Coventry Coleman Medal

[Frederlick]

You cant be serious mate, he played 98 games of consistent football and was cut down before his prime. People who played with and against him said he was the best ever. You are disrespecting the guy as a footballer which is definately not on, choose your words wisely if you dont want to be thought of as the biggest tool on bigfooty.

Disrespecting the guy as a footballer? A new crime that the Big Footy police and Essendon have invented. The biggest tool on Big Footy because I didn't buy someones BS about Coleman and the AFLs Joke Team of the Century? Well I guess suicide is an option. Get real.

 

[danzan22]

Wow those 4 paragraphs only produced 4 personnel insults and absolutely zero points to support your argument, oh sorry, you wrote the best in big letters. Your lack of evidence other than that "everyone who saw him play said he was the best" is staggering in the way in which it demonstrates absolutely nothing. I saw Gary Ablett play too and I will stack him against any forward anywhere, anytime, but I will guarantee there are those who don't. Injuries? What I'am supposed to ignore the fact that there are heaps of players that played longer, kicked more goals and were more consistent simply because it was a shame he was injured. Remember John Greening at Collingwood in the early 70's? 'Everyone' who ever saw him play said he was a gun but he was put in coma behind play and retired shortly thereafter, do you hear Collingwood fans making ridiculous claims that he would have been the greatest if we just pretend that he would always have been as good as when he was injured? If you are going to get on here don't be lazy and make personnel attacks, it just shows that thinking hard enough to write something decent is beyond you.

Did he dominate nearly every game he played and become a superstar of the game so early on, according to you he was just a gun. Hudson is the only person to average more than Coleman iirc by not much. Has anyone ever told you that "Coventry was the greatest FF ever they i have ever seen" besides collingwood fans.

It is a shame that we cant get footage of both of them playing, it would make it easier to judg but for now all we can go on is stats and on people who have seen them play and according to both stats and the people COLEMAN WAS BETTER

 

[Disrespect_16]

Wow those 4 paragraphs only produced 4 personnel insults and absolutely zero points to support your argument

And this was your reply to my post, where I

1) Questioned your logic

2) Demonstrated and gave an example of where you used a statistics to support your argument, despite previoulsy stating you had not.

3) Suggested that you yourself re-read the thread in its entirity.

4) Rebutted against your ludicrous claim that we don't have a decent history, by citing our 17 extra flags and 20-odd extra years of playing football.

Settle peatel, your the one who jumped in half sucked on this to get a cheap shot in on the Pies because you want our jumper and are pissed because the Blues pumped you tonight. Come back when you have something more to offer the debate than 'don't use stats' and 'peanut' one liners that was funny when I was a teenager, but really doesn't do it for me now. Not my fault you can't go to the Power site and talk about a win, go and kick your dog or something.

Pot, Kettle, Black?

PEANUT!!!

 

[jhgoat]

Nice attempt to be a smart arse, but what exactly IS named after a Collingwood player?

The Brownlow is named after a Geelong player; The Coleman medal and the Ron Evans medal (Rising Star) are named after Essendon players; The Norm Smith medal is named after a Melbourne player; The Michael Tuck medal and Leigh Matthews trophy are both named after Hawthorn players.

The Jock McHale medal is awarded to the winning premiership coach, but that's not really the same thing, as it's not the medal itself that carries the prestige - It's more of an afterthought.

Maybe players who play 300 games could be presented with a Gordon Coventry medal, considering that Nuts was also the first player to play 300 games.

so really you guys are sooking that you dont have a medal names after one of your own...WHO CARES? essendon are more powerfull anyway, collingwood are pretenders

 

[Frederlick]

Did he dominate nearly every game he played and become a superstar of the game so early on, according to you he was just a gun. Hudson is the only person to average more than Coleman iirc by not much. Has anyone ever told you that "Coventry was the greatest FF ever they i have ever seen" besides collingwood fans.

It is a shame that we cant get footage of both of them playing, it would make it easier to judg but for now all we can go on is stats and on people who have seen them play and according to both stats and the people COLEMAN WAS BETTER

According to the stats? You haven't even looked at em have you? If a foreigner who new nothing about the game saw the two players stats side by side they wouldn't look twice at Coleman. Coventry averaged only 1 goal per game less over more than 3 times as many games and led his teams goal kicking 16 years in a row and the AFLs for 6 years. As I keep having to say, Coventry actually delivered at Colemans level except he played in more games, won more grand finals and the equivelant of the Brownlow, so just because everyone who ever saw him play said he was the best still doesn't cut it as evidence.Coventrys record speaks for itself. But yes I agree, it would be awesome to see film footage of them, not to argue over, but just to see what were obviously great players in action.

