News Crows Press Conference - The Fallout Continues *now with poll*

[DJ75]

I really hope Pyke doesn't become a fall guy for this. He's got enough credit in the bank and has shown awareness that he didn't get it right this year - he seems suitably chastened by the ongoing fallout and he's got the ability to get us back on track - as far as I'm concerned he's still in the black overall.

My big concern from that is - who were they trying to lay the blame on? Was it Pyke? Is he being set up as the fall guy? Are Burton and Fagan attempting to distance themselves to lay it all on Pyke and Hass?
I really didn't like how convinced Carey was that neither Burton or Fagan was involved. He has clearly been told this by someone with strong connections that he trusts. It smelt very, very bad.

 

[feenix67]

I find it interesting the Roo has fed Duck the line that Fagan and Burton had little to do with the camp, when the club was at pains to assure everyone (including Shutts to me) that the club had done it's due diligence and that it had been signed off at all levels and run through the "integrity committee".

It's pretty clear that the club are trying to shield Burton and Fagan from responsibility (blame) on this. OK, so they want to stick fat and learn from their mistakes. Let's hope they do.

 

[Scorpus]

What if I told you that Fagan sat down with some of the media earlier in the year and went through the full camp program with them. That they asked "is that it?" and when told yes, shook their head confused. Said journalist went back to their paper and spoke to the editor, explaining what the camp was really about and was told "find another angle - that story won't attract clicks".
The journalist rang Fagan and apologised, explaining that it is clicks or die in the media.

There are media who know the story (at least the story Fagan told them - whether it is the FULL story is still up for some debate). They just write to attract interest. There is no truth in the media anymore.

Why would Fagan privately inform the media what happened on the camp but then let misleading, inaccurate and damaging stories run wild with no official, public response through our official channels or at a press conference?

Seems pretty pathetic to inform the media what really happened in private only to throw up their hands in defeat when they don't publish that info and continue to spread "lies"

"We're willing to tell our story privately, and you can publish it if you want, but if you don't, we'll give up, not release the info ourselves and let the rumors run free"

 

[Donkey Magoo]

I was really worried about the offseason being really boring.

Whether you believe reports of the camps significance or not, the clubs failure to properly manage this isn't arguable.

We were obviously leaking back at the start of the season when the story first came to light. Our position of denial and burying our head in the sand was more likely arrogance than incompetence.

With their industry understanding of Caroline Wilson and her status in the media and AFL generally, did they really believe she would just go away? That with the leaks she did find would just be abondoned because we refused to comment.

Of course the very fact we were not prepared to cooperate and get ahead of the story, would have been a red rag to a journalist. Instead of working with her and managing it, we gave her cause to dig deeper, find more leaks. All the while our steadfast denial anything was wrong drove player discontent.

The ridiculous presser mud year didn't cut it of course, and finally, post season, there is some recognition at the b&f awards.

It was only a 2-3 years ago that we were forging a relationship with Wilson and Fairfax, using them to our advantage. That we somehow thought freezing her out when she clearly had her own sources, was a gross error of judgment and has been the biggest contributor to this festering sore.

Authors of our own misfortune

So. Much. This.

 

[marvin]

The difference is players wanting to explore free agency or join other clubs isn't damaging to the Crows. There's no need to respond to rumors that happen to every club every year.

Apart from the fact that there's a narrative that's been long established that there must be something wrong with the club because there are perceived retention issues.

​

Letting allegations run wild of tying players to trees, verbally abusing them, being culturally insensitive, etc. IS damaging. Those are the allegations any sane organization would stop dead in its tracks

I think the club has partially acknowledged the cultural insensitivity issues. It's absolutely shameful that it happened, it's stained the reputation of the club, and it makes me sick. The only thing I can do is hope the mitigation efforts were at least partially successful.

But lets quote Caro. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...adelaide-s-wasted-season-20180831-p500zr.html

"Some allegations of what took place are weird. Some are horrifying. Officials have repeatedly denied certain bizarre behaviours and rituals took place but refuse to respond to direct questions about others."​

So the club has repeatedly denied things happened. Caro's very carefully been non-specific here, so that she can't be held accountable if something is denied, yet can claim credit if something "bizarre" is confirmed. I'm not sure what the club is supposed to do to stop this "dead in its tracks".

The professional journalists in Caro and McClure are being vague, which suggests they don't have enough evidence to publish. Rowe can't decide what he believes. As far as I can work out, the only person bandying about allegations involving trees is Chocco, and he's hardly a dispassionate analyst when ito comes to Adelaide.

 

[AndrewJo]

Now you’re just talking shit

Is he?

 

[Mike Smyth]

I find it interesting the Roo has fed Duck the line that Fagan and Burton had little to do with the camp, when the club was at pains to assure everyone (including Shutts to me) that the club had done it's due diligence and that it had been signed off at all levels and run through the "integrity committee".

