The ****ing collapse
Cricket Discussion - Part 2
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philreich
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3 very unnecessary wickets - this Smith/Carey partnership is huge in the context of the whole series.
Marsh justifying why he keeps getting picked this summer
Ford Fairlane
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Solid score at the end of the day but could have been so much better.
2 terrible get out shots by Ussie and Marnus, terrible get out non-shot by Trav. Marsh being picked on reputation has worn threadbare. Bring back McSweeney for him.
Konstas sensational debut, really climbed into the Indians' heads rent-free. Kohli, dog act knowing he is immune from sanction.
2 terrible get out shots by Ussie and Marnus, terrible get out non-shot by Trav. Marsh being picked on reputation has worn threadbare. Bring back McSweeney for him.
Konstas sensational debut, really climbed into the Indians' heads rent-free. Kohli, dog act knowing he is immune from sanction.
RussellEbertHandball
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What a day's play that was. Had just about everything except for a 6 ball an over bumper barrage and a Colin Croft full toss at the head.
That start by Konstas went from the kid is bloody ridiculous to the kid is unbelievable and put Bumrah and the Indians right off their game plan. There is a bloody fine line between courage and stupidity and Konstas and Jaiswal seem to walk on both sides of that line. Lets see how long Sam can keep this up but the kid has no fear at this stage of his career.
Had to look up Konstas record as it said he had played 11 first class matches. Last year he debuted for NSW and played 4 shield matches as an 18 year old and his stats were;
Before this test he has played 7 first class games in the 2024-25 season
V SA in Sydney... 152, 105
v Vic at MCG......... 2, 43
V India A 1st game 0, 16
V India A 2nd game 3, 73*
v SA in SA............ 28, DNB NSW beat SA by an Innings at Karen Rolton Oval
V Tas at SCG ....... 39, 14
V WA at SCG ........ 88, DNB NSW beat WA by an Innings
So he has gone into this test with a record of 11 first class games 18 innings, 1 NO, 718 runs at 42.23, with 2 centuries and 3 fifties.
I think Phil Hughes had played more games than Sam and I reckon there is only 1 or 2 games in it between him and Steve Waugh.
Don't know how many first class games a 19 year old and 354 day Dougie Walters had played before he made his debut in the mid 1960's and I reckon Ian Craig had only played a handful of games when he was picked as a 17 year old in 1952/53.
Bradman had played a season and a bit when he was picked for Oz, but there were only 4 shield sides so he had only played 10 games.
Its bowlers that Oz selectors tend to pull from nowhere after only a few games - Cummins, Warne, Peter Taylor etc.
I reckon Ian Healy had only played 4 first class games when they picked him as the keeper for the 1988-89 tour of Pakistan. EDIT it was 6 games.
That start by Konstas went from the kid is bloody ridiculous to the kid is unbelievable and put Bumrah and the Indians right off their game plan. There is a bloody fine line between courage and stupidity and Konstas and Jaiswal seem to walk on both sides of that line. Lets see how long Sam can keep this up but the kid has no fear at this stage of his career.
Had to look up Konstas record as it said he had played 11 first class matches. Last year he debuted for NSW and played 4 shield matches as an 18 year old and his stats were;
| Player | Mat | Inns | NO | Runs | BF | HS | Ave | SR | 100 | 50 | 0 | 4s | 6s |
| S Konstas | 4 | 6 | - | 155 | 375 | 57 | 25.83 | 41.33 | - | 1 | - | 21 | 0 |
Before this test he has played 7 first class games in the 2024-25 season
V SA in Sydney... 152, 105
v Vic at MCG......... 2, 43
V India A 1st game 0, 16
V India A 2nd game 3, 73*
v SA in SA............ 28, DNB NSW beat SA by an Innings at Karen Rolton Oval
V Tas at SCG ....... 39, 14
V WA at SCG ........ 88, DNB NSW beat WA by an Innings
So he has gone into this test with a record of 11 first class games 18 innings, 1 NO, 718 runs at 42.23, with 2 centuries and 3 fifties.
I think Phil Hughes had played more games than Sam and I reckon there is only 1 or 2 games in it between him and Steve Waugh.
Don't know how many first class games a 19 year old and 354 day Dougie Walters had played before he made his debut in the mid 1960's and I reckon Ian Craig had only played a handful of games when he was picked as a 17 year old in 1952/53.
Bradman had played a season and a bit when he was picked for Oz, but there were only 4 shield sides so he had only played 10 games.
Its bowlers that Oz selectors tend to pull from nowhere after only a few games - Cummins, Warne, Peter Taylor etc.
I reckon Ian Healy had only played 4 first class games when they picked him as the keeper for the 1988-89 tour of Pakistan. EDIT it was 6 games.
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RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
From my last post I dug around to see how many games the 4 young batsmen I mentioned above, had played before they made their test debut.
