Opinion COVID19 - To Vacc or Not to Vacc

[woosha24]

Virtue signalling that im off to get my second jab tomorrow #blessed

 

[JackOutback]

come on guys can't we all just get along.

I come on here to get some updates and interesting info on BOTH sides of the CONVERSATION.

I will sometimes post my opinion on something or an article I have read that seemed interesting and factual. Sometimes a reply will come back against it and I take it on board and decide which side i believe on any particular subject. Sometimes what I had believed was proven wrong and I accept it and move on.
Sometimes there is a little too and froing with no real definitive correct answer one way or the other.

It is meant to be an open forum for us to converse in at least a semi-decent/friendly manner but it seems when the post swing too far one way or the other we see some unnecessary abuse and personal attacks and the thread seems to take on a bit of a immature high school feel about it.

Oh and by the way it isn't Illuminati it is Luciferianism

Both sides of the argument are not always equal; just as, when talking about travelling the globe, I don't feel obliged to get an opinion from a flat earther.

There are legitimate conversations to be had about lockdowns, the support offered, vaccine rollout etc. But if the argument is vaccines are a conspiracy to control the populace and we should all be taking horse dewormer instead, well, that doesn't warrant equal coverage.

 

[Goldfish]

Both sides of the argument are not always equal; just as, when talking about travelling the globe, I don't feel obliged to get an opinion from a flat earther.

There are legitimate conversations to be had about lockdowns, the support offered, vaccine rollout etc. But if the argument is vaccines are a conspiracy to control the populace and we should all be taking horse dewormer instead, well, that doesn't warrant equal coverage.

Re: the horse dewormer above, I assume you mean ivermectin? The drug that's been curing blindness in the African Savannah for many years and won a Nobel Prize in 2015?

I'm not advocating to take it for COVID, but to just pass it off as a 'horse dewormer' is a little facetious...

 

[kane249]

Re: the horse dewormer above, I assume you mean ivermectin? The drug that's been curing blindness in the African Savannah for many years and won a Nobel Prize in 2015?

I'm not advocating to take it for COVID, but to just pass it off as a 'horse dewormer' is a little facetious...

African River Blindness is also caused by a parasitic worm and spread by black fly bites. It's why a drug that is a dewormer is effective on it.

The claims that it's working on COVID, something which is viral in nature and not parasite related, is why medical experts are skeptical about it's benefits.

 

[Goldfish]

African River Blindness is also caused by a parasitic worm and spread by black fly bites. It's why a drug that is a dewormer is effective on it.

The claims that it's working on COVID, something which is viral in nature and not parasite related, is why medical experts are skeptical about it's benefits.

Yeah, that's totally fine and I agree.

I do however find it amusing that a Nobel Prize winning drug is boiled down to just being used for horses when it has a long running track record of successful human use. Is 'human' ivermectin and 'animal' ivermectin the same thing? You'd assume so, maybe a different quality/grade?

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Please stop telling me that I should not use a water bombing helicopter to bathe my newborn, when it is public knowledge that water bombing helicopters have been one of the most successful methods of combatting bushfires.

 

[Goldfish]

Please stop telling me that I should not use a water bombing helicopter to bathe my newborn, when it is public knowledge that water bombing helicopters have been one of the most successful methods of combatting bushfires.

(If that was in my direction I did explicitly state I wasn't advocating taking it for COVID)

 

[flyinghi64]

What Is Ivermectin?

Learn more about the drug ivermectin, including the conditions it treats, what side effects it may have, and whether it’s approved to treat COVID-19.

www.webmd.com

Just read the first paragraph for those that refer to a human drug as that Vet drug, Horse dewormer etc.

Just like when the media want to show and talk about it they show pictures of the Horse paste.

If you want to use the Veterinarian drug that is SAFE ONLY FOR ANIMALS then you are a bloody idiot and deserve what comes your way.
If on the other hand you have been prescribed the human type by a doctor then it shouldn't be said you are taking horse drugs.

Hope that clears up a little confusion that seems to be around this drug.

 

[kane249]

Yeah, that's totally fine and I agree.

I do however find it amusing that a Nobel Prize winning drug is boiled down to just being used for horses when it has a long running track record of successful human use. Is 'human' ivermectin and 'animal' ivermectin the same thing? You'd assume so, maybe a different quality/grade?

Horse dewormer is a put down for it, but when you consider it's intended use is for parasites, having it trotted out a miracle cure for something viral makes it sound too good to be true.

