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Cricket Discussion - Part 2
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Flat tracker, not the only player in the world to do this though.
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So far so good. Warner doing what most of us thought he would do, make runs on bouncier faster Australian wickets.
RussellEbertHandball
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Just on that Lara and Adams all day partnership in Jamaica test in 1999, I probably watched 65% of that, as I fell asleep about 5.00am after starting at 12.30am, but I looked up some Lara stuff last night after he was The Front Bar last night. It was brilliant stuff by the gang and Brian.
Lara is the best test batsman I have ever seen and Tendulkar probably is the best ever over Tests + ODI's + bit of T20's I saw him play.
The 153 n.o Lara made in the next Test in Barbados when he lead the Windies to a 1 wicket win chasing 308 is the best innings I have ever seen. I stayed up all 7.5 hours from 12.30am to watch it.
Stokes' innings this year at Headingly a few months ago comes close, but his heroics was all really for the last wicket, but Lara's was all innings. I think he came in at #4.
That 213 he made was after leading the Windies to a 0-5 whitewash against South Africa in South Africa and for a black man that was a big deal. The first test was close then the South Africans smashed them in the next 4 tests.
Then in the first test against Australia in Trinidad, Lara's home nation and home town of Port of Spain, the Windies were bowled out for 51 in their 2nd innings and Australia won by over 300 runs. The press in the Windies were scathing on Lara and called for his head.
In the 2nd test in Jamaica, Australia batted first and made 250ish and at stumps on the 1st day, the Windies were 4-37. Lara was not out 6 or 7 and Pedro Collins was not out 1, but became ill overnight and didn't bat at the start of the day, so Jimmy Adams came in. Lara was 212 n.o at stumps and Adams 80 odd. Lara made 213, Adams 90 odd, the Windies had a lead of 170 odd, then bowled Oz out for 175 or so and the Windies only had to make 2 or 3 runs to win by 10 wickets.
Lara under so much pressure, pull out every shot in his repertoire to save his nation from further humiliation in the 2nd test and plays one of the greatest innings ever, followed by an even better one in the 3rd test. In the 4th test he made 100 in a session between lunch and tea on day 2. Talk about eating pressure for breakfast.
In 2001 Wisden ranked the 100 best ever test innings. The 153 n.o Lara made in Barbados and I stayed up and watched all of it, was ranked 2nd best ever.
2nd only to Bradman's 270 in 1936-37 series when Oz were 0-2 against the poms and it's the only time in a 5 test series a team 0-2 down, has come back and won the series. The wicket was wet, the poms made 75, Oz had a lead of 125 and the Aussies sent the 4 bowlers in first in for the 2nd innings. Bradman batted 7 and I reckon that 270 is the highest score ever made by a #7 in test matches.
The 213 Lara made in Jamaica was ranked 14th best ever test innings in that 2001 list.
Bradman had 1st and 5th best, but Lara had 2nd, 10th the 375 against England in Antigua and 14th. Bradman had 5 innings in the top 100, but his 3rd was at no. 36. It gives you a good idea how bloody good Lara was.
Lara is the best test batsman I have ever seen and Tendulkar probably is the best ever over Tests + ODI's + bit of T20's I saw him play.
The 153 n.o Lara made in the next Test in Barbados when he lead the Windies to a 1 wicket win chasing 308 is the best innings I have ever seen. I stayed up all 7.5 hours from 12.30am to watch it.
Stokes' innings this year at Headingly a few months ago comes close, but his heroics was all really for the last wicket, but Lara's was all innings. I think he came in at #4.
That 213 he made was after leading the Windies to a 0-5 whitewash against South Africa in South Africa and for a black man that was a big deal. The first test was close then the South Africans smashed them in the next 4 tests.
Then in the first test against Australia in Trinidad, Lara's home nation and home town of Port of Spain, the Windies were bowled out for 51 in their 2nd innings and Australia won by over 300 runs. The press in the Windies were scathing on Lara and called for his head.
