News Crows Press Conference - The Fallout Continues *now with poll*

[feenix67]

I lean towards agreement regarding the physical aspects this year. Injuries could have been prevented or managed better. Though injuries/health is not an exact science but in saying this we certainly can do better.

The mental training aspect is a lot harder to predict, because applying a Camp to an entire group, can't please everyone involved. There are bound to be differences where personalities, cultural aspects, underlying mental health conditions will all factor in different results for different players. Psychological training will not cater for all, and the players need to buy in on the sales-pitch. The club could perhaps be blamed for more due diligence, but I honestly can't see any major faults of the club for trying something different.

I've dealt with many people involved who had counseling from counselors, psychologists and psychiatrists. Some prefer to stop counseling or seek another person, due to various personality differences. So despite what the mainstream think of sports psychologists being a necessary link with mental training, there are no guarantees players will lap it up and improve for many reasons.

You're just going around in circles mate.

The issue is not what we tried to do, it's who we engaged to do it and how it was implemented.

We sent an Assistant Coach to go and "try it out". That, plus Burton's recommendation, was all the due diligence we did. In any professional organisation, having rigorous checks and balances around the selection of outsource partners is a key element of your risk management framework.

Again, this is the crux of the argument.

The Crows are a professional organisation in the field of elite sport. Further, they have a stated desire to develop "the best football program in the country". There are no shortcuts available to achieve that. You have to engage the right people, have the appropriate decision makers in place, assign the appropriate level of funding and have a solid risk management strategy to underpin all of it.

The Crows have shown they don't have any of that. They have shown arrogance, a lack of transparency and a consistent desire to "do things on the cheap". They don't have the appropriate checks and balances in place, they don't appear to make good appointments and, clearly, their budget does not allocate funds appropriately, in order to achieve their stated goal regarding the football program.

You can argue around in circles about what happened when and get distracted by the media bullshit as much as you want, but you can't argue the points I've made above, and it's those points that people are pissed off about.

Hopefully the appointment of Saunders and the reallocation of funds in order to better utilise injury management systems are signs that we may have learnt from the mistakes of this season. The issue many have is that the same people are driving the car. It remains to be seen whether the same people who stuffed it up can fix the mess, and (more importantly) whether the club can start behaving like the elite professional sporting organisation it claims to be.

 

[Red mist]

You're just going around in circles mate.

The issue is not what we tried to do, it's who we engaged to do it and how it was implemented.

We sent an Assistant Coach to go and "try it out". That, plus Burton's recommendation, was all the due diligence we did. In any professional organisation, having rigorous checks and balances around the selection of outsource partners is a key element of your risk management framework.

Again, this is the crux of the argument.

The Crows are a professional organisation in the field of elite sport. Further, they have a stated desire to develop "the best football program in the country". There are no shortcuts available to achieve that. You have to engage the right people, have the appropriate decision makers in place, assign the appropriate level of funding and have a solid risk management strategy to underpin all of it.

The Crows have shown they don't have any of that. They have shown arrogance, a lack of transparency and a consistent desire to "do things on the cheap". They don't have the appropriate checks and balances in place, they don't appear to make good appointments and, clearly, their budget does not allocate funds appropriately, in order to achieve their stated goal regarding the football program.

You can argue around in circles about what happened when and get distracted by the media bullshit as much as you want, but you can't argue the points I've made above, and it's those points that people are pissed off about.

Hopefully the appointment of Saunders and the reallocation of funds in order to better utilise injury management systems are signs that we may have learnt from the mistakes of this season. The issue many have is that the same people are driving the car. It remains to be seen whether the same people who stuffed it up can fix the mess, and (more importantly) whether the club can start behaving like the elite professional sporting organisation it claims to be.

Kudos.
Probably one of the best things I’ve read on this site by a true supporter.
Well done that man.

 

[jaxx]

It's a silly argument mate, 5-2 is our second best start. It's not wrong to say this.

I know I'm not welcome here and this argument has already been won beyond all doubt but at 1.30am sometimes you just can't let something go.

So John, in 500 years from now when the Crows have had 25 7-0 starts, 84 6-1 starts, and 3 6-1-1 starts that would mean that 2018 was still the Crows' fourth best start to a year in their 530ish-year history, would it?!

 

[Red mist]

I know I'm not welcome here and this argument has already been won beyond all doubt but at 1.30am sometimes you just can't let something go.

