Game Day Crows V Weagles 21 Feb

[BRL121]

I wander why CC, coming in from a rookie spot, managed to get more games than CEY? Maybe he sucked up to the coaches better than CEY, Grigg, Atkins, Lyons and others. The likes of Talia, Brown, Smith, laird and even Sloane did not wait 5-6 seasons before they got 15 games strait in the seniors. Surely it was because they dislodged other senior players. So, as far as I'm concerned, to say that the selectors have got it against the Atkins, knights, CEY and others, is as far fetched as anything. My view is that, up until now, they haven't been able to displace anybody. Even players as bad as Mackay and VB.
There's no other reason. Bloody hell! in the last ten years we had more rookies get to play senior than any other club and still there are people here that say we don't give young players chances.

It's my impression that CEY was unfairly treated last year. It looked like he was rested after good performances and the rest became permanent! Grigg was a bit that way, but perhaps the trampoline accident was taken too seriously. On the other hand, the late restings of rat and Lever were appropriate.

 

[Mong]

It's embarrassnent to Noble. People in the media finally start asking the question and he responds that he's going fine but in a role that the average fan doesn't understand. 2 games later, no change in form, he's dropped on his way to a delisting. And this guy runs our footy dept.

It's foolish to assume Noble's public defense of a player necessarily aligns with his private opinion. Could you imagine him, or anyone in his position, saying "Wright's offering us nothing but Coaches Walsh and Camporeale insist on selecting him every week regardless?" And I guarantee, when selecting Wright for every game he coached, Walsh was not being dictated to by anyone and always had the final call. Noble's public defense of Wright was the right thing to do.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Can't believe there are still people underrating Hartigan, he is in our best 22, get used to it. This is coming from a long time critic as well.

Yeah I've sucked it up. You will find plenty of hartigan bashing if you go back through my post history, but he gets picked at CHB now for mine.

Edit: that's not to say we shouldn't be trying to upgrade on him in the future.

 

[AmericanCrow]

It's purely about objectives, are you set long or short term goals

Head coach objective---win game

That is all that matters.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Head coach objective---win game

That is all that matters.

So let's load Brad Crouch up on painkillers and get him out on the park!

 

[maxlilly]

Head coach objective---win game

That is all that matters.

This is where the club and coach need to be on the same page and not worry so much about winning the next game but putting a plan together to win a premiership.
And thats were making the 8 isn't a goal, as you have to be top 4 to have a chance of winning a grand final.

 

[AmericanCrow]

It truly is astonishing to me that there are folks who apparently are serious in desiring not to make the 8.

Just completely mind boggling on so many levels.

Very glad the organization does not share those sentiments. Very glad indeed.

 

[maxlilly]

Again with the Melbourne and 'play the kids' rubbish. These experienced guys WERE dropped last year and we smashed teams. Was your view of our performances without Wright, VB and Dmac that we resembled Melbourne? What are you actually basing this argument on. Do you not consider that there's a tipping point between experience brought to the game and the actual performance of the player? The coaches eventually made the call, belatedly, but you seem to be suggesting they shouldn't have.

I prefer to see what the Bulldogs have done and think that matches up better with AFC. The Bulldogs let go Griffen, Cooney and Cross, brought in some young guys and did very well last year. And with the game time those young guys got last year, it may give them the chance to improve again this year.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It truly is astonishing to me that there are folks who apparently are serious in desiring not to make the 8.

Just completely mind boggling on so many levels.

Very glad the organization does not share those sentiments. Very glad indeed.

Hawthorn didn't

 

[Tex200]

I think all clubs who know they have a competitive side will start the year with genuine top 4 aspirations. I'm sure we have that goal this year.

Whilst realising that goal remains a mathematical possibility you have to throw the kitchen sink at it. Once that potential is exhausted then, imo, planning should commence immediately for the following year and if that's reflected in selection so be it.

Of course if you end up missing the 4 but, despite planning for next year, remain in the 8 then well and good - play the finals roll the dice. But even then, that whole process should be driven by a "what can we get out of this for next year" mentality.

Making the 8 can never be a goal in and of itself, but no doubt it can be incidental to a crack at the 4.

 

[GROTTO]

We know the reason VB and Mackay get picked all the time. They do every single thing the coaches ask of them and then some.

I really liked and enjoyed reading this post (cut down for brevity) a lot and for most of us in here that have played footy at school or at a Club, know that there is usually these kind of players that will be picked for this reason alone, while it is fine at high school it has no place in a competitive football environment post high school.

It is really the most logical sense as to why the match day committee continue to select our infamous new dynamic duo in VB and 400kay.

 

[Tex200]

I really liked and enjoyed reading this post (cut down for brevity) a lot and for most of us in here that have played footy at school or at a Club, know that there is usually these kind of players that will be picked for this reason alone, while it is fine at high school it has no place in a competitive football environment post high school.

It is really the most logical sense as to why the match day committee continue to select our infamous new dynamic duo in VB and 400kay.