In the 2nd test in Jamaica, Australia batted first and made 250ish and at stumps on the 1st day, the Windies were 4-37. Lara was not out 6 or 7 and Pedro Collins was not out 1, but became ill overnight and didn't bat at the start of the day, so Jimmy Adams came in. Lara was 212 n.o at stumps and Adams 80 odd. Lara made 213, Adams 90 odd, the Windies had a lead of 170 odd, then bowled Oz out for 175 or so and the Windies only had to make 2 or 3 runs to win by 10 wickets.
Lara under so much pressure, pull out every shot in his repertoire to save his nation from further humiliation in the 2nd test and plays one of the greatest innings ever, followed by an even better one in the 3rd test. In the 4th test he made 100 in a session between lunch and tea on day 2. Talk about eating pressure for breakfast.
In 2001 Wisden ranked the 100 best ever test innings. The 153 n.o Lara made in Barbados and I stayed up and watched all of it, was ranked 2nd best ever.
2nd only to Bradman's 270 in 1936-37 series when Oz were 0-2 against the poms and it's the only time in a 5 test series a team 0-2 down, has come back and won the series. The wicket was wet, the poms made 75, Oz had a lead of 125 and the Aussies sent the 4 bowlers in first in for the 2nd innings. Bradman batted 7 and I reckon that 270 is the highest score ever made by a #7 in test matches.
The 213 Lara made in Jamaica was ranked 14th best ever test innings in that 2001 list.
Bradman had 1st and 5th best, but Lara had 2nd, 10th the 375 against England in Antigua and 14th. Bradman had 5 innings in the top 100, but his 3rd was at no. 36. It gives you a good idea how bloody good Lara was.
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RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
Some of the great stuff with Brian Lara on The Front Bar Last night.
They flew the wickie Chris Scott who played for Durham in 1994 and dropped Lara when he was 18 in a county game and Lara just added a lazy 483 extra runs to be 501 not out. It was an extraordinary run of 7 hundreds in 8 first class innings starting with 375 in the test in Antigua and ending with the 501 for Warwickshire vs Durham. 7 hundreds in 8 first class innings never been done before or since.
Scott took a lot of shit and they reenacted a hit to let him catch out Lara this time, but for all the ribbing he did get a free flight to Oz for his troubles.
They flew the wickie Chris Scott who played for Durham in 1994 and dropped Lara when he was 18 in a county game and Lara just added a lazy 483 extra runs to be 501 not out. It was an extraordinary run of 7 hundreds in 8 first class innings starting with 375 in the test in Antigua and ending with the 501 for Warwickshire vs Durham. 7 hundreds in 8 first class innings never been done before or since.
Scott took a lot of shit and they reenacted a hit to let him catch out Lara this time, but for all the ribbing he did get a free flight to Oz for his troubles.
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RussellEbertHandball
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That Romanian slow bowler/chucker who made cricket world headlines earlier this year is playing in Oz
Thomo gave him a couple of tips.
Thomo gave him a couple of tips.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
Thomo was on, his usual brilliant self but they didn't put much of him up on their twitter account.
If you haven't seen the Cricket in the 70's doco the ABC had on about 15 years ago here is the part where they say how much beer you were allowed to take into the ground back then - well early 70's before WSC started.
Edit: yesterday I posted Lara is the only player to make 7 100's in 8 first class games, I meant to write in 8 first class innings but stuffed up.
This is what he produced in 1994. I was in the UK for a week, before he made the 501, and I read the papers report of his 5th in a row, went to France for a week with work and when I returned to UK he was front page with 501*.
From The Independent in 1994 after he got to 111* at stumps on day 2.
www.independent.co.uk
LARA'S RECORD RUN OF CENTURIES
375 West Indies v England (Antigua)
147 Warwickshire v Glamorgan (Edgbaston)
106 Warwickshire v Leicestershire (Edgbaston) + 120* Warwickshire v Leics (Edgbaston)
136 Warwickshire v Somerset (Taunton)
26 Warwickshire v Middlesex (Lord's) + 140 Warwickshire v Middlesex
501* Warwickshire v Durham (Edgbaston)
If you haven't seen the Cricket in the 70's doco the ABC had on about 15 years ago here is the part where they say how much beer you were allowed to take into the ground back then - well early 70's before WSC started.