It's pretty clear that the club are trying to shield Burton and Fagan from responsibility (blame) on this. OK, so they want to stick fat and learn from their mistakes. Let's hope they do.

"let's move on, we've learnt our lesson". However their mistakes were in a rare premiership window - it's a pretty big lesson.

 

[DJ75]

Why would Fagan privately inform the media what happened on the camp but then let misleading, inaccurate and damaging stories run wild with no official, public response through our official channels or at a press conference?

Seems pretty pathetic to inform the media what really happened in private only to throw up their hands in defeat when they don't publish that info and continue to spread "lies"

"We're willing to tell our story privately, and you can publish it if you want, but if you don't, we'll give up, not release the info ourselves and let the rumors run free"

Why? That I don't know. All I know* is that Fagan had this conversation with a journalist based here in Adelaide and that was the response.


*At least that is what Fagan told me happened.

 

[Geoffa32]

It pains me to say it but McClure makes a fair point there - it defies belief that the Head of Football would have no knowledge of a program encompassing the entire playing list and coaching staff. Amazing that Carey (and by proxy Roo) would run with that line and expect to not get called on it.

It is worse on Burton that he supposedly didnt know.

Makes him look even more incompetent.


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[Vhaluus]

What if I told you that Fagan sat down with some of the media earlier in the year and went through the full camp program with them. That they asked "is that it?" and when told yes, shook their head confused. Said journalist went back to their paper and spoke to the editor, explaining what the camp was really about and was told "find another angle - that story won't attract clicks".
The journalist rang Fagan and apologised, explaining that it is clicks or die in the media.

There are media who know the story (at least the story Fagan told them - whether it is the FULL story is still up for some debate). They just write to attract interest. There is no truth in the media anymore. Ultimately it is stupid though, as by consistently lying, the media are going to destroy their own field. Once the average schmuck realises journalist have zero credibility, why would a newspaper pay for a journalist when you can get a story from anyone. It doesn't need to be researched or investigated or truthful. Blog boys will become the new journalist.

I find it far more likely that Fagan has omitted just how much he omitted from his sit down with said journalist and that what actually happened is the journalist wasn't actually as dumb as Fagan tried to treat him.

 

[Scorpus]

Apart from the fact that there's a narrative that's been long established that there must be something wrong with the club because there are perceived retention issues.

​

I think the club has partially acknowledged the cultural insensitivity issues. It's absolutely shameful that it happened, it's stained the reputation of the club, and it makes me sick. The only thing I can do is hope the mitigation efforts were at least partially successful.

But lets quote Caro. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...adelaide-s-wasted-season-20180831-p500zr.html

"Some allegations of what took place are weird. Some are horrifying. Officials have repeatedly denied certain bizarre behaviours and rituals took place but refuse to respond to direct questions about others."​

So the club has repeatedly denied things happened. Caro's very carefully been non-specific here, so that she can't be held accountable if something is denied, yet can claim credit if something "bizarre" is confirmed. I'm not sure what the club is supposed to do to stop this "dead in its tracks".

The professional journalists in Caro and McClure are being vague, which suggests they don't have enough evidence to publish. Rowe can't decide what he believes. As far as I can work out, the only person bandying about allegations involving trees is Chocco, and he's hardly a dispassionate analyst when ito comes to Adelaide.

Here are some of the specifics in this article: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...hes-with-collective-mind-20180827-p5003j.html

"Woulfe claimed that senior administrators and the club doctor “signed off” on the camp before it happened. But in reality Dr Marc Cesana – one of the most respected doctors in the league – had no knowledge of the details of the camp."​

"Over the course of the three-day camp, players felt coerced into sharing some of their darkest secrets and deepest fears, with many breaking down in tears in front of their teammates."​

"Several players remained scarred by the events of the camp and are continuing to seek counselling."​

From: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...adelaide-s-wasted-season-20180831-p500zr.html

"Adelaide welfare boss Emma Barr, who was singled out by Walker for her outstanding pastoral care following the death of coach Phil Walsh, was also marginalised and kept away from the camp."

"Allegations that Cesana’s report was presented to Burton but took too long to reach chief executive Fagan or the board were met with a ''no comment’' this week."​

From: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/a-...k=6e47a011db750a5378882902f1dae9ec-1536036841

"It’s believed the Adelaide Crows Board was not informed about the Gold Coast training camp and was only notified when at least one frustrated senior player mentioned it."