I remember in u/15's we had an award for "Most Attentive at Training".

If we could get the AFC to bring this back you wouldn't fit the bling in either VB or DMac's houses.

 

[maxlilly]

It truly is astonishing to me that there are folks who apparently are serious in desiring not to make the 8.

Just completely mind boggling on so many levels.

Very glad the organization does not share those sentiments. Very glad indeed.

As results have shown over the last 18 years, finishing 5- 8 gives you virtually no chance of making a grand final.
You need to be top 4 and preferably top 2.
No one wants to remember finishing 5-8, its so disheartening over so many years.
Surely as an organisation you want to finish top, and not be satisfied to be just middle of the road all the time.

 

[Jack is Back]

I really liked and enjoyed reading this post (cut down for brevity) a lot and for most of us in here that have played footy at school or at a Club, know that there is usually these kind of players that will be picked for this reason alone, while it is fine at high school it has no place in a competitive football environment post high school.

It is really the most logical sense as to why the match day committee continue to select our infamous new dynamic duo in VB and 400kay.

The good news is that we only have two "marginal" selection players. We used to have a conga line of the bastards.

The reason many of us are so adamant that we should only play vB and DMac if they are clearly the best option (like Thommo and JJ) is that we have a fantastic group of young KIDS. I want to see how Lever, Atkins, Knight, the Crouches, Milera, Grigg and CEY look with 30-50 games under their belt. If Wigg, Dear, McGovern and Doedee are playing good footy then I would also like them to be given a taste this year. I know that we can't play them all but I also know we could squeeze an extra couple into the side if we try hard enough .

The beauty of drafting Menzel, Hampton and Seedsman is they already have games under their belt. If they are fit and their form is good then they will be played. They are not Angus-break-in-an-emergency trades.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

It truly is astonishing to me that there are folks who apparently are serious in desiring not to make the 8.

Just completely mind boggling on so many levels.

Very glad the organization does not share those sentiments. Very glad indeed.

It's unusual to win a grand final when missing the finals the year before.

Need to get in the finals, then start winning finals consistently, then make the top-4 to give the flag a shake.

Making the finals is better than missing anytime, as likely means we are closer to a flag than missing the finals.

 

[1970crow]

It's foolish to assume Noble's public defense of a player necessarily aligns with his private opinion. Could you imagine him, or anyone in his position, saying "Wright's offering us nothing but Coaches Walsh and Camporeale insist on selecting him every week regardless?" And I guarantee, when selecting Wright for every game he coached, Walsh was not being dictated to by anyone and always had the final call. Noble's public defense of Wright was the right thing to do.

But it needs to make sense and ultimately be defensible. He should have said he needs to work on a couple of things but we're backing him in to do that and return to better form. Instead he made it worse by fabricating a role for both him and Dmac. Teague ended up contradicting him by stating flat out that Dmac was not in the best 22 AT THE MOMENT. You can maintain faith in a player and defend them publicly without fabricating rubbish that umtimately make you look a fool.

 

[AmericanCrow]

It's unusual to win a grand final when missing the finals the year before.

Need to get in the finals, then start winning finals consistently, then make the top-4 to give the flag a shake.

Making the finals is better than missing anytime, as likely means we are closer to a flag than missing the finals.

Of course it is better. The nonsense being bantied around here about playing for 2017 and how horrible it is to finish 5th--8th borders on absurdity.

The object of the game is to win. No matter the sport, no matter the level.

Honestly, it is dumbfounding reading some of these posts. I guess the great news for the Cleveland Browns is they should pick up a hell of a lot of South Australian fans this off season. They put into practice nearly everything some posters desire the Crows to do. Those new fans will be pleased to know they have not been in the 8 since 2002 and most assuredly won't be playing for 2016 this season. Enjoy.

 

[1970crow]

As results have shown over the last 18 years, finishing 5- 8 gives you virtually no chance of making a grand final.
You need to be top 4 and preferably top 2.
No one wants to remember finishing 5-8, its so disheartening over so many years.
Surely as an organisation you want to finish top, and not be satisfied to be just middle of the road all the time.

I'm starting to think AmericanCrow might be David Noble.

 

[maxlilly]

I'm starting to think AmericanCrow might be David Noble.

When he started posting, he had some good ideas.
Now he is just posting the company line. More like Phil Harper than Noble i reckon.
Go Crows, let's finish 8th then anything can happen

 

[GROTTO]

While potentially getting a more favorable draw in 2016 would have resulted had we lost in W1 of the finals, I am glad we did beat the Dogs. I think the win was a special way to thank and appreciate the efforts that Walsh had made in progressing us as a football Club. We matured and grew as a Club last September when we not only made the finals through the most incredible challenging of circumstances ever experienced by any AFL Club in the history of the game, but by winning it on opposition turf was another massive win for the Club to win an away final especially against a well respected team in 2015.

 

[1970crow]

It's unusual to win a grand final when missing the finals the year before.

