I wouldn't have stepped aside. Poor bastard has been pressured into breaking point by the media. As much as I thought Thorpe shouldn't have been disqualified, Stevens deserved it.
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Craig Stevens: I'll step aside
- Thread starter RoosLuver
- Start date
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Hahaha. BS - it was a wrong decision because he qualified for that event already legit. And he gave it up, why? Forget Ian Thorpe, he was disqualified in that event. Why did Stevens even bother qualifying in the first place?
What if you were in his position, that you actually made it? Even Thorpe himself said that he should continue. Stevens, made it - Thorpe didn't (due to an unlucky event - but rules are rules, why is he the exception). That tells me he made a BAD decision - he qualified fair and square, and gave his position to someone who shouldn't even be there because he broke a rule everyone should follow.
Craig Stevens - weak as ****. He won his place in Athens in a legit manner, but gave it up. It doesn't matter how good Thrope is, it's the principle of the situation! Thorpe ****ed up and shouldn't be there. He broke the rules, Stevens swam a good race and didn't break any rules. By that proviso Stevens made a bad decision.
Media scruinty? Pfft. What drugs are you on? A lot of sports journos are now saying how weak he is... and that he should've said NO to Ian. He's under more scrunity after his decision now.
jim boy
Umpires Association Head
- Admin
- #29
Because then we would only have a team of about 3 or 4 people of whom we can be so confident about their ability, that they are definite medal chances.
Olympic selection isn't, well shouldn't be, just some sort of prize for doing well in one race, it's about recognition that you are truly world class and have the ability to go and show the world what Australians are capabale of.
The qualifying swim meet is a fantastic aid to help determine who are Australia's best, but it is nothing more than that, an aid. An aid for the selectors to choose the best team. Ultimately the aim is to send the BEST Australian team to Athens, not just a lucky punter who really wasn't good enough but got a guernsey because the world champion fell in the pool.
- Banned
- #30
hmm did others not qualify fairly? Stevens earnt the right to swim the 400m, thorpe didn't, they all knew the rules before hand, its time thorpe lived with it, and chose not to swim! again why does thorpe automatically get the spot? he didn't finish the race, whereas their was others that did
so who ever wins gold in any one race hasn't truely won it then?
if it is just an aid then why did thorpe even bother swimming? seems real pointless, i mean he could have got injuried, seems really stupid to make him qualify then. Whether stevens was lucky or not, is another question, but thorpe does not deserve to swim the 400, he didn't even finish the race. Their is no way in knowing whether thorpe would have won that race ... most likely yes, but if he doesn't, i guess it means it has to be re-run untill he qualifies, seems stupid and pointless to me.
DIG
Brownlow Medallist
Did you not watch him on tv tonight?? The official reason he gave it up was because he never expected to qualify for it in the first place after Hackett and Thorpe and did not want to go into the games with a heavy schedule having already qualified for 1500 and relay.
Well, that's pretty much what he said anyway. The look on his face said he was relieved the weight was finally off his shoulders and he can move on now and put this behind him.
I do agree with you that now he's given it up - why did he even bother to qualify? Guess he never thought this'd happen.
Don't be reeling out that old argument "rules are rules". By doing so, you're just endorsing the current flawed qualification system. I agree with Jim Boy's thoughts on this.
And more scrutiny now that he's given it up - my butt. For a while there would be, but it will die off. But if he was swimming in it, he's filling the shoes of our greatest ever swimmer in his pet event. Everyone's eyes will be on him. He fails to qualify for the final, Hackett wins gold but it's kind of hollow because he hasn't defeated Thorpe in the pool to do it, his country misses out on a silver medal (assuming Thorpe and Hackett would've gone 1-2), and while Stevens could keep telling himself no - "rules are rules" and he earned his spot "fair and square", he KNOWS that he only got there cos the world champ fell in the pool, and can't look himself in the mirror and honestly believe it when he says - "i am one of the best two 400m swimmers in Australia"
Why deal with that? What can he gain from swimming in this event?
