Coronavirus/COVID-19

[D Mitchell]

Are we talking NSW state polititics or Federal politics?

Either way you have bought into the cultural wars, repeating propoganda, which is exactly my original point you rely on Murdoch for your truth.

Let’s put this another way, what policies do you agree with and why?
oh here’s a prompt, environment, welfare, taxation, immigration, workplace relations.

Environment. How come the crisis disappeared ? Where’s Greta and Atifa ? Who isn’t in favour of the cleanest environment possible ? Absolutely nobody. Aus sits on more coal and yellow cake than you could eat, we export both. Madness. Until technology works out how to cheaply, without government subsidies look how well that worked out in the car industry. Until wind, sun etc else, becomes economically viable, plonk a nuclear reactor or 2 north of the Nullabor, on stilts, maybe someone will work out a way of flooding the inland in the meantime.



Righto, your turn, but no emotive stuff

 

[D Mitchell]

[QUOTE="King Harold, post: 65023425, member: 1429

impressed with the level of co operation.[/QUOTE]

Me too, Andrews is a disgrace, the most egocentric and overpaid politician in the western world but he's been O K of late.

Trump is the President of the US. From our point of view, he's been good. He's committed the US to Asia-Pacific engagement. We massively benefit from the Alliance. I don't trust Trump but I trust the Democrats even less. If I was a yank (like a lot of us, I have family there) I'd be looking at Aus and saying why not ? We get to have a low death rate because we can afford to drop our commercial and military guard, we have the US to guarantee our freedom.

 

[ScragCity]

Me too, Andrews is a disgrace, the most egocentric and overpaid politician in the western world but he's been O K of late.

Trump is the President of the US. From our point of view, he's been good. He's committed the US to Asia-Pacific engagement. We massively benefit from the Alliance. I don't trust Trump but I trust the Democrats even less. If I was a yank (like a lot of us, I have family there) I'd be looking at Aus and saying why not ? We get to have a low death rate because we can afford to drop our commercial and military guard, we have the US to guarantee our freedom.

The mental gymnastics you've exhibited to attribute our low death rate to Trump is truly impressive.

 

[Mattdougie]

 

[D Mitchell]

The mental gymnastics you've exhibited to attribute our low death rate to Trump is truly impressive.

Undeservered praise is the second sweetest of all. On Anzac Day, let's dip our collective lids to Paul Keating's "sweetest victory of all for the true believers". Thanks, mate. Go Scraggers

 

[D Mitchell]

I have to say I am glad to see D Mitchell back on the forum tonight and has not taken Trumps’ Kool Aid: that is bleach, disinfectant, chloroquine, inter- body UV rays, extreme heat and humidity for the treatment of Covid-19. Glad you aren’t quite the full cult member. Go doggies.

\Thanks, brisDog. I'm a free thinker, not a spree thinker. I share your disdain for all cults unless they are blessed by the Pope. My Grandfather, James Charles was born in Brisbane. It can't be all bad.

 

[King Harold]

The mental gymnastics you've exhibited to attribute our low death rate to Trump is truly impressive.

Gotta admit Scrag , he keeps his politics close to his chest.

 

[King Harold]

[QUOTE="King Harold, post: 65023425, member: 1429

impressed with the level of co operation.

Me too, Andrews is a disgrace, the most egocentric and overpaid politician in the western world but he's been O K of late.

Trump is the President of the US. From our point of view, he's been good. He's committed the US to Asia-Pacific engagement. We massively benefit from the Alliance. I don't trust Trump but I trust the Democrats even less. If I was a yank (like a lot of us, I have family there) I'd be looking at Aus and saying why not ? We get to have a low death rate because we can afford to drop our commercial and military guard, we have the US to guarantee our freedom.
[/QUOTE]

I think I could think of someone more egocentric person than Andrews , without thinking to hard.

The Asia- Pacific alliance , mate it’s been in place pretty much since WW2. What in the hell are you on about ?
You want to give Trump credit for that as well ?