 

[danzan22]

According to the stats? You haven't even looked at em have you? If a foreigner who new nothing about the game saw the two players stats side by side they wouldn't look twice at Coleman. Coventry averaged only 1 goal per game less over more than 3 times as many games and led his teams goal kicking 16 years in a row and the AFLs for 6 years. As I keep having to say, Coventry actually delivered at Colemans level except he played in more games, won more grand finals and the equivelant of the Brownlow, so just because everyone who ever saw him play said he was the best still doesn't cut it as evidence.Coventrys record speaks for itself. But yes I agree, it would be awesome to see film footage of them, not to argue over, but just to see what were obviously great players in action.

I'm pretty sure coleman did the same in goal kicking area and was involved in 2 premierships in his short career.

 

[Frederlick]

And this was your reply to my post, where I

1) Questioned your logic

2) Demonstrated and gave an example of where you used a statistics to support your argument, despite previoulsy stating you had not.

3) Suggested that you yourself re-read the thread in its entirity.

4) Rebutted against your ludicrous claim that we don't have a decent history, by citing our 17 extra flags and 20-odd extra years of playing football.



Pot, Kettle, Black?

PEANUT!!!

Bombergals brother I presume? What is this babble? I did this, I did that, well done Tiger you are the self proclaimed worlds greatest writer. Stick to the topic and don't meander off on some delusional ego trip about how great a post you have written.

 

[Frederlick]

I'm pretty sure coleman did the same amount in both areas or went close to it.

I'm afraid that he didn't. He played between 49 and 54 and did win the goal kicking in his first 2 years with huge bags. He did not play in 5 winning Grand Final Teams but 2 (49,50) as he was suspended in the 51 GF. He also coached 2 premierships in the 60's. Shame, as he was obviously all over anyone else at the time, still a,pretty good record of GF wins. Wikipedia has an informative article written by an Essendon supporter on him, worth a read. Read Coventry's too.

 

[danzan22]

I'm afraid that he didn't. He played between 49 and 54 and did win the goal kicking in his first 2 years with huge bags. He did not play in 5 winning Grand Final Teams but 2 (49,50) as he was suspended in the 51 GF. He also coached 2 premierships in the 60's. Shame, as he was obviously all over anyone else at the time, still a,pretty good record of GF wins. Wikipedia has an informative article written by an Essendon supporter on him, worth a read. Read Coventry's too.

Yep you're right on that one, was thinking we won the 52 gf

He won the goalkicking 5 times in his first 5 years.

 

[Dxmxgxd]

1st off. i neva started this thread arguing who was beta. its impossible to tell wot coleman could hav achieved if his career had not been cut short. Coleman and Coventry are easily the most "legendary" full forwards of the game, when looking bak at the 1900's era. My argument was that since Coventry had played well b4 Colemans time, is it not fair to say that the medal could quite easily hav been named afta Coventry, or for that matter been recognised under both names, like a lot of medals are?

Not just bcoz im a Pies supporter. just bcoz the stats stack up quite convincingly along side each of the players.

 

[Azzballz Deluxe]

1st off. i neva started this thread arguing who was beta. its impossible to tell wot coleman could hav achieved if his career had not been cut short. Coleman and Coventry are easily the most "legendary" full forwards of the game, when looking bak at the 1900's era. My argument was that since Coventry had played well b4 Colemans time, is it not fair to say that the medal could quite easily hav been named afta Coventry, or for that matter been recognised under both names, like a lot of medals are?

Not just bcoz im a Pies supporter. just bcoz the stats stack up quite convincingly along side each of the players.

Woulda shoulda coulda but didna

Like i said in an earlier post, maybe they could make a Coventry Medal for someone who kicks a thousand.

But then again, there's no Barassi Medal or Reynolds Medal or Thurgood Medal etc etc.

 

[Mattlowry]

Wow those 4 paragraphs only produced 4 personnel insults and absolutely zero points to support your argument, oh sorry, you wrote the best in big letters. Your lack of evidence other than that "everyone who saw him play said he was the best" is staggering in the way in which it demonstrates absolutely nothing. I saw Gary Ablett play too and I will stack him against any forward anywhere, anytime, but I will guarantee there are those who don't. Injuries? What I'am supposed to ignore the fact that there are heaps of players that played longer, kicked more goals and were more consistent simply because it was a shame he was injured. Remember John Greening at Collingwood in the early 70's? 'Everyone' who ever saw him play said he was a gun but he was put in coma behind play and retired shortly thereafter, do you hear Collingwood fans making ridiculous claims that he would have been the greatest if we just pretend that he would always have been as good as when he was injured? If you are going to get on here don't be lazy and make personnel attacks, it just shows that thinking hard enough to write something decent is beyond you.