Steve Waugh
International career. After ten first-class matches for NSW, he made his Test debut against India in the 1985–86 season, in the Second Test at Melbourne. He scored 13 and 5 and took 2/36 in the first innings.
Phil Hughes
Phillip Hughes played 18 first-class matches before making his Test debut, including several for Middlesex.
Doug Walters
Dougie had played 17 games at end of 1964/65 season, he had made his debut as a 17 year old late in 62/63 season and made his test debut in 10 December 1965 - he was born 21 December 1945. So made his test debut 11 days before 20th birthday. He played 2 shield games in 1965/66 and then a game for NSW against England making 129 before the first test, so he had played 20 games.
Ian Craig
Can't find how many games he had played, but he made a double hundred against touring South African's - Craig's breakthrough came in January 1953 when, at the age of 17 years and 207 days,[5][7] he became the youngest double centurion in the history of first-class cricket at the time, in only his 13th first-class innings. So at least 7 games.
He was made 12th man for the 4th test and then 5th test starting on 6th February 1953 he made his test debut against the South Africans.
Steve Waugh
International career. After ten first-class matches for NSW, he made his Test debut against India in the 1985–86 season, in the Second Test at Melbourne. He scored 13 and 5 and took 2/36 in the first innings.
Phil Hughes
Phillip Hughes played 18 first-class matches before making his Test debut, including several for Middlesex.
Doug Walters
Dougie had played 17 games at end of 1964/65 season, he had made his debut as a 17 year old late in 62/63 season and made his test debut in 10 December 1965 - he was born 21 December 1945. So made his test debut 11 days before 20th birthday. He played 2 shield games in 1965/66 and then a game for NSW against England making 129 before the first test, so he had played 20 games.
Ian Craig
Can't find how many games he had played, but he made a double hundred against touring South African's - Craig's breakthrough came in January 1953 when, at the age of 17 years and 207 days,[5][7] he became the youngest double centurion in the history of first-class cricket at the time, in only his 13th first-class innings. So at least 7 games.
He was made 12th man for the 4th test and then 5th test starting on 6th February 1953 he made his test debut against the South Africans.
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RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
From this November 2016 Cricket Australia website article about rookies who have debuted for Australia. Matt Renshaw was about to make his debut and they looked at Aussie greats who made their debut with less than 20 first class games.
Pat Cummins had made his debut in South Africa in November 2011 when he was 18 years and 193 days, he won man of the match for his 6 for in the 2nd innings 2nd test to square the 2 test series 1-1. He is the second youngest Aussie test player, behind Ian Craig's 17 years and 239 days. But he hurt his back and wouldn't play another test match until March 2017 in Ranchi India, the 3rd test which was a draw, the series was 1-1-1, then Oz lost the 4th test by 8 wickets and the series in Dharamsala in the Himalayas.
Cummins had played 3 first class matches before his test debut. 3 shield games in 2010-11, where he took 9 wickets for 417 runs at 46.33 and a strike rate of 90.66.
In the list below I have added the years and days age for those players under 21.
www.cricket.com.au
With young opener Matt Renshaw set to debut, we reveal a great Australia side made up of players who debuted with fewer than 20 first-class matches to their name
Before Matt Renshaw, there was Michael Slater. And before Slater, there was Steve Waugh. On it goes, all the way back to Bradman; those proud wearers of the Baggy Green who debuted with only modest first-class experience to call on.
With Renshaw set to debut as a 20-year-old with just 12 first-class matches under his belt, we've taken a look back through the annals of Australian cricket history, and prove quite unequivocally that experience doesn't count for everything when it comes to Australia's Test debutants.
In fact, the below team – made up of players who appeared in fewer than 20 first-class matches when called up to debut for Australia – reads like a who's who of Baggy Green greats.
Will Renshaw one day join the list?