The sceptic in me does wonder if some of this a placebo effect for those have a natural distrust of authority and vaccines in the first place. Time will tell once more data is revealed on it, but for now something doesn't add up for mine.

 

[JackOutback]

Re: the horse dewormer above, I assume you mean ivermectin? The drug that's been curing blindness in the African Savannah for many years and won a Nobel Prize in 2015?

I'm not advocating to take it for COVID, but to just pass it off as a 'horse dewormer' is a little facetious...

Now, now, it wasn't a little facetious, it was very facetious.

But I shall refer to it as a dewormer from now on and drop the horse.

It does beggar belief that people can be so beholden to ideology that they will take drugs that even the manufacturer doesn't recommend because one of their teammates suggested it.

 

[MrWoollie]

I'm still pissed off I didn't get a juice or a lollipop after my second shot, just a greatly reduced chance of ending up in hospital and passing my illness on to others.

Ripped off.

Wait you had the choice of lollipops? All I got offered was OJ and water

All I got was an insatiable desire to buy products endorsed by Bill Gates. And that weird feeling you get when you know you're being watched.

 

[MrWoollie]

Yeah, that's totally fine and I agree.

I do however find it amusing that a Nobel Prize winning drug is boiled down to just being used for horses when it has a long running track record of successful human use. Is 'human' ivermectin and 'animal' ivermectin the same thing? You'd assume so, maybe a different quality/grade?

Often the difference between animal and human drugs are in the manufacturing facility being rated to a a less vigorous ISO standard. I'm sure maintaining a higher, regularly checked and audited human level lab is far more expensive than the animal production facility. Chances are the animal drug would be perfectly ok to take.

I'm also sure that some companies that produce both animal and human versions do so out of the same facility and just pack them in different boxes.

Edit - And as Daz has pointed out, sometimes they are different in ingredients or concentration. A horse dose of antibiotic will either be huge or more concentrated etc.

Spoke to family member who was very high in the worlds largest standards company and he said that each case would be different. It's largely what suits the company in question and what is most cost effective/profitable.

 

[Dazzler9]

Ivermectin Products for Animals Are Different from Ivermectin Products for People

For one thing, animal drugs are often highly concentrated because they are used for large animals like horses and cows, which weigh a lot more than we do—a ton or more. Such high doses can be highly toxic in humans. Moreover, the FDA reviews drugs not just for safety and effectiveness of the active ingredients, but also for the inactive ingredients. Many inactive ingredients found in products for animals aren’t evaluated for use in people. Or they are included in much greater quantity than those used in people. In some cases, we don’t know how those inactive ingredients will affect how ivermectin is absorbed in the human body.

 

[Godfather32]

Virtue signalling that im off to get my second jab tomorrow #blessed

I'm on the hunt for my third jab just so I can have an excuse to get another double quarter pounder meal

 

[Benji85]

For those who are hesitant, I implore you to read and take in my experiences from intensive study into both Covid and Covid patients and interviewing consultants and respiratory physicians from across the OECD, plus path work. As someone who's researched Covid and it's pathologies heavily for 18 odd months, and worked with both the WA and Federal Government, I can categorically say that the more serious Covid-19 symptoms are about as torturous as anything I've researched in my ~15 years working in clinical research and I have seen some shit lemme tell ya.

A lot of us know about Covid symptoms already, but truth a lot of us don't really understand the entire 'Covid journey' you go on if shit goes pear shaped for you. That's where things become confronting (as if fighting for your life wasn't already confronting enough...). It sounds a little dramatic sure, but it highlights that the virus isn't the only thing you need to be mindful of if you want to remain unvaccinated. Sorry for the prickish nature of it, I've had a few so bear with me

So if you have to go to hospital with Covid you will seeing a constant stream of faceless (i.e wearing masks) doctors and nurses, you're family is worried but can't get into to see you and you are virtually alone in a hyper-sterile environment tuned solely to the provision of medical services and that's it. There with your thoughts all day, all night, rasping on oxygen, with machines whirring and beeping at the end of your bed, or someone else's. The part of the hospital you will be placed in will not be a place of joy. This is the part where you go '**** it's good being an Australian in September 2021' because you can probably still get a bed in a hospital in any state in Australia atm. If things become tight you might be shunted out into a hallway. If it gets worse? you'll be plopped into a wheel chair. Hope you can sleep sitting upright. By now, you feel like absolute dogshit, you're tired, very 'flu-y', you can't taste anything, but that doesn't matter because you're always nauseous anyway. You've only been a few days on the ward but you're already an emotional wreck, you're starting to drift off between breaths, but you're not sleeping. The dry cough is driving you nuts, and it feels like someone is legit sitting on your chest, you just cannot seem to 'puff' it out. It feels like it only inflates halfway and no matter how hard you try, it won't go out any further. Why are there more nurses looking at your charts than usual? well at this point your oxygen levels have dropped a little too much for comfort. You tell a nurse that you feel like you are 'drowning'. You're now (quickly) off to the ICU. This is your Grand Final.

