in marginal seats, against the recommendation of the Sports body, two days before caretaker mode before the election. Other Grants were given out that groups didn’t even have to apply for, such a lack of probity is poor governance at best, or corruption at worst.

The Minister resigned

How about the Murray Darling, Labour tried to encourage industries that didn’t consume water the way cotton and rice do, yet the Nats got the farmers in a frenzy over it. The environmental devastation from these decisions will effect generations to come. How about ”old family values” himself, running off with one of his staff and having a baby, but voting against Same Sex Marriage because of his family values. What about another Federal member getting advice on illegal land clearing on one of his properties, after he had already committed the act, isn’t that misusing his Parliamentry privilege?

Joyce stood down. Google Gareth Evans. Don't know the land clearance reference

Rudd performed the miracle of keeping Australia out of the GFC, through his economic stimulus payment, something the Coalition were relentlessly critical of, never gave him credit for, instead it was supposedly a waste of money. Where are those critics now, when the Coalition is copying him?

While we have a national disgrace with the under-payment of vulnerable workers through some of the biggest corporations in Australia, instead Cash and co go after the Union movement, gagging them from protecting workers, but there real agenda is to try to stop the source of funding to the Labour Party by the unions. The fact that Australians lead the world in unpaid work, because our protections have been stripped away, is a national disgrace.

They constantly vote down moves for a Federal ICAC, because they don’t want the transparency.
They don’t want to declare their donations because it will then become obvious who are buying favours.
Let’s talk about the economy, stagnant wage growth, the casualisation of the labor force, corporations like Banks and Insurance companies blatantly ripping off people. How many times did the Coalition vote against a Royal Commission into the Banks?

Finally democracy, you know things like the right to a peaceful protest, freedom of the press, transparency not secrecy about tax funded departments like Border Force, protecting all citizens not encouraging the marginalisation of groups, protection of whistleblowers. We already have had our democracy downgraded from open to narrowing. Where is the media coverage of all of this? Not Sky News, not the tabloids, the ABC has had is budget slashed, and great current affairs where real journalism works closed down.

How about the sacking of senior experienced public servant heads and instead only getting advice from your political advisors, the loss of political memory in this country is so destructive, we will keep repeating the same mistakes. Laura Tingle’s excellent essay on this is a must read. Below is the report on the loss of democracy since the Right have got into power around the world.

https://civicus.contentfiles.net/media/assets/file/GlobalReport2019.pdf

But as you say Labor‘s indiscretions are supposedly a lot worse, god help Australia if they are.

Murdoch has not really got to me. I identified 3 allegations of indiscretions in all that. McKenzie stood down. Joyce stood down, google Gareth Evans. The rest is zealotry.