"players were asked to complete emotionally upsetting questionnaires, as well as a variety of tasks that sources say also had at least one assistant coach questioning the merits of the mental elements of the camp."​

From: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...r-the-crows-cultish-camp-20180406-p4z84b.html

"There are various versions from the Adelaide hierarchy regarding whether Betts was allowed to remain in contact with his wife Anna, at home with the couple’s two young children and pregnant with twins. Suffice to say deep dissatisfaction still lingers among the Betts family as a result of what took place."​

"One reportedly involved the use of a so-called sacred symbol, another being restricted from remaining in touch with family and a third was at least one highly confronting — for some — ritual exercise. But it was not only that section of footballers who were unhappy with what took place. At least two coaches felt uncomfortable with some of what took place."​

"Last week the fragile mental state of at least one player remained a source of major concern to his family and friends."​

None of this stuff has ever been addressed directly by the club, at least not to the extent where it's clear what actually happened. The only thing that has been directly addressed is:

1. There were some unspecified culturally insensitive elements of the camp that were addressed
2. Some players were blindfolded for a short period of time
3. The Richmond song was not played on the bus
4. Various unspecified remarks about how some players enjoyed the camp and others did not

 

[mattymac]

Well Knight and CEY have put up some pro-AFC posts on the 'gram in the last 24hrs.
That to me looks like a big middle finger to the rumour mongers in the media. Especially Knight's post.

Can't believe the knight rumour at all. AFC is his heart and soul

 

[mattymac]

Jars also said that Brouch wasn't happy either.
I wonder how accurate those comments are ??

I'm still waiting at the airport for Clarko

 

[jackster83]

It is worse on Burton that he supposedly didnt know.

Makes him look even more incompetent.


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[Smoooothy]

It's pretty clear that the club are trying to shield Burton and Fagan from responsibility (blame) on this. OK, so they want to stick fat and learn from their mistakes. Let's hope they do.

if they survive - which is looking pretty likely, nothing short of a premiership will be satisfactory for this stuffup

 

[DJ75]

Can't believe the knight rumour at all. AFC is his heart and soul

I can tell you that last season Knight was signed late on in the piece. He was being offered low $$$ value by the Crows and was given the impression he was 'not essential' (my words not his). Knight and his manager had started shopping around for other offers and had received several from Victoria before he was offered a decent deal by the Crows (I suspect once they knew Floggy McFlog was going to Melbourne).

It may just be that the rumours of those contacts has spread in to the media and they are confusing this year with last year. Or that those offers are still in place and they are considering options. I don't know, but I really hope he doesn't go anywhere.

 

[Tex Danger]

I can tell you that last season Knight was signed late on in the piece. He was being offered low $$$ value by the Crows and was given the impression he was 'not essential' (my words not his). Knight and his manager had started shopping around for other offers and had received several from Victoria before he was offered a decent deal by the Crows (I suspect once they knew Floggy McFlog was going to Melbourne).

It may just be that the rumours of those contacts has spread in to the media and they are confusing this year with last year. Or that those offers are still in place and they are considering options. I don't know, but I really hope he doesn't go anywhere.

he put a pretty positive insta post about the club/group so unless that was a fond veiled farewell id say theres no truth to the rumours

 

[mattymac]

I can tell you that last season Knight was signed late on in the piece. He was being offered low $$$ value by the Crows and was given the impression he was 'not essential' (my words not his). Knight and his manager had started shopping around for other offers and had received several from Victoria before he was offered a decent deal by the Crows (I suspect once they knew Floggy McFlog was going to Melbourne).

It may just be that the rumours of those contacts has spread in to the media and they are confusing this year with last year. Or that those offers are still in place and they are considering options. I don't know, but I really hope he doesn't go anywhere.

Whenever any of our coaches talk knight is best 22. They really rate him and have obviously been grooming him as our tagger/pest.

I think he really showed his value this year when he came in too.

Just can't see it happening now.

 

[marvin]

Here are some of the specifics in this article: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...hes-with-collective-mind-20180827-p5003j.html

"Woulfe claimed that senior administrators and the club doctor “signed off” on the camp before it happened. But in reality Dr Marc Cesana – one of the most respected doctors in the league – had no knowledge of the details of the camp."​

"Over the course of the three-day camp, players felt coerced into sharing some of their darkest secrets and deepest fears, with many breaking down in tears in front of their teammates."​

"Several players remained scarred by the events of the camp and are continuing to seek counselling."​

From: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...adelaide-s-wasted-season-20180831-p500zr.html

"Adelaide welfare boss Emma Barr, who was singled out by Walker for her outstanding pastoral care following the death of coach Phil Walsh, was also marginalised and kept away from the camp."

"Allegations that Cesana’s report was presented to Burton but took too long to reach chief executive Fagan or the board were met with a ''no comment’' this week."​

From: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/a-...k=6e47a011db750a5378882902f1dae9ec-1536036841

"It’s believed the Adelaide Crows Board was not informed about the Gold Coast training camp and was only notified when at least one frustrated senior player mentioned it."