No - IMO he made the right decision - for himself and his swimming team. And nothing anyone says about it is going to change his mind now - i'm just happy Thorpe's back in the 400m
. You can get as angry about it as you like
jim boy
Umpires Association Head
- Admin
- #32
The qualifiers are not part of the olympic competition, you don't get any prizes, it simply an aid for selectors. Nobody earns the right to anything in this meet no matter where you finish other than to be assessed by the slectors as to whther they shoul be included in the olympic team.
They don't give out golds in this meet, that isn't why you swim in this meet.
Yes most likely he would have won it, and do you know why? because he is the best in Australia. And do you know what the purpose of the meet was? To send the best team to Athens.
So why should he compete when he gets a guernsey anyway? Because he should be able to demonstrate that he is the best. He didn't get that opportunity because of a technicality or bad luck. Sure the same thing will get him disqualified in real competition, but this isn't a real competition. Thorpe is no borderline swimmer.
At the end of the day, the trials are only that, a trial. Unless you really want to dispute that Thorpe isn't good enough to be on the team bus, regardless of where he finished in the trials, then he should be on the team bus. Certainly no other nation would be so silly as to leave their best swimmer at home.
I can't believe the fuss. The qualifiers are only there to assist in picking the best team for the events. Obviously due to a technicality this was not the case with the 400m. Of course they should have just let Thorpe swim anyway at the time. But, the best team is obviously going now and that's all that matters.
- Banned
- #34
well i didn't know that, i thought they were qualify meets.
I think you missed my point on this, you said that :
Olympic selection isn't, well shouldn't be, just some sort of prize for doing well in one race
i was making a point that what about in the finals, sure they may have to swim like 3 races to get to the final, but hey the best swimmer could get disqualified either during the final or before, does that mean he should be given the gold?
Then the event should not be branded as a olympic qualifying meet, well that was my initial interpretation
the official name was:
2004 Telstra Olympic Team Swimming Trials*
Ok, not sure if i can add anything to my defence at this time
The meaning of the word trial please see point 6. We could argue point 6.
- Banned
- #35
other then ratings what is the point of this event then? what is the point of anyone else even trying to qualify then? what is the point of thorpe and hackett swimming then. This is a disgrace, if swim. aus really wanted their best they would have changed the rules to that effect e.g. allowing say 3 false start, keep re-running the event untill they final get who they want to win, win etc
PJK
Debutant
Back to the Brisbane scenario. A better analogy would be training on thursday night before the grand final. M. Voss gets outmarked once by Joe Bloggs because he slips over, and because Leigh Matthews has a totally whacked selection policy that says whoever takes the next mark is in, Voss sits out the Grand Final.
The idea was to SELECT a TEAM, the best team.
Craig Stevens made the only decision possible. and all praise to him.
Would anyone really like to get swum out in the heats while your good mate ,the world record holder and more than likely winner was sitting in the stand. I for one wouldn't do that to my friend.
I love my country too much to selfishly compete in an event that I would lose when a team mate could win for us all.
Good on Craig Stevens.
Go Thorpie, Grant Hackett and all who proudly wear the Green and Gold.
The idea was to SELECT a TEAM, the best team.
Craig Stevens made the only decision possible. and all praise to him.
Would anyone really like to get swum out in the heats while your good mate ,the world record holder and more than likely winner was sitting in the stand. I for one wouldn't do that to my friend.
I love my country too much to selfishly compete in an event that I would lose when a team mate could win for us all.
Good on Craig Stevens.
Go Thorpie, Grant Hackett and all who proudly wear the Green and Gold.
- Banned
- #37
i think mine is better and more on the mark
no arguements then why hold this event?
nope, all he did was waste everyones time
do you know for a fact they are good mates? anyway if thorpe was such a good mate, he should be telling stevens either you go and compete, or you drop out and i don't take your spot.
or thorpe could be a graces loser and accept the rules maybe harsh, but move on. Do you have any proof that thorpe will win? he maybe the fav. but then what is the point of even holding the 400m then, they may as well just give him the gold then.