1. Michael Slater - First-class record before Test debut: 16 matches, 1520 runs at 58.46 (4x100s, 11x50s)
Age at Test debut: 23
2. Phillip Hughes - First-class record before Test debut: 18 matches, 1,648 runs at 58.85 (5x100s, 10x50s)
Age at Test debut: 20 (20 and 88 days)
3. Sir Donald Bradman - First-class record before Test debut: 9 matches, 989 runs at 76.08 (4x100s, 3x50s)
Age at Test debut: 20 (20 and 95 days)
4. Neil Harvey - First-class record before Test debut: 11 matches, 705 runs at 47.00 (1x100, 4x50s)
Age at Test debut: 19 (19 and 107 days)
5. Steve Waugh - First-class record before Test debut: 11 matches, 605 runs at 43.21 (2x100s, 2x50s)
Age at Test debut: 20 (20 and 207 days)
6. Justin Langer - First-class record before Test debut: 14 matches, 1,121 runs at 44.84 (3x100s, 5x50s)
Age at Test debut: 22
7. Ian Healy - First-class record before Test debut: 8 matches, 19 catches, 2 stumpings, 253 runs at 25.30 (1x50)
Age at Test debut: 24
8. Brett Lee - First-class record before Test debut: 16 matches, 71 wickets at 22.07 (3x5wi)
Age at Test debut: 23
9. Shane Warne - First-class record before Test debut: 7 matches, 26 wickets at 22.46
Age at Test debut: 22
10. Craig McDermott - First-class record before Test debut: 14 matches, 45 wickets at 29.37 (1x5wi)
Age at Test debut: 19 ( 19 and 252 days)
11. Glenn McGrath - First-class record before Test debut: 8 matches, 32 wickets at 26.25 (2x5wi)
Age at Test debut: 23
Pat Cummins had made his debut in South Africa in November 2011 when he was 18 years and 193 days, he won man of the match for his 6 for in the 2nd innings 2nd test to square the 2 test series 1-1. He is the second youngest Aussie test player, behind Ian Craig's 17 years and 239 days. But he hurt his back and wouldn't play another test match until March 2017 in Ranchi India, the 3rd test which was a draw, the series was 1-1-1, then Oz lost the 4th test by 8 wickets and the series in Dharamsala in the Himalayas.
Cummins had played 3 first class matches before his test debut. 3 shield games in 2010-11, where he took 9 wickets for 417 runs at 46.33 and a strike rate of 90.66.
In the list below I have added the years and days age for those players under 21.
Green in Baggy Green XI: Rookies who made it | cricket.com.au
With young opener Matt Renshaw set to debut, we reveal a great Australia side made up of players who…
www.cricket.com.au
With young opener Matt Renshaw set to debut, we reveal a great Australia side made up of players who debuted with fewer than 20 first-class matches to their name
Before Matt Renshaw, there was Michael Slater. And before Slater, there was Steve Waugh. On it goes, all the way back to Bradman; those proud wearers of the Baggy Green who debuted with only modest first-class experience to call on.
With Renshaw set to debut as a 20-year-old with just 12 first-class matches under his belt, we've taken a look back through the annals of Australian cricket history, and prove quite unequivocally that experience doesn't count for everything when it comes to Australia's Test debutants.
In fact, the below team – made up of players who appeared in fewer than 20 first-class matches when called up to debut for Australia – reads like a who's who of Baggy Green greats.
Will Renshaw one day join the list?
1. Michael Slater - First-class record before Test debut: 16 matches, 1520 runs at 58.46 (4x100s, 11x50s)
Age at Test debut: 23
2. Phillip Hughes - First-class record before Test debut: 18 matches, 1,648 runs at 58.85 (5x100s, 10x50s)
Age at Test debut: 20 (20 and 88 days)
3. Sir Donald Bradman - First-class record before Test debut: 9 matches, 989 runs at 76.08 (4x100s, 3x50s)
Age at Test debut: 20 (20 and 95 days)
4. Neil Harvey - First-class record before Test debut: 11 matches, 705 runs at 47.00 (1x100, 4x50s)
Age at Test debut: 19 (19 and 107 days)
5. Steve Waugh - First-class record before Test debut: 11 matches, 605 runs at 43.21 (2x100s, 2x50s)
Age at Test debut: 20 (20 and 207 days)
6. Justin Langer - First-class record before Test debut: 14 matches, 1,121 runs at 44.84 (3x100s, 5x50s)
Age at Test debut: 22
7. Ian Healy - First-class record before Test debut: 8 matches, 19 catches, 2 stumpings, 253 runs at 25.30 (1x50)
Age at Test debut: 24
8. Brett Lee - First-class record before Test debut: 16 matches, 71 wickets at 22.07 (3x5wi)
Age at Test debut: 23
9. Shane Warne - First-class record before Test debut: 7 matches, 26 wickets at 22.46
Age at Test debut: 22
10. Craig McDermott - First-class record before Test debut: 14 matches, 45 wickets at 29.37 (1x5wi)
Age at Test debut: 19 ( 19 and 252 days)
11. Glenn McGrath - First-class record before Test debut: 8 matches, 32 wickets at 26.25 (2x5wi)
Age at Test debut: 23
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
This table of ages and matches played for a few Aussie batsmen over the last 30 years was from an Cricinfo article written on 30 October 2024 and Konstas had played 2 shield games v SA and Vic. Since then and before the Boxing day test he played 5 more first class games, 2 vs India A and 3 shield games vs SA, Tas and WA.
www.espncricinfo.com
Australia's opening gamble: Is Sam Konstas ready for Test cricket?
It would be an unprecedented gamble in modern Australian cricket if the 19-year-old, with less than ten first-class games, were to be picked so soon
'It still needs to be ticked off by the ICC, but that’s a formality.'