Edit: yesterday I posted Lara is the only player to make 7 100's in 8 first class games, I meant to write in 8 first class innings but stuffed up.
This is what he produced in 1994. I was in the UK for a week, before he made the 501, and I read the papers report of his 5th in a row, went to France for a week with work and when I returned to UK he was front page with 501*.
From The Independent in 1994 after he got to 111* at stumps on day 2.
Cricket: Centurion Lara breaks new ground: Seven hundreds from eight
Durham 556-8 dec
www.independent.co.uk
LARA'S RECORD RUN OF CENTURIES
375 West Indies v England (Antigua)
147 Warwickshire v Glamorgan (Edgbaston)
106 Warwickshire v Leicestershire (Edgbaston) + 120* Warwickshire v Leics (Edgbaston)
136 Warwickshire v Somerset (Taunton)
26 Warwickshire v Middlesex (Lord's) + 140 Warwickshire v Middlesex
501* Warwickshire v Durham (Edgbaston)
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just to back up earlier claims Warner is nothing but a flat track bully.
16 of his 22 centuries at home on our roads.
centuries away from home
2 vs Bangladesh
1 vs Pakistan in the UAE
3 v South Africa
41 Tests Away for 6 centuries
39 Tests at Home for 16 centuries
16 of his 22 centuries at home on our roads.
centuries away from home
2 vs Bangladesh
1 vs Pakistan in the UAE
3 v South Africa
41 Tests Away for 6 centuries
39 Tests at Home for 16 centuries
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Many batsmen have better records at home than away.
Yep as I said yesterday, not the only one!. All test countries have them.
this is what makes Steve Smith so bloody great, he does it in all conditions, and scenarios!.
philreich
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Do you reckon Smith will have a bit of a licence to dominate when he finally gets to the wicket some time today?
He's so used to coming to the crease with the score at 2 for 10: 2 for 450 will be rather unique.
Do you reckon Smith will have a bit of a licence to dominate when he finally gets to the wicket some time today?
Yeah, depending how early he gets to the crease, if it's early he'll probably let who ever is in to free the arms up til he's ready to join in the fun.
We could legit end up with over 700 by the time we dec 30-45 mins before stumps today.
RussellEbertHandball
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Nearly all batsman who have made 2,000 runs or more in Test cricket do. That Howstats site has a page on it that you can adjust the minimum runs by the batsmen and maybe 1 in 10 have a better record away from home compared to home. plenty have a better record in one away country compared to home, but very few for all away tests compared to home.
IIRC Bradman has an average of 103 in England but never went on a tour to South Africa or India and didnt go to NZ for the 1 off test in 1945 and there was no tour to the West Indies in his playing day.
Will dig up that Howstat link when I get in front of my computer.
philreich
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There's 270 overs remaining, so there's no pressure on the skipper to declare. We might as well destroy the opposition mentally, so by the time they bat a second time, they're playing to survive.
philreich
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We may be about to witness a rare 2 day Test. India has just declared 241 runs ahead of Bangladesh, who have to survive more overs than they lasted yesterday.
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For those interested the ABC have Julia Zimero's episode on Ian Chappell up on I View.
It is worth watching particularly Chappelli's views on Don Bradman. Needless to say it confirms the popular opinion that Bradman was admired but not liked by his peers. Chappell uses the word 'vindictive' to describe Bradman's attitude.
It is worth watching particularly Chappelli's views on Don Bradman. Needless to say it confirms the popular opinion that Bradman was admired but not liked by his peers. Chappell uses the word 'vindictive' to describe Bradman's attitude.
RussellEbertHandball
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I thought the baseball stuff at the start at the Glenelg Baseball club and driving the bright red charger around Adelaide was great.
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Chapelli actually related a story he heard from Tiger O'Reilly, apparently when they were in England in 1934 a fan gave Bradman a thousand pounds after the Don had scored his 304 at Leeds. Bradman kept all the money which upset the rest of the team as they thought he could have chucked fifty on the bar to buy the rest of the side a drink or two.