ICU takes you, the consultant might introduce themselves but you won't really remember their name because by now you're so exhausted that your whole body is like a dead weight. You're sore all over and your intercostal muscles are so fatigued and strained that every 'breath' is accompanied by sudden, sharp rib pain. You've been so tense and stressed that just about everything aches really. You just want to sleep so badly, but you're afraid of sleeping. In fact fear is now your dominant emotion as your breathing becomes more laboured and your entire system starts to get over-stressed. Your bed sheets are soaked with sweat as though you've run a marathon, even though your feet haven't touch a solid surface in days. This exertion means you are now too tired to relieve yourself, much less sit up in bed. The small amounts of morphine you've been given for your respiratory distress aren't having the desired effect. Shattered beyond what you thought possible, your body still forces you into ever faster hyperventilation, as your brain is now dangerously starved of oxygen. Every breath from this point forward is a product of your body's furious will to survive. Every thought is now attuned to the next breath, and to survive the next 30 seconds, playing on a loop. At this point without medical intervention, you will die (and die soon). Time for the next (and worst) step of all: intubation. (DNR orders/you've all heard of those kinda mythical DO NOT RESUCITATE tattoos? this is the part where they would probs come in handy...).

The consultant physician is now telling you that you are about to be intubated, but thank God for modern medicine aye? because with FLW's help you've only got a 40% chance of dying (luckily it's Sept 2021 and not June 2020 where that number was up around the 90% mark). Hospital staff will bring you a webcam if they can and you are able, as this is likely to be the last time your loved ones will hear your voice. You're about to go under and you hope the last thing you'll ever see won't be the fluorescent lights of an ER ceiling and some JMO's masked-face. Worst part about intubation? It's incredibly invasive, by absolute necessity your dignity goes out the window. Yeah you get a plastic tube push down your throat, but you're also hook up to a catheter, rectal tube and feeding tube. Things can go south in moments from here with strokes, infections, ventilator lung damage, edema and pneumothorax all a few of things that can cause you to go paws up. Not to mention potential brain damage from hippocampus apoptosis. Pretty grim BUT you can still live from here, survival is still on your side due to Australian Doctors and Nurses achieving some of the best Covid outcomes in the world! I use the word live...but maybe I should use the word exist instead because if you survive ventilation....well this sure ain't livin' Barry.

. "Oh you're finally awake.gif". Aye look at you big dawg, you made it. You survived. haha yeah flipping nerds, knew I'd pull through lmao. But hold on, what do you mean I've only got a years worth of rehab plus a high chance of suffering from severe psychological trauma in the form of PTSD, not to mention major weakness and muscle atrophy? And you're also telling me that now that I kicked Covid to the curb I'm MORE prone to microbial infection and have a high chance of still dying within a year than someone who was never ventilated?? I didn't know this!!

Oh and the risk of a lifetime of impaired regenerative capacity? Wtf is this new hell brus???

Well Covid is a real prick you see, it doesn't just clog up your lungs and root your immune system, it's also been proven to affect things we call 'AT2 cells' (especially in men, can I get a 'yeah the boys!?'). Hence, when someone calls Covid 'just a cold' you can slap them in the chops. These cells serve as stem cells for repairing alveolar gas-exchanging epithelium and Covid stops them dead in their tracks. No stems cells after only a few weeks of Covid ravaging yo lungs? Welcome to irreversibly scarred lungs. You're now classified as a medically vulnerable person. For life. Congrats! Now you have to go everywhere with a mask, for life! I mean that is if you manage to build up enough muscle to wheel your oxygen tank to the mailbox and back.

