COVID-19 / Coronavirus

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Jeffrey Gibb said:
In your version of events, “losing everything” is a financial loss.

In the real world, “losing everything” is dying prematurely because our health system is not adequately prepared for the likely number of critical patients.

A failure to take pre-emptive action is therefore tantamount to what I would classify as a form of death by negligence – manslaughter, essentially.

I’m sure you disagree. But the firmness of your beliefs is symptomatic of a wider intellectual deterioration in society – a cultural dismissal of expertise and evidence, replaced by ill-informed, ill-considered feelings.

Of course, if a vaccine or a cure (which up until this point has not been considered likely within a 12-18 month timeframe) suddenly appears, you might feel justified in your views.

This should not be considered a personal attack. Your views are widely held. And the actions of those who dismiss the threat, and are ignoring advice are contributing to the unnecessarily fast, unseen and unrecorded spread of a novel and deadly virus.

In two weeks, when 50 people are dead, is that still acceptable? What about 500? What’s the threshold?

Should we find out? I don’t think so.
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A couple of points.

Dying of a virus in your 80s (whilst tragic) is hardly classified as dying prematurely. Someone dying of cancer in their 40s is dying prematurely. The difference is self evident.

And yes I would consider a complete and utter financial loss (loosing your job, your house, your savings) as loosing everything.

How did you think the people in the great depression felt when they were homeless and living in tent cities in New York and eating at Soup Kitchens? I guess by your definition they should have just been happy to be alive? Joyous even?

Of course we put a price on human life. Financial resources of any country are finite and in scenarios like this you can't save everyone so hard decisions have to be made in weighing up how much of a price we are willing to pay. That is just a reality. We don't live in a utopian paradise, this is the real world.
 
I just hope these leading medical minds dictating policy have a greater grasp of their science than the imbecilic central bankers and government economists of the world. These clowns have encouraged the debt fuelled investment in the sharemarket which is now crashing in front of our eyes.
 
Blackhawk42 said:
6 deaths in 2 months.

8 per day from suicide.


Not using this fact to tell you I think you are wrong. Please don't misinterpret. I'm posting it because it's my major concern in all of this. Currently I'm more horrified by the latter statistic.
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Yes. The mental state is the major concern. Most would shake this virus off. It's been reported like it's bloody Ebola.

That's why they're playing footy. People mentally need something right now. Or it could go downhill very quickly.
 

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Closing our borders now.
Just announced you won't be getting in if you're not a citizen, a resident or a close family member of.
Deadline is 9pm Friday
NZ doing it from midnight tonight.
 
Anyone concerned that we dont have enough people dying of the virus to justify the current measures: wait. Infection to confirmed diagnosis to treatment to potential death is a cycle and it takes time. As seen in China the infection rate and death rate can sometimes behave at odds with each other eg less people catching but more dying. As with normal flu it comes in waves.

The worst case scenario is something like the spanish flu. This graph is UK only. See relatively few fatalities in the first wave (0.5% death rate), then a second wave 5 months later with a 2.5% death rate (and still a third wave after that). That situation is totally possible given the fatality rate elsewhere, and the governments own pandemic advisors expect 20% of the population could contract the disease in just the first wave. Ill let you calculate 2.5% of 20% of AU population, but that’s what we’re struggling against and that’s why the footy might get cancelled.
 
Simon Crawshay said:
A couple of points.

Dying of a virus in your 80s (whilst tragic) is hardly classified as dying prematurely. Someone dying of cancer in their 40s is dying prematurely. The difference is self evident.

And yes I would consider a complete and utter financial loss (loosing your job, your house, your savings) as loosing everything.

How did you think the people in the great depression felt when they were homeless and living in tent cities in New York and eating at Soup Kitchens? I guess by your definition they should have just been happy to be alive? Joyous even?

Of course we put a price on human life. Financial resources of any country are finite and in scenarios like this you can't save everyone so hard decisions have to be made in weighing up how much of a price we are willing to pay. That is just a reality. We don't live in a utopian paradise, this is the real world.
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How do we know its not the restrictions keeping the numbers down not luck? oh so the numbers are low lets not have restrictions
 
Simon Crawshay said:
I am not being sarcastic at all.

So we close the schools, who will look after the kids of the farmers, doctors, nurses, delivery drivers, food manufacturers, garbage pick up drivers, etc, etc.

Do you get the elderly grandparents to look after them, that sure sounds like a great idea...... Plus a lot of the research I am reading is suggesting that not only do children not get covid-19 (usually) they also seem to be of minimal importance in spreading it.

It is so much easier to say "close the school" cause its a snappy catch phrase. I feel like many people coming out with phrases such as this have non essential white collar jobs (no disrespect have had jobs like that in the past) and don't actually comprehend the amount of effort and manpower it takes to keep a society ticking over.

You close the schools and you basically turn the economy off and watch the bloodshed that will entail. Suicides will skyrocket, lively hoods will be lost, families will be broken up. You want that on your conscience, I definetly do not.
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A couple of lazy assumptions made there.