So John, in 500 years from now when the Crows have had 25 7-0 starts, 84 6-1 starts, and 3 6-1-1 starts that would mean that 2018 was still the Crows' fourth best start to a year in their 530ish-year history, would it?!

Exactly.
It’s not how you start but how you finish hey.

 

[King Elvis]

Crows are doing small target politics.

Bury your head in the sand, don’t make any noise, and hope it blows over.

It was pathetic when the State Liberal Party did it, it’s pathetic for then AFC to do it.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I know I'm not welcome here and this argument has already been won beyond all doubt but at 1.30am sometimes you just can't let something go.

So John, in 500 years from now when the Crows have had 25 7-0 starts, 84 6-1 starts, and 3 6-1-1 starts that would mean that 2018 was still the Crows' fourth best start to a year in their 530ish-year history, would it?!

Crows lose Round 1 next year

Chin up guys - this is our 2nd best start EVER!

 

[FR0GGY]

Crows lose Round 1 next year

Chin up guys - this is our 2nd best start EVER!

Lose 2 in a row,it’s ok boys it’s still out 3rd best start ever.

 

[jenny61_99]

Big deal.

One thing I’ve learned in my 57 years of life is that mathematicians often lack common sense.

 

[jenny61_99]

So why do that sort of camp in the first place when there was a solid galvanised fabric. Ridiculous idea. Too soon after 2015. Showed lack of trust and a division. Show me a club that tries to fix something by making a gap wider. A franchise?

Not a ridiculous idea. People in here have been calling us mentally weak for YEARS. Finally, Pyke recognises this and asks his team to find a solution. CM comes up. A coach is sent to experience the program - they didn’t just send the team sight unseen. In hindsight, they should have sent a group of coaches because then you get the gamut of reactions. Pyke had the absolute right idea. CM program didn’t work how they wanted it to so they decide to change tack. So one thing doesn’t work, do you walk away or try to find another solution? I hope they continue to search for different ways to mentally strengthen our lads. But I hope that if it fails they are more forthright to accept responsibility. For all the shortcomings of the CM camp, it was the injuries, injury management and fitness programme that did all the damage this year. The CM stuff is a handy distraction. All of our focus should be on THAT program, not a three day frigging camp that may or may not have helped our players.

 

[John Who]

I know I'm not welcome here and this argument has already been won beyond all doubt but at 1.30am sometimes you just can't let something go.

So John, in 500 years from now when the Crows have had 25 7-0 starts, 84 6-1 starts, and 3 6-1-1 starts that would mean that 2018 was still the Crows' fourth best start to a year in their 530ish-year history, would it?!

I’ve explained this 1 page before

Ok 5-2 debate lovers..

After 7 rounds, there are 2 takes on the 5-2 result:
1. Best score - the second best ever.
2. Best ranking year - (taking into account score percentages) probably 6th to 8th best ever.

There you go, thank me later!

There are 2 perspectives you can have - best score versus best ranking. The argument doesn’t revolve around the Maths but more so the context/perspective.

 

[John Who]

Crows lose Round 1 next year

Chin up guys - this is our 2nd best start EVER!

By the same token, should we blame this coming preseason camp/activity from 1 game and call it a “disaster”?

What if we go on to win 5 of the next 6 games, should we then call the camp a “disaster”?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

By the same token, should we blame this coming preseason camp/activity from 1 game and call it a “disaster”?

What if we go on to win 5 of the next 6 games, should we then call the camp a “disaster”?

How about the camp was a disaster but just wasn't impactful enough for the runners up from the previous year to instantly start dropping games to the bottom teams, therefore the start was irrelevant?

 

[John Who]

Not a ridiculous idea. People in here have been calling us mentally weak for YEARS. Finally, Pyke recognises this and asks his team to find a solution. CM comes up. A coach is sent to experience the program - they didn’t just send the team sight unseen. In hindsight, they should have sent a group of coaches because then you get the gamut of reactions. Pyke had the absolute right idea. CM program didn’t work how they wanted it to so they decide to change tack. So one thing doesn’t work, do you walk away or try to find another solution? I hope they continue to search for different ways to mentally strengthen our lads. But I hope that if it fails they are more forthright to accept responsibility. For all the shortcomings of the CM camp, it was the injuries, injury management and fitness programme that did all the damage this year. The CM stuff is a handy distraction. All of our focus should be on THAT program, not a three day frigging camp that may or may not have helped our players.

