Cousins doco - Did the saints let one slip?

[brayza]

Wow! That was a bit of an epic in the end wasn't it?

It's already late, but I have to wait for the electric blanket to warm up anyways and I can't get the 'Troubled times of Ben Cousins' doco out of my mind; so why not write something about it?

Obviously alot has already and will continue to be written about Benny Cousins and the drugs issues raised in this documentary... But I couldn't help but think about the Mike Sheahan rhetorical question right at the end:

"Would have the Saints got over the line in 09 with Ben on board the saints train?"

I tend to lean towards 'Yes".

Here are some of the reasons/justifications that brought me to this 'opinion':

- The Saints under Ross Lyon have alot of robotic type of players that play to the well written script. While this generally works well, you need a few players that can create that 'spark' when things are down or not going according to plan. ie That 'X' Factor in your midfield.

- Finals/Premiership experience: Cousins has played in several grand finals, including winning ones for WCE. His experience would have been invaluable both pre match and during certain stages of the game.

- You can't tag them all: While St.Kilda do already possess some very high quality midfielders, Cousins is yet another hard running/working player you as opposition coach would have to put time into. Geelong have one of the best taggers in the Pink Pig, but after that not alot of real quality defensive players. I think the likes of Nick Del Santo, Montanga and Hayes would have gotten off the leash for far longer periods than they did in the 09 GF.

- Another goalkicking option: I think Cousins could of easily snagged a couple of vital goals running through half forward flank or even resting in a pocket. Is a proven accurate shot under pressure in the big games. Unlike the likes of Milne and in that particular game - Synder.

- Passion and Intensity: As shown in the doco over the two nights - When Benny puts his mind to something he is a driven man! I dunno about you but he's the guy i would want in my corner in an AFL battle royale.

- The motivation for the 'party' and night out afterwards: Ok, this one is more tongue in cheek! It has to be the clincher tho right?
I mean, who would be better connected in AFL player circles when it comes to organizing the big celebration (read: Fix) and wild 'bender' after the big win?

So what do you footy fans and opinionated beings out there think?
Would Cuzz have derailed the saints 09 campaign before it got off the ground?

Would an already questionable St Kilda Culture only made things worse for Ben? Or would have he adversely affected the footy club?

Or what other club would you have liked to have seen him at?

regards,
Brayza

 

[mysainters]

I am going to approach this from the issue itself, rather than Ben as a footballer and his obvious on field benefits to the Saints.

After watching the doco, I think Ben Cousins being rejected by St Kilda at the final hurdle, and facing the very real prospect of not playing footy again were all important parts in his journey. Even to the point that he was the last pick in the draft, seems to have been quite symbolic to him.

Had he come to St Kilda when still in the mindset that it was just going to happen for him, can anyone be sure that two years of succesful football would of neccessarily played out at the Saints for Ben?

Not as black and white as it seems.

Oh, and who on earth is Synder?

 

[Arecsa]

Ben had the ability to single handedly drag a team over the line, no doubt in my mind they could have beaten Geelong that day with him in their team.

 

[James23]

Disagree. Cousins is a shadow of his former self. A good serviceable player, of which most teams are full of.

 

[kosifantutti]

.

Oh, and who on earth is Synder?

One of the Ella brothers?

 

[Power King]

I am going to approach this from the issue itself, rather than Ben as a footballer and his obvious on field benefits to the Saints.

After watching the doco, I think Ben Cousins being rejected by St Kilda at the final hurdle, and facing the very real prospect of not playing footy again were all important parts in his journey. Even to the point that he was the last pick in the draft, seems to have been quite symbolic to him.

Had he come to St Kilda when still in the mindset that it was just going to happen for him, can anyone be sure that two years of succesful football would of neccessarily played out at the Saints for Ben?

Not as black and white as it seems.

Oh, and who on earth is Synder?

I hope people don't skip over this post because it raises some very important considerations.

Would he have played as good in his first year back had he been granted entry into the AFL so easily? Getting rejected made him appreciate his last-minute opportunity incredibly more.

It's not as simple as asking the question, 'would having one more experienced star gotten st kilda over the line?

 

[TheLoris]

Cousins at St Kilda hooking up with Gardiner again would have been interesting. Good luck trying to keep both of them on the straight and narrow...

 

[WinmarToLockett]

They would have had more of a chance at a Premiership with Cousins in their corner than not. Ironic they passed on Cousins but picked up Andrew Lovett...

 

[Oakland Raider]

You reap what you sow.

Proud to be a Tiger fan.

 

[pacemaker]

Cousins at St Kilda hooking up with Gardiner again would have been interesting. Good luck trying to keep both of them on the straight and narrow...

They would have had more of a chance at a Premiership with Cousins in their corner than not. Ironic they passed on Cousins but picked up Andrew Lovett...

Very good points. Gardiner and Cousins together may have been an issue but that said both victorian clubs they would have been in contact regardless of what Victorian club they were at.

Obviously our culture and Stkilda felt that an alleged rapist isn't as bad as an alleged drug user. Ben was never caught as he said in the doco but publicly admitted to being a user.

 

[Rooface]

You reap what you sow.

Proud to be a Tiger fan.

Have the utmost respect for Richmond.

To think along these lines (ahem), North may have made the finals with a wise choice.

 

[Cousinsb]

Very good points. Gardiner and Cousins together may have been an issue but that said both victorian clubs they would have been in contact regardless of what Victorian club they were at.