PJK
Debutant
Do I know they are good mates?
Yes, I know his mother.
Do I know for sure that Thorpe will win? No
Do I know that Craig Stevens wouldn't make the final? Yes
Then why have the selection event ? beats me, I don't run swimming, didn't ban Dawn Fraser when she was a chance to win a 4th gold medal in the 100 metres. etc etc
Could Thorpe be a gracious loser? Seemed to me that he was as he said all the things you wanted him to say.
It's would be the stupidest decision in the history of sport if he turns down the swim now.
Yes, I know his mother.
Do I know for sure that Thorpe will win? No
Do I know that Craig Stevens wouldn't make the final? Yes
Then why have the selection event ? beats me, I don't run swimming, didn't ban Dawn Fraser when she was a chance to win a 4th gold medal in the 100 metres. etc etc
Could Thorpe be a gracious loser? Seemed to me that he was as he said all the things you wanted him to say.
It's would be the stupidest decision in the history of sport if he turns down the swim now.
- Sep 30, 2003
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How does the guy win?
He steps aside (as he has), he's called a soft ****, but he's still in Athens, he's $60K + richer and he has a job with 7. Not a bad wicket, plus a weight is off his shoulders.
He stays, in spite of the corporate pressure placed on him. He's expected to win a medal like the guy who false started, and has an ignorant public crapping on about events occurring in March that are now long gone. Come Athens, he doesn't win a medal...ignorant public hound him into submission. Which would you do if in the same situation?
The guy seems at ease now a decision has been made, here's hoping he does well in his main events.
Oh by the way, how many elite athletes are there on BigFooty?
He steps aside (as he has), he's called a soft ****, but he's still in Athens, he's $60K + richer and he has a job with 7. Not a bad wicket, plus a weight is off his shoulders.
He stays, in spite of the corporate pressure placed on him. He's expected to win a medal like the guy who false started, and has an ignorant public crapping on about events occurring in March that are now long gone. Come Athens, he doesn't win a medal...ignorant public hound him into submission. Which would you do if in the same situation?
The guy seems at ease now a decision has been made, here's hoping he does well in his main events.
Oh by the way, how many elite athletes are there on BigFooty?
- Banned
- #40
Weak and soft by Stevens, he should have stood his ground and told everyone else to get f*cked, especially the media. Wasn't it said that what Thorpe did in his false start doesn't confirm to rules which apply for all olympic qualifying meets worldwide? I don't buy this crap about sending the best team blah blah, it's just like saying that the top 2 teams in the AFL should always play off for the grand final. In this case Thorpe didn't confirm to the rules, so he doesn't swim in the 400m and has given someone else the opportunity to do so.
- Banned
- #41
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ driven.
Its pathetic Ch7 (ironically they have the rights to the olympics and need this event as their show peice) had to bribe him and then disguise it as an interview for him to step down.
Would he be stepping down if there was no mo money involved? I hardly doubt it.
Money talks bull__**** walks.
Its pathetic Ch7 (ironically they have the rights to the olympics and need this event as their show peice) had to bribe him and then disguise it as an interview for him to step down.
Would he be stepping down if there was no mo money involved? I hardly doubt it.
Money talks bull__**** walks.
The point of it is to find the best swimmers for the events - obviously they didn't because of the stupid false start rule. It's not about getting who they want - if Stevens had actually beaten Thorpe in the pool there would be no problem. However, he didn't!
This was a farce to begin with and now they have added to the farce. Anyone in their right mind can see Thorpe is better for this event than Stevens so the right outcome is reached, just completely the wrong way to do it. As I said at the time, the false start rule was irrelevant for trials, but some people insisted on the pedantic 'rules are rules' which was just stupid.
stupid comments.