KG Cunningham is one of the few who thinks Bradman was a great bloke so that must tell us something.
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Yes, that was interesting. It was also interesting that baseball was Chappell's first preference as a young boy and that he actually played baseball for Australia before cricket. I also liked the tour of Prince Alfred Collegiate School for Boys or as Peter Goers calls it, Kent Town High School. That Charger also looked in good nick.
The memory lane stuff was great but Zemiro did not touch on Chappell's relationship with Lawry and Greig. When he was playing Chappell did not get along that well with Bill Lawry and he and Greig were the best of enemies. In later years when they came together as part of the NINE commentary team they appeared to be the best of mates. It would have been interesting to hear how that transition occurred.
The thing that really soured the relationship between Chappell and Bradman was the World Series stuff and it is rather an ironinc parallel that in his playing days Bradman, the champion of the establishment in 1977, was stood down by the ACCB because he was writing a column for a newspaper which was deemed to be earning money from the game. Almost fifty years later Bradman is fighting a group of players who want more money from the game.
I will have to look up the Ray Martin interview just to refresh my mind on the other side of the story. I haven't read Brett Hutchins book, 'Challenging The Myth' but it sure upset poor old KG Cunningham, particularly the bit about Bradman using his business partner as a patsy with the result the Don walked away while his ex partner went to gaol. I can still hear KG defending Bradman.
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RussellEbertHandball
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I knew Ian played baseball, and played for Oz in baseball before in cricket, but I forgot he was a catcher. I knew he used to talk about wanting to play for NY Yankees as much as Oz. He definitely had a bit of the Yogi Berra's about him re his on field leadership. Lot more articulate off field than Yogi.
I had never heard that he won sports scholarship at PAC, after Julia said its rather posh for you Ian. I assume Greg and Trevor got sports scholarship as well.
It's always interesting to me how he talks about Martin and Jeanne and Vic, never dad and mum and grandpa. The stories in the doco just further confirmed what great grounding he got from his parents re both sports, sportsmanship, the thirst for the contest, and non sports matters and why he was able to handle leadership so well.
The Bradman stuff wasn't new to me. I reckon Vic would have schooled him well. After Bill Ponsford retired, Vic Richardson was made captain for the 1935-36 South African tour as Bradman pulled out of the tour, think it was health reasons. Vic lead Oz to a 4-0 and a draw, series victory largely due to Clarrie Grimmett taking 44 wickets, still the 3rd highest wickets taken in a 4,5 or 6 test match series.
Bradman was made captain and had a fair say in Grimmett never being picked for Oz again. O'Reilly took 27 wickets in the South African tour with Grimmett, he had debuted in late 1932. Grimmett was 44 years old at the end of the tour and O'Reilly 30, so Bradman might not have been as vindictive as Vic obviously thought and passed onto Ian, but Grimmett probably did deserve to be picked in the first test in the 1936-37 ashes series, even if he was 3 weeks short of his 45th birthday.
I had never heard that he won sports scholarship at PAC, after Julia said its rather posh for you Ian. I assume Greg and Trevor got sports scholarship as well.
It's always interesting to me how he talks about Martin and Jeanne and Vic, never dad and mum and grandpa. The stories in the doco just further confirmed what great grounding he got from his parents re both sports, sportsmanship, the thirst for the contest, and non sports matters and why he was able to handle leadership so well.
The Bradman stuff wasn't new to me. I reckon Vic would have schooled him well. After Bill Ponsford retired, Vic Richardson was made captain for the 1935-36 South African tour as Bradman pulled out of the tour, think it was health reasons. Vic lead Oz to a 4-0 and a draw, series victory largely due to Clarrie Grimmett taking 44 wickets, still the 3rd highest wickets taken in a 4,5 or 6 test match series.
Bradman was made captain and had a fair say in Grimmett never being picked for Oz again. O'Reilly took 27 wickets in the South African tour with Grimmett, he had debuted in late 1932. Grimmett was 44 years old at the end of the tour and O'Reilly 30, so Bradman might not have been as vindictive as Vic obviously thought and passed onto Ian, but Grimmett probably did deserve to be picked in the first test in the 1936-37 ashes series, even if he was 3 weeks short of his 45th birthday.