Obviously our culture and Stkilda felt that an alleged rapist isn't as bad as an alleged drug user. Ben was never caught as he said in the doco but publicly admitted to being a user.

I still keep in contact with Michael and we remain close friends.

It blows me away that the response has been so polarising.

 

[Plugger35]

Very easy to say that had Cousins gone to St Kilda we would have won a flag but there are a lot of intangibles.

He was not the same player he was at West Coast in the last two seasons, he was serviceable rather than a matchwinner. He was also injury prone, don't forget he had that serious hamstring tear in Rd.1 last year and missed about 7 or 8 games. Playing finals football at an even more frenetic pace may have resulted in another hamstring tear and we would have been playing down a man.

There is also the off field distractions that he would have brought to the club which may have affected the rest of the playing group. Also the other players may have expected Cousins to be the saviour that would win them a premiership and not put in as much effort as they did last year.

I must admit I was hoping at the time we would recruit Cousins but I'm not convinced that he would have been the difference between winning a premiership or not, looking at what has transpired with him the past couple of years.

 

[pacemaker]

I still keep in contact with Michael and we remain close friends.

It blows me away that the response has been so polarising.

Yep that was my thought. Anyway all the best this weekend if you play of course.

 

[wedgetail]

Saints let one slip? Definately.

Collingwood would want to win it this year or they might well be asking some questions also.

...nothing like some Caro & Walls fuelled hysteria to spoil a perfectly straightforward decision. No club had anything to lose taking Cousins on and only Richmond had the balls to stand up to the wicked witch and the ****ker and take the opportunity. Seems to have worked a treat for all concerned, Cousins got what he needed and Richmond got a few years of the Cousins effect to turn things around.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I still keep in contact with Michael and we remain close friends.

It blows me away that the response has been so polarising.

I suppose that's people.

We are limited to our own frame of reference to form opinions and are often far removed from the truth of events.

All I can take from this, having had personal experience with drug addiction, is that it is an often misunderstood illness and that I hope he can succeed and draw strength from the apparent commitment and love his family has shown.

 

[Plugger35]

Obviously our culture and Stkilda felt that an alleged rapist isn't as bad as an alleged drug user. Ben was never caught as he said in the doco but publicly admitted to being a user.

Lovett wasn't an alleged rapist when St Kilda recruited him you dill. Easy to say in hindsight that we should have recruited Cousins and not Lovett but for all we knew Cousins could have gone off the rails again and Lovett may have turned his career around and been a success for us.

 

[TheLoris]

Very good points. Gardiner and Cousins together may have been an issue but that said both victorian clubs they would have been in contact regardless of what Victorian club they were at.

True, but playing for different teams they'd play on different days, sometimes in different cities, so they wouldn't be catching up as often. Given most footy players would have their benders on the weekend after a game, having them together would increase the risk and you've then got two players that could go off the rails. Big risk.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

Could well have been icing on the cake.

That said, He and the Tigers have been good for eachother in a strange sort of way.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I've often wondered if Cousins would have been better suited to a better side than Richmond. If a St Kilda or Collingwood had have picked him up I think we'd view his on field return as much more successful than it was.

 

[NQTIGER]

Very easy to say that had Cousins gone to St Kilda we would have won a flag but there are a lot of intangibles.

He was not the same player he was at West Coast in the last two seasons, he was serviceable rather than a matchwinner. He was also injury prone, don't forget he had that serious hamstring tear in Rd.1 last year and missed about 7 or 8 games. Playing finals football at an even more frenetic pace may have resulted in another hamstring tear and we would have been playing down a man.

There is also the off field distractions that he would have brought to the club which may have affected the rest of the playing group. Also the other players may have expected Cousins to be the saviour that would win them a premiership and not put in as much effort as they did last year.

I must admit I was hoping at the time we would recruit Cousins but I'm not convinced that he would have been the difference between winning a premiership or not, looking at what has transpired with him the past couple of years.

You are kidding...right? Off field distractions you are talking about St Kilda arent you?

St Kilda the club with no off field distractions......lol

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I am going to approach this from the issue itself, rather than Ben as a footballer and his obvious on field benefits to the Saints.

After watching the doco, I think Ben Cousins being rejected by St Kilda at the final hurdle, and facing the very real prospect of not playing footy again were all important parts in his journey. Even to the point that he was the last pick in the draft, seems to have been quite symbolic to him.

Had he come to St Kilda when still in the mindset that it was just going to happen for him, can anyone be sure that two years of succesful football would of neccessarily played out at the Saints for Ben?

Not as black and white as it seems.

Oh, and who on earth is Synder?

Good post.

Before the doco I firmly believed that the Saints would have won with him in the side. Now I don't.

Fit and healthy he would have but he mightn't have been as fit and healthy had the Saints picked him up.

 

[Beth]

I know its all would have, could have, should have, but this little black duck is VERY happy he didn't go to the Saints!

 

[Ricmel]

If he had come to Stkilda the player he would have replaced in the GF side was Luke Ball and many (not me) rated him in our best on the day.

Ben is not what he was in 2000 - 2006. He'd have played a role but I don't think he would have changed the result.

 

[cynical]

he came back as a mid tier player, the saints were right not to pick him, they had a premiership side and the risk was too high (dont need 1 player publicity when you are pushing for a flag)

richmond were right to pick him up, he would have been good at any of the bottom 8 sides, extra members + publicity + a midfield mentor, would be worth the risk

hope they keep him on as a midfield coach