This is absolutely spot on, heckling the club now and beyond about a 3 day camp will just divert the club’s attention. The Media (some sectors) are doing their best to squeeze every last bit of troll juice they can since the mention of “camp disaster” at the start of the year.

 

[FR0GGY]

This is absolutely spot on, heckling the club now and beyond about a 3 day camp will just divert the club’s attention. The Media (some sectors) are doing their best to squeeze every last bit of troll juice they can since the mention of “camp disaster” at the start of the year.

No the attention needs to stay squarely on the club hirachy, they ****ed up (both with this and injuries) and need to be accountable.

 

[John Who]

How about the camp was a disaster but just wasn't impactful enough for the runners up from the previous year to instantly start dropping games to the bottom teams, therefore the start was irrelevant?

That can be said about physical conditioning. With mental conditioning (or deconditioning) it’s more telling of an effect in the immediate weeks after a significant positive or negative stimuli.
Think when someone:
- loses their job
- getting stuck on bills/mortgages for months
- loses a loved one
The effect would be a dip in performance in their usual activities during the time of the event. This was why I chose to talk about the 5-2 start, there was no real dip in performance compared with all other years (bearing in mind also the injuries that were occurring).

 

[Red mist]

Not a ridiculous idea. People in here have been calling us mentally weak for YEARS. Finally, Pyke recognises this and asks his team to find a solution. CM comes up. A coach is sent to experience the program - they didn’t just send the team sight unseen. In hindsight, they should have sent a group of coaches because then you get the gamut of reactions. Pyke had the absolute right idea. CM program didn’t work how they wanted it to so they decide to change tack. So one thing doesn’t work, do you walk away or try to find another solution? I hope they continue to search for different ways to mentally strengthen our lads. But I hope that if it fails they are more forthright to accept responsibility. For all the shortcomings of the CM camp, it was the injuries, injury management and fitness programme that did all the damage this year. The CM stuff is a handy distraction. All of our focus should be on THAT program, not a three day frigging camp that may or may not have helped our players.

After 2015 and the way the playing group galvanised and played the last thing they needed was a forced philosophy of questionable technique. It was happening organically. Yeah you're right. All the **** ups were on the management side. Still are.

 

[John Who]

No the attention needs to stay squarely on the club hirachy, they ****** up (both with this and injuries) and need to be accountable.

The attention should be on the club as a whole, and to see if mistakes can be rectified. There is no guarantee bringing someone new in would bring us success. Particularly IF there are still internal issues scattered everywhere.

 

[John Who]

After 2015 and the way the playing group galvanised and played the last thing they needed was a forced philosophy of questionable technique. It was happening organically. Yeah you're right. All the **** ups were on the management side. Still are.

Are you forgetting that after the GF, fans were screaming more mental toughness, more mongrel?
The club did something which attempted to expand on the mental strength. And just because it didn’t appear to work, it’s the club’s fault for listening to it’s fans?

 

[Red mist]

Are you forgetting that after the GF, fans were screaming more mental toughness, more mongrel?
The club did something which attempted to expand on the mental strength. And just because it didn’t appear to work, it’s the club’s fault for listening to it’s fans?

Mental toughness is accepting the defeat at the pinnacle. Not flogging the players heads after. We only been there three times and won two. Not a bad record. Everyone agrees it's a management balls up.

 

[subaru]

The big fat issue, as far as Im concerned, is this:

subaru jenny61_99 and you freely admit that there were things wrong with the camp, but when pressed, you defend EVERYTHING and call anyone who raises anything negative about the camp "a bed wetter" or something similar.

Soooo.... what do you guys think went wrong with the camp? A talking stick? That's it? What else?

I have not defended the club when FACTS are raised.

Hearsay from posters who claim to know things, does not constitute to me a verification of anything. I regard it the same as the Wilson and Williams claims from last week - they also use their “inside knowledge” to spill nothing other than damaging rumours. And haven’t they back tracked at a million miles an hour!

The over reaction to the extent that posters were talking draft sanctions based on the Wilson and Williams claims, clearly demonstrates a willingness for those people to believe the media but to ignore FACTS such as players re signing.

These same people are the ones that choose to ignore my comment that Burton should be gone - why ? Because the FACT is our fitness programs obviously contributed to injuries.

The issues with the camp - the talking stick seem to have been addressed. Ignored also were the reports directly from players - such as Tex and Sloane who spoke positively about it. More FACTS.