Now the above is ridiculously simplified but If you got the vaccine (either one currently available), you would have been even less likely to walk through the hospital doors in the first place, and much of that suffering for you and your family and friends would not come to pass. So at the same time the ECMO machine is dialysing your blood, you could be at home shit posting on bigfooty, hugging your dog or eating an orange. Anything is possible when you're not dead!

Please consider getting the jab if you are able to.

 

[WCErevival]

I think at this point the people that aren't going to get it are set in their opinion and wont change.

 

[Footfalcon]

I think at this point the people that aren't going to get it are set in their opinion and wont change.

You’re either on the news frequency of taking the download with every update, constructing your reality from it and regurgitating the narrative or you’re critically thinking outside the book ends that they provide you with and discerning the information you experience to the information they tell you, you experience.

Even with the “science” facts it’s a 2/10 asymptomatic virus that in over ruling majority only effects the severely elderly or health compromised.

 

[Lolbert]

You’re either on the news frequency of taking the download with every update, constructing your reality from it and regurgitating the narrative or you’re critically thinking outside the book ends that they provide you with and discerning the information you experience to the information they tell you, you experience.

Even with the “science” facts it’s a 2/10 asymptomatic virus that in over ruling majority only effects the severely elderly or health compromised.

Im not sure where you get your science facts from, but nevertheless…. A virus that only affected the elderly or health compromised. How should what we are doing change. I despise this ‘won’t affect me so why should I…” attitude. We live in a giant community. The only reason we have order, wealth and security is because we agree to look after those that are most vulnerable. I’m stunned at the selfishness and heartlessness of people during this pandemic.

 

[bUCKET__]

You’re either on the news frequency of taking the download with every update, constructing your reality from it and regurgitating the narrative or you’re critically thinking outside the book ends that they provide you with and discerning the information you experience to the information they tell you, you experience.

Even with the “science” facts it’s a 2/10 asymptomatic virus that in over ruling majority only effects the severely elderly or health compromised.

Teach us your ways, o critical thinking outlier! How have you escaped the all-encompassing programming that the rest of us have been thus far contained unto? By what methods did you crawl from the shackled cave? How come there are others who claim to escaped, yet are clearly still captivated by the (((narrative)))? How did you as a rugged individual free thinker escape from the dream within a dream? Please teach us, o venerable one!

 

[Footfalcon]

Teach us your ways, o critical thinking outlier! How have you escaped the all-encompassing programming that the rest of us have been thus far contained unto? By what methods did you crawl from the shackled cave? How come there are others who claim to escaped, yet are clearly still captivated by the (((narrative)))? How did you as a rugged individual free thinker escape from the dream within a dream? Please teach us, o venerable one!

After the same level of sarcasm post that I was told to tone down I’m expecting the same standards to be held by the moderator here

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

After the same level of sarcasm post that I was told to tone down I’m expecting the same standards to be held by the moderator here

Why should we expect moderators to waste valuable resources protecting the weakest and most vulnerable posters?

 

[Footfalcon]

“The unvaccinated are putting everyone’s life at risk and should be down graded to second class citizens like the Africans in America in the 1940s”

 

[Barrybran]

View attachment 1235244

“The unvaccinated are putting everyone’s life at risk and should be down graded to second class citizens like the Africans in America in the 1940s”

The best analogy I've seen to this stuff recently is the drink driving example. The vast majority of people will get in their cars, drive around and be completely fine. But it only take one dickhead to get behind the wheel drunk to completely upend multiple people's lives. It's not about making "second class citizens" of unvaccinated people. It's about community. Giving everyone a chance. Unfortunately, as Lolbert highlighted above, Covid has shone a very bright light on those who's only priority is self-interest.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

The best analogy I've seen to this stuff recently is the drink driving example. The vast majority of people will get in their cars, drive around and be completely fine. But it only take one dickhead to get behind the wheel drunk to completely upend multiple people's lives. It's not about making "second class citizens" of unvaccinated people. It's about community. Giving everyone a chance. Unfortunately, as Lolbert highlighted above, Covid has shone a very bright light on those who's only priority is self-interest.

It seems like it’s coming down to a choice between prioritizing the interests of the elderly and vulnerable, or the interests of the ignorant and selfish.

Tough choice.

 

[kane249]

Why seeking jab exemption doomed to fail

People who are hesitant to get vaccinated against coronavirus have been turning up to general practitioners demanding medical exemption certificates to avoid the jab.

www.news.com.au

People are already hitting up their GP looking for medical exemptions for the vaccine, but the criteria to get an exemption is limited