You don’t “trust Trump” , yes you do , your like a few others on here just too embarrassed to admit it.
He doing your head in cause it’s as plain as day the blokes a narcissistic moron , but he on the ” right ” team.
Mate you are a barracker .
“ Dont assume my politics “. Dear me , not sure you would be much of a poker player !

 

[D Mitchell]

...
He doing your head in cause it’s as plain as day the blokes a narcissistic moron , but he on the ” right ” team.
Mate you are a barracker .
“ Dont assume my politics “. Dear me , not sure you would be much of a poker player !

Just wondering, have you had your medication?

i know I should not have said that, but your post is just ridiculous and unwarranted.

 

[King Harold]

Just wondering, have you had your medication?

i know I should not have said that, but your post is just ridiculous and unwarranted.

Yep just washed down some draino pellets with some Pino Clean.

 

[Mutt]

 

[King Harold]

View attachment 864680

ENJOY.!

 

[King Harold]

View attachment 864997

Slightly comforting Mutt , but for those top 4 or 5 countries , that death rate is still horrific .
Lets hope there’s a Sharp dip south in those charts very soon .

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Just wondering, have you had your medication?

i know I should not have said that, but your post is just ridiculous and unwarranted.

So people are zealots and on medication because they have a different view of the world to you? And you think you’re a free thinker?! Not very good at this discussion thing are you? I’ve had enough of reading your blind Trump idolatry - loving my Ignore option these days.

 

[LittleG]

View attachment 864680

I don’t normally like your posts but this is gold!!!!





Except about Honeychurch and Jong, they were spot on.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Environment. How come the crisis disappeared ? Where’s Greta and Atifa ? Who isn’t in favour of the cleanest environment possible ? Absolutely nobody. Aus sits on more coal and yellow cake than you could eat, we export both. Madness. Until technology works out how to cheaply, without government subsidies look how well that worked out in the car industry. Until wind, sun etc else, becomes economically viable, plonk a nuclear reactor or 2 north of the Nullabor, on stilts, maybe someone will work out a way of flooding the inland in the meantime.



Righto, your turn, but no emotive stuff

Umm if I understand your reply, you are saying there is no environmental crisis, that you don’t support the clean energy sector if they need some government funding, your solution is to dump a nuclear reactor in the Nullarbor.

My five minute policy on the environment without a lot of consideration to funding or legislation would be to invest in the clean energy sector, we have the highest amount of sunshine for any first world country for solar and wind energy. by removing the subsidies to the mining companies, and despite Gina and Clive squealing and the mining sector bullying consecutive governments (both the Coalition and Labour,) go for increased taxes on mining resources to invest back into research into the environment.
Stop the brain drain of our scientists to more progressive countries
I would do what the UK has done and put wind turbines in the bass strait, if they can cope with the Irish Sea, I am sure they will cope there.
I would tap the methane gas that comes from landfills to run communities power supplies
i Would set a timeframe to wipe out coal fired power plants for good.
i would use solar street lights
i would toughen up on dirty cars, by giving the EPA some real clout
I would reinstate the funding to the CSIRO, for research into climate change. I would encourage Australia to become the innovative country with solutions to climate change, not lagging behind.
i would invest money into proper recycling plants and encourage innovation in recycling, along with a campaign to change people’s behaviour away from being a throw away society to a recycling society, I would prioritise workers from the mining and forestry sectors to be skilled up in this area for employment
i would remove the tax on the purchase of electric cars, and hydro cars.
i would instruct government departments to use electric cars or hydro cars
i would educate the public on the crisis of climate change, it would be part of the school curriculum. So that people actually understand what it is, how it effects our oceans, our rivers, our flora and fauna and the need and consequences if we don’t reduce our carbon footprint and stop the planet heating up by two or three degrees. People would understand that scientists have been warning us about climate change since the 50s when it was first recognised. It is not some lefty plot.
i would stop the destruction of old growth forests and encourage the use of recycling for building materials and paper or use other materials such as bamboo fibre.
i would be working with farmers to plant more trees, to provide shelter for animals and to reduce carbon dioxide and move away from crops that are water intensive and just not sustainable for the Australian climate
i would encourage everybody to install a water tank.
I would put more public land aside to sow more trees, one of the easiest most effective ways of cooling the planet. This would mean a halt on the urban sprawl.