Douglas claimed other issues that contributed to the shit year - but the FACTS of it being a “bit” of a disaster, post GF mental attitude, players coming in not the best shape after the break and the injuries have all been ignored and the words “camp “ and “disaster “ latched onto by the media and yes, the “bed wetters “ on here.

And it wasn’t only Douglas - these issues have been spoken of frequently since pre season
by other players and coaches also.
Douglas wasn’t saying anything new.
On top of this we may be losing one player whose cracked it while re signing nearly a dozen. Another FACT all while winning more games than losing.

Take out the Showdown 1 fiasco and the debacle against Freo and we may have still been playing this month despite a huge number of injuries.

Fagans effort walking to the car
and ignoring the reporter was dreadful - Burton’s press conference was pathetic .

Am I going to melt my membership! No. Am I going to hope that some things change based on a realistic and cool headed review by people that know way more than me - and you - yes.

Am I going to lose my shit on here and act like petulant kids who heard things that clearly could not be true - no.

Will I lose my shit if Tex cops crap because the admin send him out to answer their issues - yes. And I have e mailed the club and included that sentiment in my members e mail.

I’ll leave the picketing with pitchforks to the rest of you.

 

[subaru]

Let me make this simple for you, using some examples

Three players tied for first. Did the next best player come second or fourth? The answer is fourth.

View attachment 555765

Justin Thomas came fourth in the BMW Championship, despite having the third best score. Why? Because two players tied for second.

View attachment 555771

And just on this ^^^^^

Froggy did this yesterday focusing on the “ never ending loop” reference I made regarding the claims how the Richmond song was played on the camp.

Now you’re diverting to the technical interpretation of the claim of second best

Clearly the context of both posts were to demonstrate
1. The claims that the song was played over and over and
2. The start to the season was fine and if the camp had such a detrimental effects surely they would have been notice in the first 6 weeks more

 

[subaru]

I know I'm not welcome here and this argument has already been won beyond all doubt but at 1.30am sometimes you just can't let something go.

So John, in 500 years from now when the Crows have had 25 7-0 starts, 84 6-1 starts, and 3 6-1-1 starts that would mean that 2018 was still the Crows' fourth best start to a year in their 530ish-year history, would it?!

Don’t ya love stats !
Like Port finishing equal bottom in GCS first year. Saved you from the spoon by %

 

[El Doederino]

I’ve explained this 1 page before

There are 2 perspectives you can have - best score versus best ranking. The argument doesn’t revolve around the Maths but more so the context/perspective.

My favourite movie is Gladiator

My second favourite movie is not Gladiator the second time I watched it

I’m with you John. Stay strong buddy.

 

[FR0GGY]

My favourite movie is Gladiator

My second favourite movie is not Gladiator the second time I watched it

I’m with you John. Stay strong buddy.

Except it’s a different movie with the same plot

 

[craig crowing]

The club is in a mess and needs some strong leadership to get back on track which obviously Fagan not going to do but that is not the key role in club that turns on field and team direction around it is the football manager which is Burton .
In his role he is in charge of all coaches , fitness staff and recruiting and player contract setting.
Now this man who got the fitness role after being released by Brisbane due to his friendship and then unbelievably promoted to what is one of top 3 positions within club without doing anything.
Now whether you believe this over hype of camp is overdone or not , the simple truth it has effected our team and split people within our team and coaches and they are facts. We are losing top players and coaches -- WHY .
Now Jenny etc rightfully say that our disastrous pre season- injury prevention and management was a major major factor in season failure.
But have to point out what we all know who is the man responsible for our fitness team and who personally brought our head fitness from that disaster that was Brisbane . Yes our man Burton again.
Now with again key player leaving and need to upgrade assistant coaches who is the man that interview them and reccomends them -- yes that man again.
How is that going .
Well head hunted Francou giving him a long contract , so he disagrees with Burton on camp etc so leaving and can't say Francou wrong as know he is right as camp and fitness proven failure.
So in desperation we pick a ex player who dumped as a coach and nobody wanted who went on radio because was plonked into a defensive coach role and again proven to be failure so much us so was told be SANFl coach or go.
He apparently said going back to Melbourne but guess what nobody wanted so oops to hard to get a decent one ok mate as you a fellow player keep your defensive job. Unbelievable.
Every club that close but had to turn around head hunts the best man for job . whilst we pick a mate who wrecks the club and we do nothing not even a slight demotion. Look we can crap on club about but seriously it hurts to see what going on.