Hate to break it to you but its gonna happen mate.

Piss and moan all you want about the economy, but closing schools must and will be done.

Everyone will suffer economically, but staying alive and flattening the curve is more important.

As for your comment about kids not getting CV, its wrong and dangerous. They get it, they just dont show symptoms and are still contagious .
 
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Simon Crawshay said:
Of course we put a price on human life. Financial resources of any country are finite and in scenarios like this you can't save everyone so hard decisions have to be made in weighing up how much of a price we are willing to pay. That is just a reality. We don't live in a utopian paradise, this is the real world.
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Jesus ****ing christ are you bojo?

What a horrible post. Its 2020 not 1940.

We need to be looking after the vulnerable, not the economy. Decent, responsible governance can recover from this without a depression. Whether wmthe lot we've got are able (or willing) to do that, granted, is unlikely though. Ill give you that.


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
Today's summary total from the Korean CDC (https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&bid=0030):

1584605183420.png

Some points to note:

1. Mortality rate has been 1%.
2. Mortality rate under 30 has been 0. Not a single death out of 2,867 cases.
3. Mortality rate from 30-49 has been 0.09%. Two deaths out of 2,044 cases.
4. Mortality rate from 50-59 has been 0.37%. Six deaths out of 1,615 cases.
5. Over 70 and especially over 80 it gets dangerous. And even for that demographic the data from China suggests that mortality is at 1/3 the that rate for patients not suffering complicating health problems (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/)

I think the panic merchants here who have been vigorously arguing for mortality rates as high as 6% have some serious introspection to do. Here and in the media. Complete irresponsibility.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Today's summary total from the Korean CDC (https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&bid=0030):

View attachment 842817

Some points to note:

1. Mortality rate has been 1%.
2. Mortality rate under 30 has been 0. Not a single death out of 2,867 cases.
3. Mortality rate from 30-49 has been 0.09%. Two deaths out of 2,044 cases.
4. Mortality rate from 50-59 has been 0.37%. Six deaths out of 1,615 cases.
5. Over 70 and especially over 80 it gets dangerous. And even for that demographic the data from China suggests that mortality is at 1/3 the that rate for patients not suffering complicating health problems (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/)

I think the panic merchants here who have been vigorously arguing for mortality rates as high as 6% have some serious introspection to do. Here and in the media. Complete irresponsibility.
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And your thoughts on the fact the government has just closed our borders for potentially 6 months or more?
 
Mr Meeseeks said:
A couple of lazy assumptions made there.

Hate to break it to you but its gonna happen mate.

Piss and moan all you want about the economy, but closing schools must and will be done.

Everyone will suffer economically, but staying alive and flattening the curve is more important.

As for your comment about kids not getting CV, its wrong and dangerous. They get it, they just dont show symptoms and are still contagious .
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Something that hasn't been talked about is, how that will also likely send crime rate through the roof, just what happens when people get desperate.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Today's summary total from the Korean CDC (https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&bid=0030):

View attachment 842817

Some points to note:

1. Mortality rate has been 1%.
2. Mortality rate under 30 has been 0. Not a single death out of 2,867 cases.
3. Mortality rate from 30-49 has been 0.09%. Two deaths out of 2,044 cases.
4. Mortality rate from 50-59 has been 0.37%. Six deaths out of 1,615 cases.
5. Over 70 and especially over 80 it gets dangerous. And even for that demographic the data from China suggests that mortality is at 1/3 the that rate for patients not suffering complicating health problems (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/)

I think the panic merchants here who have been vigorously arguing for mortality rates as high as 6% have some serious introspection to do. Here and in the media. Complete irresponsibility.
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It has a mortality rate higher than the flu and is more infectious than the flu and there are no established treatment apart from keep them breathing and hope they survive long enough to recover. Cherry picking one nation, which has a lot of resources to test and quarantine sick people and who has implemented several measures which you think are over the top, as somehow representative is ridiculous. We don’t have apps tracking people’s location which are used for tracing and to help people avoid crowds. We haven’t quarantined two cities. We don’t have the resources to conduct the same level of testing. We do have an excellent health system which is good at keeping people alive though so maybe some hope of us 🙄

What do you think happens if you saturate the hospitals with people with covid-19 victims? Won’t don’t you get about exponential growth and capacity constraints of hospitals?
 

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A lot of my clients now stopping face to face apps which is sensible .
Problem for us unless we phyically met them on site for our joint client , the joint client cant access NDIS funds .

Its a chink in the process that this has exposed , we will work around it somehow .
But it potentially may affect those most susceptable to covid , the disabled and already sick .
 
