Cummins Overrated?

[PhatBoy]

Jeez that’s a handy list. Marshall and Ambrose would be nearly the first 2 quicks you’d pick for a World XI of the past 50 years. And Garner is something of an overlooked superstar. Big Bird was a magnificent fast bowler.

Marshall, Ambrose, McGrath, Akram and Steyn are the 5 I’d choose from. If Cummins finishes out his career the way he has started it, he will find his way into that company

 

[Power Raid]

Marshall, Ambrose, McGrath, Akram and Steyn are the 5 I’d choose from. If Cummins finishes out his career the way he has started it, he will find his way into that company

when siddle sits above cummins in wickets and not too different in average, suggest cummins needs to do a little more work to be mentioned in the same breath as the best.

hopefully with time!

 

[eth-dog]

when siddle sits above cummins in wickets and not too different in average, suggest cummins needs to do a little more work to be mentioned in the same breath as the best.

hopefully with time!

Siddle averaged 30 at test level, Cummins 22. That's a huge difference in averages.

 

[PhatBoy]

when siddle sits above cummins in wickets and not too different in average, suggest cummins needs to do a little more work to be mentioned in the same breath as the best.

hopefully with time!

A little bit?

Peter Siddle averages 30.

When you consider that around 95 per cent of specialist bowlers - and all rounders for that matter - who’ve played more than 10 tests would average between 20 and 40, claiming that Siddle’s average is ‘not too different’ to pat Cummins, it’s like saying that a batsman that averages 40 has an average ‘not too different’ to Jacques Kallis.

He also takes a wicket 15 balls quicker than Siddle

 

[Power Raid]

A little bit?

Peter Siddle averages 30.

When you consider that around 95 per cent of specialist bowlers - and all rounders for that matter - who’ve played more than 10 tests would average between 20 and 40, claiming that Siddle’s average is ‘not too different’ to pat Cummins, it’s like saying that a batsman that averages 40 has an average ‘not too different’ to Jacques Kallis.

He also takes a wicket 15 balls quicker than Siddle

OOOPS

I followed the line in cricinfo of siddle but grabbed Philander's average (the line above on most wickets taken)

 

[Leeda]

Curry ..Patty doesn’t look comfortable in the el numero uno possitsion…as a voice of the team…

 

[PhatBoy]

OOOPS

I followed the line in cricinfo of siddle but grabbed Philander's average (the line above on most wickets taken)

Philander was a spectacularly skilful bowler - if he had the physical attributes of a guy like Cummins in terms of strength and speed or McGrath in terms of height he would have been basically perfect. His lack of pace and height was a handicap on dead pitches so he’s below the very top tier but if someone said to me ‘you can pick any bowler you’ve ever seen, and you can pick the conditions they bowl in’ I would pick Vernon on a green top ahead of anyone

 

[Cursed Cat]

The bare statistics look decent enough on paper but they won't go anywhere near far enough in measuring Pat Cummins efforts toward winning the Test series in Pakistan.

12 wickets over 6 innings bowling - highlighted by a match-winning haul of 8-79 in the series decider - doesn't look particularly impressive but Cummins was all heart when things weren't going our way, and typically ruthless when the hit was on.

Pakistan was often a batsman's world, but Cummins demonstrated that he commands respect irregardless of conditions.

 

[footyfan1978]

Never change OP. Never change.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

 

[DaRick]

To be fair, for quite a while, there were legitimate questions as to whether he'd actually get on the park enough to have a Test career of any note. Plus, his initial action IMO wasn't sustainable and his subsequent injuries were not a surprise to me.

That said, there's no doubt that he was exceptionally gifted. You don't bowl like he did at Johannesburg as a teenager without incredible talent, and the way he set up Jacques Kallis and bluffed Morne Morkel (had him hang back and then threw in a quick yorker) was exceptionally intelligent given his inexperience.

There's another thing I should have mentioned - while he would definitely be a threat on the subcontinent, his use of reverse swing to dismiss Buttler and Wood at the SCG shocked me. I didn't know he had that in his armoury, because he doesn't really rely on swing to take wickets. I saw Cummins as someone who relied on pace, accuracy, persistence and an awkward action, rather than an exceptional command of seam and swing. I may have underestimated him in that regard.

A portent of things to come, with hindsight.

Used reverse to absolutely lethal effect in the match just gone and sporadically achieved it in Karachi, as well.

Just an incredible bowler.

His decision to team up with Starc and blast away PAK's vulnerable lower order was spot on, and his declaration was ultimately vindicated. The first gave us a real shot at winning; the second arguably sealed it.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

A portent of things to come, with hindsight.

Used reverse to absolutely lethal effect in the match just gone and sporadically achieved it in Karachi, as well.

Just an incredible bowler.

His decision to team up with Starc and blast away PAK's vulnerable lower order was spot on, and his declaration was ultimately vindicated. The first gave us a real shot at winning; the second arguably sealed it.

Totally with you, never saw him as a swing bowler but it just proves he really has it all

 

[Blue1980]

Pat Cummins bowled 39 overs in his first innings back after six years out with injuries. Bowled another 30 in the first innings a week later.

FWIW, Hazlewood bowled 44 overs and 25 in those same innings.

How many total overs were there? Reid bowled 37 out of 123 overs.

If I remember correctly okeefe bowled like 76 overs in that same innings Cummins bowled 39?

 

[Marcel Proust]

Pat Cummins bowling on absolute roads in Pakistan, still has 9 wickets @27.

22.5 bowling average

 

[Marcel Proust]

53 average with the bat too

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Bloke is just an unreal cricketer.

 

[Gethelred]

... if someone said to me ‘you can pick any bowler you’ve ever seen, and you can pick the conditions they bowl in’ I would pick Vernon on a green top ahead of anyone

James Anderson on a green top with an overcast sky.

 

[Gough]

Philander was a spectacularly skilful bowler - if he had the physical attributes of a guy like Cummins in terms of strength and speed or McGrath in terms of height he would have been basically perfect. His lack of pace and height was a handicap on dead pitches so he’s below the very top tier but if someone said to me ‘you can pick any bowler you’ve ever seen, and you can pick the conditions they bowl in’ I would pick Vernon on a green top ahead of anyone

Marshall playing for Kwazulu Natal on the green mamba at Kingsmead.

 

[Pippen94]

Were Warne & McGrath overrated too?!

 

[PhatBoy]

James Anderson on a green top with an overcast sky.

He’d certainly be in the mix. I’d still take Vern though

 

[PhatBoy]

Marshall playing for Kwazulu Natal on the green mamba at Kingsmead.

THAT would have been a sight

 

[big_e]

How many total overs were there? Reid bowled 37 out of 123 overs.

If I remember correctly okeefe bowled like 76 overs in that same innings Cummins bowled 39?

210 overs.

 

[Gethelred]

Bump...

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Philander was a spectacularly skilful bowler - if he had the physical attributes of a guy like Cummins in terms of strength and speed or McGrath in terms of height he would have been basically perfect. His lack of pace and height was a handicap on dead pitches so he’s below the very top tier but if someone said to me ‘you can pick any bowler you’ve ever seen, and you can pick the conditions they bowl in’ I would pick Vernon on a green top ahead of anyone

I’d pick Curtly after being told to remove his wristbands.

On any deck.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

225 wickets @ just under 22.

Coming up with match winning innings with the bat in the clutch in the Ashes.