"players were asked to complete emotionally upsetting questionnaires, as well as a variety of tasks that sources say also had at least one assistant coach questioning the merits of the mental elements of the camp."​

From: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...r-the-crows-cultish-camp-20180406-p4z84b.html

"There are various versions from the Adelaide hierarchy regarding whether Betts was allowed to remain in contact with his wife Anna, at home with the couple’s two young children and pregnant with twins. Suffice to say deep dissatisfaction still lingers among the Betts family as a result of what took place."​

"One reportedly involved the use of a so-called sacred symbol, another being restricted from remaining in touch with family and a third was at least one highly confronting — for some — ritual exercise. But it was not only that section of footballers who were unhappy with what took place. At least two coaches felt uncomfortable with some of what took place."​

"Last week the fragile mental state of at least one player remained a source of major concern to his family and friends."​

None of this stuff has ever been addressed directly by the club, at least not to the extent where it's clear what actually happened. The only thing that has been directly addressed is:

1. There were some unspecified culturally insensitive elements of the camp that were addressed
2. Some players were blindfolded for a short period of time
3. The Richmond song was not played on the bus
4. Various unspecified remarks about how some players enjoyed the camp and others did not

So where are the allegations of being tied to trees and/or being verbally abused? As pointed out, that seems to be only on the Chocco hotline. I'm no happier than anyone else about season 2018, but I'm also not inclined to believe everything reported by Scoop McClure or other intrepid reporters.

Incidentally, there's a curious nugget from Caro on Saturday.

Another player, Kyle Hartigan, who claims he suffered damaging cuts to his knees as a result of what took place and missed games as a result, is in talks with the club regarding his contractual match-trigger clauses.
​

which sounds terrible, except I can't see that Hartigan missed games due to cuts on his knees. He didn't play JLT1 (but wasn't listed as injured), played JLT2 against Port; played Rounds 1-4 and then pinged a hammy early in Round 5. Unless Hartigan is gutted to have missed AFLX, I'm not sure what's the basis of this.

 

[Tex Danger]

So where are the allegations of being tied to trees and/or being verbally abused? As pointed out, that seems to be only on the Chocco hotline. I'm no happier than anyone else about season 2018, but I'm also not inclined to believe everything reported by Scoop McClure or other intrepid reporters.

Incidentally, there's a curious nugget from Caro on Saturday.

Another player, Kyle Hartigan, who claims he suffered damaging cuts to his knees as a result of what took place and missed games as a result, is in talks with the club regarding his contractual match-trigger clauses.
​

which sounds terrible, except I can't see that Hartigan missed games due to cuts on his knees. He didn't play JLT1 (but wasn't listed as injured), played JLT2 against Port; played Rounds 1-4 and then pinged a hammy early in Round 5. Unless Hartigan is gutted to have missed AFLX, I'm not sure what's the basis of this.

that one is thought to be a mistake and be referring to Cheney

 

[WetCrow1991]

Why is Burton worth protecting beyond being mates with Roo? Is there anything else? He isn't well educated in his field, he does not have a good career track record, and he hasn't performed in his current role.

As always it is a matter of having another go at the Crows, 'only one bad year' they say. The Crows and their media lackeys twist and turn to frame these trends as events all for allowing successive chances for personnel that repeatedly fail.

It is so piss weak.

 

[marvin]

that one is thought to be a mistake and be referring to Cheney

That makes even less sense. The camp finished on February 2 and Cheney was presented with the AFLX trophy on February 15.

 

[Scrogdogg]

Why is Burton worth protecting beyond being mates with Roo? Is there anything else? He isn't well educated in his field, he does not have a good career track record, and he hasn't performed in his current role.

As always it is a matter of having another go at the Crows, 'only one bad year' they say. The Crows and their media lackeys twist and turn to frame these trends as events all for allowing successive chances for personnel that repeatedly fail.

It is so piss weak.

'By and large' we have the right people in place. Unchanging 'once more unto the breach'...........

 

[craig crowing]

for those interested in the Carey and McClure talk on Talking football.

un

for those interested in the Carey and McClure talk on Talking football.

Holy hell one of AFL legends just a puppet for Roo. How embarrasing ,it was skin crawling especially when trying to say Burton had nothing to with CM and the camp. When he brought CM group to club and was put up to press conference to explain and in his case lie and try to cover.

 

[Tex Danger]

That makes even less sense. The camp finished on February 2 and Cheney was presented with the AFLX trophy on February 15.

Good point

There was a suggestion that Cheney was in dispute about his injury management costing him meeting a contract trigger clause

When the article came out I think many assumed the mistaken name and that the 2 rumours were related but based on your point that can’t be the case