My main issue with you is not that you think Coventry is better, although i still disagree with you, but as i said earlier its hard for us to say since neither of us saw either of them play so we can only go by what others say. Its that you're logic behind it is so flawed.

As i SUPPORTED (note the capital letters which you so kindly pointed out, its called emphasis by the way) my argument with earlier that the AFL named Coleman as FF in the team of the century. I'm pretty sure that committee wasn't all Essendon players and some of them probably saw him play too. You claimed it was only bombers supporters. Well looks like they had some reason too.

My disagreement wasn't with the fact that the Goal kicking medal is named after him, it was with the fact Bombers on here claimed he was the greatest forward ever

You can try and weasle out of that one by claiming you didnt say 'Only bombers', but it was clearly your intention.

I don't really need evidence to back up a claim that some of the full forwards you mentioned earlier are better than Coleman. Its one of those statements where nearly everyone reading this thread realises, 'wow what an idiot'. Yes that was a personal insult, and very much deserved one.

As for consistent how can you say 98 games at a level which at the time was teh highest GPG ratio ever is not consistent. Keep digging that hole mate.

 

[Dxmxgxd]

Coleman led Essendons goal kicking for 16 years, won a Brownlow (Champion of the Colony) played in 5 winning Grand Finals, kicked 9 goals in a GF and won the VFL goal kicking 6 times??? Don't bother answering that.

Frederlick. Coventry not Coleman Coleman played 6 seasons with the Dons.

 

[BigCat2]

Coleman the greatest FF ever from all reports. Doesn't matter that he played less games - 98 games is still a very decent career.

Frederlick, yYou rate him behind the likes of Lockett and Dunstall. By your thinking, Bradman only played 52 Tests, so he's rated behind 'greats' like Alec Stewart, Jacques Kallis, Mark Waugh in terms of total runs scored.

 

[Frederlick]

Frederlick. Coventry not Coleman Coleman played 6 seasons with the Dons.

No I meant Coleman, need to follow the posts, it was a point about what Coleman achieved, which pales in comparison to Coventry.

 

[Frederlick]

Coleman the greatest FF ever from all reports. Doesn't matter that he played less games - 98 games is still a very decent career.

Frederlick, yYou rate him behind the likes of Lockett and Dunstall. By your thinking, Bradman only played 52 Tests, so he's rated behind 'greats' like Alec Stewart, Jacques Kallis, Mark Waugh in terms of total runs scored.

Um Bigcat I don't think the cricket analogy thing really works buddy, as a test match lasts 5 days and a footy match 2 hours, also Bradman had his career interupted by a War and the fact that it took a month on a boat to go and actually play matches. But anyway what the hell. If we compare the number of games lets us say that Bradman played his 52 with his 99 average and then there was another player who had played 150 games and had a 90 average? (There isn't I Know, but for some reason everyone is using Bradman as some sort of statistical example for footy). Is the latter player a worse player because his average is driven down over time? I would say no, he is better because he has still played at an extremely high standard for 3 times as long as the player with the slightly higher average. However keep in mind that I don't buy this argument as other factors such as the nature of the games etc should be included. The whole average thing was brought up as some sort of point to show how good Coleman was. Ironically he hasn't even got the highest average so this is really going nowhere as an example of why Coleman should be considered the greatest.

 

[Frederlick]

Yep you're right on that one, was thinking we won the 52 gf

He won the goalkicking 5 times in his first 5 years.

Only player to kick 100 in his first year. Won the 49 GF with his 100th goal, and they reckon the only reason you never won 51 GF was because he was rubbed out, no wonder you lot rate him so high!

 

[Frederlick]

1st off. i neva started this thread arguing who was beta. its impossible to tell wot coleman could hav achieved if his career had not been cut short. Coleman and Coventry are easily the most "legendary" full forwards of the game, when looking bak at the 1900's era. My argument was that since Coventry had played well b4 Colemans time, is it not fair to say that the medal could quite easily hav been named afta Coventry, or for that matter been recognised under both names, like a lot of medals are?

Not just bcoz im a Pies supporter. just bcoz the stats stack up quite convincingly along side each of the players.

Yes I know you didn't start this thread as a who is best, but by the time there were six posts some Essendon twats had claimed greatest this, greatest that. Just because the Team of the Century was a joke doesn't mean they can get away with selling us a pup on here. I reckon they leave the Coleman as the Coleman, but I don't have to listen to unsubstansiated claims of who is the greatest forward on here. Good thread mate, has entertained us all night, and I learnt something about a player I had only heard of in passing.

 

[Frederlick]

My main issue with you is not that you think Coventry is better, although i still disagree with you, but as i said earlier its hard for us to say since neither of us saw either of them play so we can only go by what others say. Its that you're logic behind it is so flawed.