Carl Spackler said:
Today's summary total from the Korean CDC (https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&bid=0030):

View attachment 842817

Some points to note:

1. Mortality rate has been 1%.
2. Mortality rate under 30 has been 0. Not a single death out of 2,867 cases.
3. Mortality rate from 30-49 has been 0.09%. Two deaths out of 2,044 cases.
4. Mortality rate from 50-59 has been 0.37%. Six deaths out of 1,615 cases.
5. Over 70 and especially over 80 it gets dangerous. And even for that demographic the data from China suggests that mortality is at 1/3 the that rate for patients not suffering complicating health problems (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/)

I think the panic merchants here who have been vigorously arguing for mortality rates as high as 6% have some serious introspection to do. Here and in the media. Complete irresponsibility.
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Its a no win situation. At the end of the day it may be a massive over-reaction. Only an opinion but I think thats how history will view it.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Today's summary total from the Korean CDC (https://www.cdc.go.kr/board/board.es?mid=a30402000000&bid=0030):

View attachment 842817

Some points to note:

1. Mortality rate has been 1%.
2. Mortality rate under 30 has been 0. Not a single death out of 2,867 cases.
3. Mortality rate from 30-49 has been 0.09%. Two deaths out of 2,044 cases.
4. Mortality rate from 50-59 has been 0.37%. Six deaths out of 1,615 cases.
5. Over 70 and especially over 80 it gets dangerous. And even for that demographic the data from China suggests that mortality is at 1/3 the that rate for patients not suffering complicating health problems (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/)

I think the panic merchants here who have been vigorously arguing for mortality rates as high as 6% have some serious introspection to do. Here and in the media. Complete irresponsibility.
Click to expand...
Never let the facts get in the way of a good old fashioned PANIC!
 
If the health system here is overwhelmed people that would otherwise survive covid19 will die.
People that don't have covid19 will die when the treatment they need isn't available.
The damage to the economy we are already facing, the hoarding of medicine, people will die from this, suicide rates will go up.

People with severe symptoms that survive can have lifelong damage to their lungs and complications, they are now more susceptible death from future illness.

The damage is more than just the projected fatality rate.
 
Regarding Italy, let's see if the Australian media picks up this report from Italian media on an announcement today from the Italian Institute of Health. In a controlled study of 355 coronavirus deaths, only 12, or 3%, died who did not have underlying pathologies that could cause death. Half had 3 or more underlying pathologies and the sample averaged 2.7 pathologies per patient.

https://www.agenzianova.com/a/5e71d...-causa-del-covid-19-senza-patologie-pregresse

(quoted via Google Translate)

Rome, 17 March 21:53 - (Agenzia Nova) - 12 people died of coronaviruses who did not have previous pathologies such as to cause their death. This was clarified by the institute of health in the report on the characteristics of the deaths of coronavirus patients. This figure was obtained on 355 files, compared to the total of 2,003 received: 17.7 percent of the overall sample. The average number of pathologies observed in this population is 2.7. Overall, 12 patients, equal to 3.4 percent of the sample, had 0 pathologies; 84 victims, 23.7 percent, had 1 disease; 90 had 2 pathologies, 25.4 percent; and 169, equal to 47.6 percent, had 3 or more pathologies. (Rin)
© Agenzia Nova - Reproduction reserved
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Carl Spackler said:
Regarding Italy, let's see if the Australian media picks up this report from Italian media on an announcement today from the Italian Institute of Health. In a controlled study of 355 coronavirus deaths, only 12, or 3%, died who did not have underlying pathologies that could cause death. Half had 3 or more underlying pathologies and the sample averaged 2.7 pathologies per patient.

https://www.agenzianova.com/a/5e71d...-causa-del-covid-19-senza-patologie-pregresse

(quoted via Google Translate)
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What's your point?
 
Carl Spackler said:
Regarding Italy, let's see if the Australian media picks up this report from Italian media on an announcement today from the Italian Institute of Health. In a controlled study of 355 coronavirus deaths, only 12, or 3%, died who did not have underlying pathologies that could cause death. Half had 3 or more underlying pathologies and the sample averaged 2.7 pathologies per patient.

https://www.agenzianova.com/a/5e71d...-causa-del-covid-19-senza-patologie-pregresse

(quoted via Google Translate)
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I wonder if you read about how the Italian army had to move bodies of the dead out of Bergamo by truck convoy?

7803746F-0A5E-4609-B16F-6114206B425E.png

www.google.com.au

Coronavirus: Italian army called in as crematorium struggles to cope with deaths

At least 93 people have died after testing positive for coronavirus in the north Italian city.
www.google.com.au www.google.com.au
 
I'm living in Italy......some of the responses in here remind me of myself 2.5 weeks ago.

For those of you with little concern you have no idea what's coming for you if this gets a hold like it has here.
As for the lockout, we've seen numbers climb only because of the fact it's now easier to find and track because of the lockdown. It hasn't even hit it's peak yet.
 
dipper86 said:
I'm living in Italy......some of the responses in here remind me of myself 2.5 weeks ago.

For those of you with little concern you have no idea what's coming for you if this gets a hold like it has here.
As for the lockout, we've seen numbers climb only because of the fact it's now easier to find and track because of the lockdown. It hasn't even hit it's peak yet.
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Keep safe mate.
 

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