Just to confirm the ICC is the Indian Cricket Community, right?
‘Entitled’ is the word that came to my mind when I saw it.
I mean here is one of the most experienced and respected cricketers on the planet in one of the most watched cricket matches of the year doing that and then just waving off the piss weak penalty like nothing happened.
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Sets such a crazy precedent too.
What happens if after he shoulder barges him Konstas gives him a shove back or a punch?
Its why you have to be brutal on deliberate physical contact.
What happens if after he shoulder barges him Konstas gives him a shove back or a punch?
Its why you have to be brutal on deliberate physical contact.
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How the **** does Mitch Marsh survive? It is as if the selectors are saying, 'we have to have an all rounder at no6 and Marsh is the best we can do'. Marsh has 76 runs in 6 innings this series and 47 of them have come from one innings. As for bowling Marsh has only bowled 23 overs in the series and taken 3 for 109. All three wickets came in Perth as did that top score of 47.
Given Marsh's limited success with the ball the selectors might as well pick a specialist batsman at no6.
Surely time has run out for this pretender?
Given Marsh's limited success with the ball the selectors might as well pick a specialist batsman at no6.
Surely time has run out for this pretender?
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Kohli has been fined 20% of his match payment and earned one demerit point over his collision with Konstas. Kohli is a serial offender and his belligerence has not diminished with age. A great batsman but I do not like the guy, his attitude stinks. He played the schoolyard bully with a 19 year old kid in his first Test. It did not look good.
Kohli sanctioned for Konstas incident on Boxing Day
Virat Kohli has been fined 20 percent of his match fee and awarded one demerit point for breaching Level 1 of the ICC Code of Conduct.
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100%, I know the Aussies have been and arr still labeled as bullies and sooks, but I can’t recall a physical altercation like this on the cricket pitch at international level.Kohli has been fined 20% of his match payment over his collision with Konstas. Kohli is a serial offender and his belligerence has not diminished with age. A great batsman but I do not like this guy, his attitude stinks.
Kohli sanctioned for Konstas incident on Boxing Day
Virat Kohli has been fined 20 percent of his match fee and awarded one demerit point for breaching Level 1 of the ICC Code of Conduct.www.icc-cricket.com
I love the ‘drama’ of it all, but I hope to the cricketing gods their is a square up for Kohli in this match, maybe not a King Pair, but an aggregate of under 30 would be fitting.
I hope we can bat through the first two sessions, Smith peel off another 100 and Cummins and Starc wag a bit, then the Melbourne tennis ball pop cause havoc on the Indians - however the pitch looks a treat.
Sunshine81
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Interesting that it is considered the equivalent of Siraj's send off to Head. Surely should have been 2 demerit points and 50% match fee, or a even classed as a Level 2 offence.
Ford Fairlane
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I believe it stands for Indian Cricket's Cucks.
I've watched cricket since the 70s and seen some of the hardest-nosed cricketers to play the game. And never have I seen them resort to physical contact in the course of a game because they respected the underlying concept of the game. A contest between bat and ball.
I'm tired of the conciliatory language from many sections of the commentary world - a collision, both players holding their ground. Sod off, some have had the courage to call it what it was, a deliberate shoulder charge by an arrogant entitled fading star who didn't like what was happening. Even the normally circumspect Tim Lane called the penalty laughable.
And the testicleless ICC folded up like the house of cards we know they are when it comes to India.
I was pissed off with Khawaja too, I don't care about his long-standing relationship with Kohli, he should have pushed up into his grille and told him him that was unacceptable.
Not so sure about that Ford...
But if you're gonna have a go, be a man and do it front on. Not a sneak unsighted bump on a kid in his first game. Cowardly stuff from Kohli.
Agree 100% with the rest of your post. And utterly pissweak penalty - totally expected.
I think its because they are so committed to Cam Green they don't want to try someone else and put themselves in a tough spot. Marsh is merely a poor man's Green to them, biding time til Green is back.
To be clear, I think its wrong, but that I believe is their process.
I'd honestly love an Aussie to run through him when he's at bat, given the precedent they can only be fined 20% anyway so go for it. The problem is we don't really have any mongrels in this side. Wish Warner or Haddin had been out there.
Ford Fairlane
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I knew someone would bring up the Lillee-Miandad confrontation and that was stupid by Lillee too, he tried to be a smart-arse and the situation spiralled out of control with two hot-head divas involved. But at least Greg Chappell went in there and spoke to Lillee, unlike the Indian captain with Kohli.
Ford Fairlane
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Kohli is getting the treatment from the crowd.
Michael Vaughan on Kayo talking up the Adelaide Crows has just ruined this test for me.
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Konstas to etch himself into Australian cricket Folklore? The Greek God Sam ‘Adonis’ Konstas
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