Slater thinking that Australia has the best bowling attack in the world is way off the mark.
If you look at the current top rankings in the world atm, we have one in the top 10, that's Cummins in number 1.
rest is
2. Rabada (SA)
3. Holder (WI)
4. J Bumrah (Ind)
5. J Anderson (Eng)
6. T Boult (NZ)
7. M Shami (Ind)
8. N Wagner (NZ)
9. V Philander (SA)
10. R Ashwin (Ind)
what we do have though is very good depth!.
If you look at the current top rankings in the world atm, we have one in the top 10, that's Cummins in number 1.
rest is
2. Rabada (SA)
3. Holder (WI)
4. J Bumrah (Ind)
5. J Anderson (Eng)
6. T Boult (NZ)
7. M Shami (Ind)
8. N Wagner (NZ)
9. V Philander (SA)
10. R Ashwin (Ind)
what we do have though is very good depth!.
philreich
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Kiwis currently showing they'll be hard to beat next month. They're 6 for 532 against England, with the 7th wicket stand having put on 216 runs so far!!!
RussellEbertHandball
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7th wicket partnership of 261 is now the 5th highest in Test history. Of course I looked it up at 260 so they get out soon after that.
| 347 | DS Atkinson (219) & CC Depeiaza (122) | West Indies v Australia | Kensington Oval, Bridgetown | 1954/55 |
| 308 | Waqar Hasan (189) & Imtiaz Ahmed (209) | Pakistan v New Zealand | Bagh-e-Jinnah, Lahore | 1955/56 |
| 295* | SO Dowrich (116*) & JO Holder (202*) | West Indies v England | Kensington Oval, Bridgetown | 2018/19 |
| 280 | RG Sharma (177) & R Ashwin (124) | India v West Indies | Eden Gardens, Kolkata | 2013/14 |
| 259* | VVS Laxman (143*) & MS Dhoni (132*) | India v South Africa | Eden Gardens, Kolkata | 2009/10 |
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I am often stumped by the application of the DRS.
The on field umpire gives 'not out' the fielding side decides on a review. The review shows fair delivery, ball pitched outside of off, batsman in line, no bat involved and ball tracking shows the ball clipping the bails. According to Law 36 that is out yet the decision reverts back to the on field umpire's call and it is given not out. Why have the DRS if you are not going to take any notice it? Smacks of a face saver for the umpire who, according to the technology, got it wrong.
It also suggests that those running the game are not entirely convinced about the accuracy of the ball tracking technology and require a margin of error to appease their conscience.
The on field umpire gives 'not out' the fielding side decides on a review. The review shows fair delivery, ball pitched outside of off, batsman in line, no bat involved and ball tracking shows the ball clipping the bails. According to Law 36 that is out yet the decision reverts back to the on field umpire's call and it is given not out. Why have the DRS if you are not going to take any notice it? Smacks of a face saver for the umpire who, according to the technology, got it wrong.
It also suggests that those running the game are not entirely convinced about the accuracy of the ball tracking technology and require a margin of error to appease their conscience.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
More than half the ball has to hit the wicket to overturn a not out decision by the umpire, whereas if the umpire gives it out, and on checking it only clips the bail or stump, they will stay with the umpires decision.
I think it is to give the umpires confidence that if its close they will go with the umpires decision as it was introduced to pick up the howler, not the marginally wrong decision.
If the umpire gives it not out and the DRS shows the ball has just clipped the wicket, so a not out decision is confirmed, then the fielding side doesn't lose a review.
Yeah I think they realise that the technology isn't 100% accurate and might be more accurate than the umpire, but as it is still a projection, not an absolute 100% guarantee, as no one knows for sure if the ball will absolutely track as per the computer simulation.
As I said, its more to pick up when say a batsman plays back, gets hit in the pads and the only thing its was missing was off and leg stump and the umpire gives the LBW appeal not out. The DRS is there to over turn that howler.
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