So to summarise
1. Educate everybody on climate change and stop it being used as a tool in the cultural wars
2. Tax the dirty manufacturers I.e. the mining industry and use that money to reinstate and resource research and development on the environment
3. Phase out coal fuelled power plants and replace with alternative clean sources of energy over two years by resourcing our R&D sector
4. Focus on giving people the tools to do something about climate change, I.e. plant trees, recycle, water tanks.
5. Work with farmers, schools and the community to work towards keeping the planets temperature down.

 

[dogwatch]

All good stuff DrB. I realise this is aspirational so it's important to get ideas out there. I'd be rapt if we could achieve even a quarter of that in the next decade.

The biggest problems are the need for massive restructure of industry, the workforce, our tax system and our revenue base (both for governments and for the economy as a whole) and especially the difficulty in getting collaboration both nationally and globally. The opposition to it from big corporates would be huge and relentless. So would the opposition from regional Australia even though they could benefit enormously down the track. There is huge export potential in renewables with the opportunity to replace coal, but it obvioulsy won't happen overnight.

While the environment is a far greater existential threat to us than Covid19, its slow-burn nature, opposition from vested interests and the need for action on so many fronts will continue to mean we won't act on the scale required (as we have with the pandemic) until it's too late. I'm an optimist by nature but I honestly think we're f**ked. Maybe not in my lifetime but within a 100 years. Wars, food shortages, water shortages, environmental calamities, plagues, despots, etc. Most of it is related to global overpopulation and resource usage. The rest is related to human nature and the impossibility of getting concerted global action.

The unexpected level of co-operation and urgent action that occurred in response to Covid19 gives me some faint hope but that is a very different beast to the looming ecological and overpopulation disaster.

Our challenges, both national and global, have been summarised by the Commission for the Human Future chaired by John Hewson, former leader of the Liberal Party.

A report titled Surviving and Thriving in the 21st Century, published today by the Commission for the Human Future, has isolated ten potentially catastrophic threats to human survival.

Not prioritised over one another, these risks are:

1. decline of natural resources, particularly water
2. collapse of ecosystems and loss of biodiversity
3. human population growth beyond Earth’s carrying capacity
4. global warming and human-induced climate change
5. chemical pollution of the Earth system, including the atmosphere and oceans
6. rising food insecurity and failing nutritional quality
7. nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction
8. pandemics of new and untreatable disease
9. the advent of powerful, uncontrolled new technology
10. national and global failure to understand and act preventatively on these risks.

There are 10 catastrophic threats facing humans right now, and coronavirus is only one of them

Other existential risks include the decline of natural resources (particularly water), human population growth beyond the Earth’s carrying capacity, and nuclear weapons.

theconversation.com

Despite all my gloom there's a constructive take-home message in the article. Even if the totality of our challenges seems overwhelming we can still do our own bit at home and in our daily lives. Think globally, act locally.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Thanks dogwatch, and as we know you can’t focus on one issue without consideration to other policy areas, I just responded to the poster on the environment as that is all he offered.

Raising the thorny issue of overpopulation, I really think the pandemic is nature fighting back, we are overpopulated, and the strong reaction to China’s one child policy I can’t see overpopulation being tackled anytime soon unfortunately.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

Yeah, nah. You don't need to eat processed sugar to raise your glucose. Try eating a piece of fruit

Good morning, I’m Dr Toboggan. I understand you’re here because you’re concerned about your diet. Please help yourself to these jellybeans while we conduct a full assessment.

 

[LittleG]

Must be done first:
Federal Anti-Corruption Body - that’s permanent and well funded. Can look at both State and Federal issues.

New National Bank & adopt recommendations from Royal Commission.

Fund ASIC properly. Legislate minimum jail terms & asset recovery for large scale fraud & financial irregularities.



Would like to do:
Nationalise the Power lines - we had to fix them after the bushfires anyway, so why continue to subsidise them without any economic return. We can then upgrade them to connect to the power stations that have already been built and those stations can run at 100% capacity.
Remove subsidies from Mining and Power stations.