As i SUPPORTED (note the capital letters which you so kindly pointed out, its called emphasis by the way) my argument with earlier that the AFL named Coleman as FF in the team of the century. I'm pretty sure that committee wasn't all Essendon players and some of them probably saw him play too. You claimed it was only bombers supporters. Well looks like they had some reason too.



You can try and weasle out of that one by claiming you didnt say 'Only bombers', but it was clearly your intention.

I don't really need evidence to back up a claim that some of the full forwards you mentioned earlier are better than Coleman. Its one of those statements where nearly everyone reading this thread realises, 'wow what an idiot'. Yes that was a personal insult, and very much deserved one.

As for consistent how can you say 98 games at a level which at the time was teh highest GPG ratio ever is not consistent. Keep digging that hole mate.

If you check post #6 thru #9 you will see the Bombers I was refering to. Had nothing to do with the AFL Team of the Century. Weasel? I think your use of the disclaimer "at the time" is a huge weasel act, how many excuses do you need to justify your argument. So far I have heard, he was injured, Goals P Game, which is Hudsons now anyway, someone saw him play and told me and, the craziest one of all it is just like Bradman! Bradmans Test career was quite normal for the times he lived in, Colemans was quite short, no matter which way you rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic that is your point of view. And of course the "wow what an idiot", yeah it was silly of me to state that Lockett and Ablett were better forwards than Coleman IMO. Are you on crazy pills? You may not agree with me, but by the same token I'm tipping there are at least a few people out there who will probably agree that Ablett was, on pure skill, the greatest genius to ever pull on a pair of boots, so if your are going to keep claiming this idiocy thing at least find a point of view that doesn't make it look like you are inventing insults.

 

[tonxi]

98 games? what a pretender! Coventry played in something like 76 finals games alone, I'm sure Coventry wouldn't be too worried about not having it named after him, might as well leave it named after a pretender, fits in with most things the AFL do these days.

31 games actually.

I'm sure he won't mind, passing away in 1968 and all.

Coleman isn't revered for the number of games or goals but for the way he played the game.

 

[Lupton Warchild Pittman]

Coventry didn't make the TOC / have the medal named after him simply b/c he played for Collingwood.

His average might be lower than Coleman's, but he played in times that were lower scoring than the late 40's & early 50's.
He also played 3 x more games than Coleman. Obviously the more games you play, the harder it is to sustain a higher average.

He became the 1st player to play 300 games, to kick 100 goals, to kick 1000 plus goals, held a goalkicking record that stood for 70 plus years, played in 5 premierships, kicked the most amount of goals in finals and until Tuck broke his record, played in the most amount of finals games.

He also played 25 games for Victoria and kicked 100 goals, thus he's effectively kicked 1399 goals.

 

[Coin_Toss]

Coleman was named at full forward in the AFL Team of the Century. End of debate.

Pointless comment, to be honest.

If we're looking at achievements, Jock McHale should have been the coach in the AFL Team of the Century because he invented 'corridor' football and his record (to this day) is unbroken.

The AFL were biased.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

so really you guys are sooking that you dont have a medal names after one of your own...WHO CARES? essendon are more powerfull anyway, collingwood are pretenders

Are you one of those people who memorised the times-tables, but doesn't quite understand how they work?

Go back and read the post I was replying to - My point was that the peanut I quoted suggested that we wanted EVERYTHING named after Collingwood players, as though several things were ALREADY named after Collingwood players, which simply isn't the case.

Considering that Gordon Coventry kicked 1299 goals, which was the longest standing major individual record in the game until broken a few years ago, and was also the first player to play 300 games, which consquently made him the games leader for quite some time as well, it's not totally unreasonable to suggest that perhaps there could be something named after him.

 

[Frederlick]

Are you one of those people who memorised the times-tables, but doesn't quite understand how they work?

Go back and read the post I was replying to - My point was that the peanut I quoted suggested that we wanted EVERYTHING named after Collingwood players, as though several things were ALREADY named after Collingwood players, which simply isn't the case.

Considering that Gordon Coventry kicked 1299 goals, which was the longest standing major individual record in the game until broken a few years ago, and was also the first player to play 300 games, which consquently made him the games leader for quite some time as well, it's not totally unreasonable to suggest that perhaps there could be something named after him.

Don't bother mate, if it is Black and White it is bad, and I for one wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Frederlick]

31 games actually.

I'm sure he won't mind, passing away in 1968 and all.

Coleman isn't revered for the number of games or goals but for the way he played the game.

Sorry about the 76, I got a bit excited I think. Yes it would be suprising if Coventry were still alive, given it would make him about 110! Coventry must have played at least as well as Coleman given his average is only 1 goal a game less over 3 times more games, won the Brownlow equivelant too. Sounds like he played the game pretty bloody well for 16 years.