Need to get in the finals, then start winning finals consistently, then make the top-4 to give the flag a shake.

Making the finals is better than missing anytime, as likely means we are closer to a flag than missing the finals.

I think that bears further investigation. My gut feel is that Sydney is the only club to have become a top 4 and genuine challenger with a consistent history of making the 8. I reckon most of the recent top 4 teams and GF challengers arrived after a year or 2 outside the 8, with at least 1 or 2 high draft picks, before ascending the ladder and being consistently high up. I'm not sure any team has legitimately challenged without being fuelled by COLA or having high end draft picks. So I doubt that a strong history of finishing in the bottom area of the 8 is an indicator of future success unless you drink a lot of COLA.

 

[1970crow]

Of course it is better. The nonsense being bantied around here about playing for 2017 and how horrible it is to finish 5th--8th borders on absurdity.

The object of the game is to win. No matter the sport, no matter the level.

Honestly, it is dumbfounding reading some of these posts. I guess the great news for the Cleveland Browns is they should pick up a hell of a lot of South Australian fans this off season. They put into practice nearly everything some posters desire the Crows to do. Those new fans will be pleased to know they have not been in the 8 since 2002 and most assuredly won't be playing for 2016 this season. Enjoy.

I keep reading references from different sports as back up to your argument. I don't know what sport or league these Cleveland Browns play in, but weare talking about the AFL with a draft and a salary cap that rewards teams that finish low with better opportunity to higher end talent. There's no raffle, finishing last gets you pick 1.

If you do want your argument to be taken seriously, because it is rubbish, then you will be able to identify the premiership teams in the last 20 years that didn't include a top 10 draft pick? I know it might be a coincidence or a statistical outlier, but nonetheless, I'd be interested as to what evidence you have that premiership teams don't require high end draft picks and how perpetually finishing around the 6-10 region has resulted in anything other than more of the same.

And before you throw out the 'deliberately losing', 'playing kids for the sake of it' and 'turning into melbourne' rubbish, there is a path to a premiership and it's more complicated than turning up each year with a list capable of making the 8 and seeing what happens in September.

 

[AmericanCrow]

I keep reading references from different sports as back up to your argument. I don't know what sport or league these Cleveland Browns play in, but weare talking about the AFL with a draft and a salary cap that rewards teams that finish low with better opportunity to higher end talent. There's no raffle, finishing last gets you pick 1.

If you do want your argument to be taken seriously, because it is rubbish, then you will be able to identify the premiership teams in the last 20 years that didn't include a top 10 draft pick? I know it might be a coincidence or a statistical outlier, but nonetheless, I'd be interested as to what evidence you have that premiership teams don't require high end draft picks and how perpetually finishing around the 6-10 region has resulted in anything other than more of the same.

And before you throw out the 'deliberately losing', 'playing kids for the sake of it' and 'turning into melbourne' rubbish, there is a path to a premiership and it's more complicated than turning up each year with a list capable of making the 8 and seeing what happens in September.

I have already ad naseum explained my position. I explained exactly why your stance is flawed in rather decent detail. I don't need to regurgitate it again.

You disagree--that is perfectly your right.

Nothing more is to be gained from rehashing arguments already laid out over the last couple days. I am not going to change your stance nor will you change mine.

It is a shame you don't follow the Browns. You would honestly enjoy their philosophy. It perfectly matches your own feelings on how a program should be run. The results certainly speak volumes of that particular route to success.

At any rate, it is all good. The season will play out for us soon enough. The irony is that VB is likely to get dropped if one of the others can actually start to perform consistently. I am always in favor of better talent weeding out lesser talent. At the end of the day the team with the better talent top to bottom generally wins. I am allllllll about winning.

So I hope there comes a day when some of the younger players and others in the SANFL force their way onto the field and stay there. That it hasn't happened yet speaks more to them than anything else.

 

[GrommoT]

... we have a fantastic group of young KIDS. I want to see how Lever, Atkins, Knight, the Crouches, Milera, Grigg and CEY look with 30-50 games under their belt. If Wigg, Dear, McGovern and Doedee are playing good footy then I would also like them to be given a taste this year. I know that we can't play them all but I also know we could squeeze an extra couple into the side if we try hard enough .

The beauty of drafting Menzel, Hampton and Seedsman is they already have games under their belt. If they are fit and their form is good then they will be played. They are not Angus-break-in-an-emergency trades.

I think we may well have the players to be a team on the cusp of a sustained period of challenging for the GF - so much to look forward to in the coming years.

​

 

[ac83]

I don't know what sport or league these Cleveland Browns play in, but weare talking about the AFL with a draft and a salary cap that rewards teams that finish low with better opportunity to higher end talent. There's no raffle, finishing last gets you pick 1.

The Cleveland Browns are an American Football team in the NFL. The NFL , like the AFL, has "a draft and a salary cap that rewards teams that finish low with better opportunity to higher end talent. There's no raffle, finishing last gets you pick 1."