Not required:
No need to subsidise green power, it’s already cheaper than the other options, we just need the power infrastructure to run it.


Combined this is net cash flow positive and achieves what all political parties should want. A free market in the energy sector, increased competition in the banking sector, lower costs for consumers (& most businesses) and a massive uptake in green technology.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Me too, Andrews is a disgrace, the most egocentric and overpaid politician in the western world but he's been O K of late.

Trump is the President of the US. From our point of view, he's been good. He's committed the US to Asia-Pacific engagement. We massively benefit from the Alliance. I don't trust Trump but I trust the Democrats even less. If I was a yank (like a lot of us, I have family there) I'd be looking at Aus and saying why not ? We get to have a low death rate because we can afford to drop our commercial and military guard, we have the US to guarantee our freedom.

Alliances are a two way street. What what each party brings to the table is always directly proportional to their size. The US benefits massively from having the intelligence gathering capabilities that are located at joint facilities at Pine Gap and Exmouth. Bases given the stategic outlook are only going to become more important to them in the coming years.

The US had been undertaking a strategic pivot towards Asia as a means of containing China long before Trump came to office. Like the notion that a US General complained to him that the Military was literally out of bullets when he came to office the idea that its all hsi doing is just another nonsense that he and his minions like to put about. Its been going on so long that in this country there has been a bi-partisan agreement to rotate as many as 2500 members of the Marine Rotational Force — Darwin, through the Army's Robertson Barracks since 2103. If you want a true indication of the currant administrations erratic relations with the Asia-Pacifis you only need to take a look at their relationship with two of its most important strategic partners when it comes to containing Chinese expansion, South Korea and Japan. In South Koreas case, not only is he demanding that they pay for a presence that is in as much of the interest of the US as it is of South Koreas but he chose to exclude them from his negotiations with the North. Negations that given the Nths continued strategic missile development hasn't done much to advance the issue beyond a nice photo op and a few supposed letters (that are conveniently never made public) between the two leaders. It certainly hasn't delivered him his much cherished Nobel Prize.

Whilst he is Commander in Chief, his erratic short sighted and purely transactional treatment of neighbouring countries that are vital to US interests does not bode well should we ever need them to guarantee our freedom. Whatever that means.

Can you expand on the bolded part? I have no idea what it even means.

 

[D Mitchell]

Umm if I understand your reply, you are saying there is no environmental crisis, that you don’t support the clean energy sector if they need some government funding, your solution is to dump a nuclear reactor in the Nullarbor....5. Work with farmers, schools and the community to work towards keeping the planets temperature down.

With the possible exception of major shareholders in your mining companies, including major Superannuation Funds, you can’t have it both ways, I doubt there’s a person on the planet would disagree with any of that. If it was that easy, though, it would have happened already. Your conversion from coal to renewable over 2 years is unrealistic, even in Australia, no matter how much R & D you encourage, it just isn’t going to happen. Even if the technology was already available, it isn’t, to overcome intermittent sun/wind, there are 24 coal powered electricity plants in Aus which produce 93 % of electricity, renewables produce the other 7 % (the figures are a little bit rubbery, I’ve seen 14 %, it depends on who you read). But even if was 50 %, can you imagine the disruption, let alone the cost and the consequences of insufficient and unreliable power to the economy ? You’ll be familiar with the Aus-produces-2%-what-about-China-India-US argument so no need to repeat. Whilst we are waiting for technology to catch up, if you want a cleaner alternative to coal, go nuclear. It’s much cleaner, prodiuces cheap energy, is reliable and is safe but you can cover your safety anxiety by plonking it at Marilinga.