Stevens should give up $60K, massive media exposure for being a good guy and a job with channel 7 for what?
a chance at a medal? One that he obviously knew he would not win?
He made the right decision. The one that was best for him.
- Banned
- #44
i think the trials have being proven to be nothing more then a farse, i still don't understand why thorpe automatically gets the spot shouldn't it goto the next aussie that can compete that finished the race? if i was the other competitors i would be seriously ****ed that it wasn't my shot to be in the 400m rather they give it to someone that didn't even finish the race. One other thing, why does stevens and thorpe deciede who swims in the 400m isn't their a aussie swimming governing body? if there is they have done nothing imo and are weaker then both stevens and thorpe. All 3 of those should hang their heads in shame!
Who cares? We just got a guaranteed gold medal. YAY!
- Banned
- #46
simple stevens steps aside and says he won't go as he did*, thorpe says he doesn't deserve to go as he hasn't, and also steps aside again as he hasn't, then either take the next aussie that finished the race and he takes the spot or leave hackett? as the only 400m olympic competitor, problem solved!
*he should also say he will never swim the 400m competitively again, as he seems to have made a joke out of meet
I don't really get this either. Strictly speaking the second-place finisher should get in, even though that is even more stupid. If Thorpe gets in then it does make the original trials a waste of time. Should they run that particular trial event again? Whole thing is a joke and a disaster!
Does anybody remember if the person who came third swum under the qualifying time? Because if he didn't then these arguments that he should swim in place of Stevens just aren't valid.
I don't know, to me, it seems that it's about the Australians selecting a team, not about selfish competing - that's what the Olympics are for. It shouldn't be about "he earned it and he should take it." particularly when he doesn't feel like he has earnt it. And I agree with others that one race is a hard way to do it, particularly with the disqualifications. Picking a team is hard, and while I see a need for this meet, I can also see how there can be exceptions to the rule. There are those who swim well all year, and are mildly injured, or disqualified or whatever come the race, which shows nothing of how they would do at the actual Olympics. And then there are those who have been out for a long spell, and have just built up their fitness in time for the meet, which means they'll be good to go for the Olympics, which mean that a meet like this is needed so that they can be selected because although they deserve to go, they wouldn't be selected on their years form. So, do you do it on a case by case basis? Probably quite impossible, and yet it would just seem like Australia stabbing themselves in the foot if Thorpey wasn't allowed to swim in the 400m. Remember, we want our best team, not our politically correct team.
Besides, since Stevens has stood down, why are people bagging Thorpey? Not once did I hear him whinging about being disqualified, and you can bet I would be in the situation, and about 50% of you would be too, I'd reckon.
I don't know, to me, it seems that it's about the Australians selecting a team, not about selfish competing - that's what the Olympics are for. It shouldn't be about "he earned it and he should take it." particularly when he doesn't feel like he has earnt it. And I agree with others that one race is a hard way to do it, particularly with the disqualifications. Picking a team is hard, and while I see a need for this meet, I can also see how there can be exceptions to the rule. There are those who swim well all year, and are mildly injured, or disqualified or whatever come the race, which shows nothing of how they would do at the actual Olympics. And then there are those who have been out for a long spell, and have just built up their fitness in time for the meet, which means they'll be good to go for the Olympics, which mean that a meet like this is needed so that they can be selected because although they deserve to go, they wouldn't be selected on their years form. So, do you do it on a case by case basis? Probably quite impossible, and yet it would just seem like Australia stabbing themselves in the foot if Thorpey wasn't allowed to swim in the 400m. Remember, we want our best team, not our politically correct team.
Besides, since Stevens has stood down, why are people bagging Thorpey? Not once did I hear him whinging about being disqualified, and you can bet I would be in the situation, and about 50% of you would be too, I'd reckon.
Bomber Spirit
Norm Smith Medallist
Nothing's guaranteed. What if he falls off the blocks again?