There’s an environmental problem alright but whether it’s a crisis is debatable. The pitch has been queered by blokes like Flannery, remember the 2007 Australian of the Year who predicted islands disappearing, coastline changes etc by 2012 ? You probably accept that if the earth doesn’t cool by 1 degree by 20 whatever, Flanneryesque consequences will follow. The jury's still out.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

With the possible exception of major shareholders in your mining companies, including major Superannuation Funds, you can’t have it both ways, I doubt there’s a person on the planet would disagree with any of that. If it was that easy, though, it would have happened already. Your conversion from coal to renewable over 2 years is unrealistic, even in Australia, no matter how much R & D you encourage, it just isn’t going to happen. Even if the technology was already available, it isn’t, to overcome intermittent sun/wind, there are 24 coal powered electricity plants in Aus which produce 93 % of electricity, renewables produce the other 7 % (the figures are a little bit rubbery, I’ve seen 14 %, it depends on who you read). But even if was 50 %, can you imagine the disruption, let alone the cost and the consequences of insufficient and unreliable power to the economy ? You’ll be familiar with the Aus-produces-2%-what-about-China-India-US argument so no need to repeat. Whilst we are waiting for technology to catch up, if you want a cleaner alternative to coal, go nuclear. It’s much cleaner, prodiuces cheap energy, is reliable and is safe but you can cover your safety anxiety by plonking it at Marilinga.

There’s an environmental problem alright but whether it’s a crisis is debatable. The pitch has been queered by blokes like Flannery, remember the 2007 Australian of the Year who predicted islands disappearing, coastline changes etc by 2012 ? You probably accept that if the earth doesn’t cool by 1 degree by 20 whatever, Flanneryesque consequences will follow. The jury's still out.

The only thing missing from a transition to green electricity is political will, while the Government continues to be dictated to by the mining industry there is no political will. One of the first things Abbott did was defund the Clean energy corporation. Otheir countries like a Germany can do it, why can’t we?

The Government and America argue that if China and India are not doing there share why should we, apart from being childish it is another lie.

Globally, new solar power plants added almost 35% to new power generating capacity in 2017

For the 8th year now, solar power attracted the largest share of new investments in renewable energies, according to the new JRC PV status report 2018. The EUR140billion investments in solar energy globally accounted for almost 60 percent of all new renewable energy investments.

phys.org

This will bite us in the rear end, as this is the business of the future and we have missed the boat.
This is Germany’s approach, now remember they don’t have the sun or wind power capabilities that Australia does.

Germany Could Be a Model for How We’ll Get Power in the Future

The European nation’s energy revolution has made it a leader in replacing nukes and fossil fuels with wind and solar technology.

www.nationalgeographic.com

I would also add that Germany has moved away from nuclear after Fushima.

 

[dogwatch]

... Whilst we are waiting for technology to catch up, if you want a cleaner alternative to coal, go nuclear. It’s much cleaner, prodiuces cheap energy, is reliable and is safe but you can cover your safety anxiety by plonking it at Marilinga.

...

Maralinga is a symbol of our shortcomings not a solution. Apart from the morality and other practical issues, transmission costs from anywhere in Central Australia would be prohibitive and impractical. I read last week that Australian renewables can supply over 50% more energy than our reserves of coal, gas and nuclear combined. I haven't given it the once-over for authenticity but since it's come up I'll see if i can find it.

Meanwhile here's something to reflect on re Maralinga from the late Alistair Hulett. Now there was a leftie!
Two of the best opening lines of any song I've heard. For good measure he even tacks on a bit about the US alliance.

 

[D Mitchell]

...

Whilst he is Commander in Chief, his erratic short sighted and purely transactional treatment of neighbouring countries that are vital to US interests does not bode well should we ever need them to guarantee our freedom. Whatever that means.

Can you expand on the bolded part? I have no idea what it even means.

My compliments on your knowledge and analysis. Looks like it’s an area of interest to you. When Trump was elected, it looked to me as if he was going to take the US back to 1930s isolationism. Had the US gone isolationist, we’d be exposed. It didn’t, indeed, Trump led US seems to be be more interested in Asia-Pacific than Europe.

The Alliance safeguards us. If we had to go it alone, we wouldn’t be able to get away with a defence budget of under 2 % GDP. Without the Alliance, we’d have to drastically increase defence spending. There goes spending on other areas. Morrison can afford to finance the lockdown. If we had to spend up big on defence, he may not have been able to have been so generous.

I agree with you about his erraticism, though. In a funny way I think it works for us. His unpredictability makes any potential invader even more cautious.