Daisy Vs Xavier Ellis

[ChipDouglas]

I missed the point entirely ?

S'pose I should have implemented some inverted commas.

At the risk of being a "moron", there's an entire solar system between the profile cultivated for Dale Thomas and that of the likes of your captain, Lockyer and other class acts such as Clement and Wakelin.

You can go back and re-read my post if you choose to, but you've failed to comprehend it if you think I said that Thomas' profile has had some sort of effect on his football.

What you fail to comprehend is that our football department has no interest in his profile. The club does not have him up in front of press conferences. He is simply a popular figure with our supporter base because of how he plays the game. It doesn't grate that people are jealous of Daisy but what is annoying are those who think the club has pushed him up front and center before he's had chance to mature and develop as you put it, this is known as a misconception.

 

[JohnD]

What you fail to comprehend is that our football department has no interest in his profile. The club does not have him up in front of press conferences. He is simply a popular figure with our supporter base because of how he plays the game. It doesn't grate that people are jealous of Daisy but what is annoying are those who think the club has pushed him up front and center before he's had chance to mature and develop as you put it, this is known as a misconception.

Yep, sure.

 

[MagpieGirl_13]

Yep, sure.

That's hot!

 

[Godfrey Jones]

Yep, sure.

Yep, you're absolutely right. He is the only player at the club to get a photo taken

 

[Bay Pie]

Very happy with the Daisy drafting.

He is a match winner.

Ellis, and Murphy for that matter, will most likely average, more possessions a game then Daisy as they play different roles.

Daisy has won games off his own boot (kicking crucial goals late in the game). Those types of players are rare. Players who can rack up heaps of possessions are not as rare.

I personally would like to see him play in the middle more, but the coaches know more then I, so I presume that a plan is in place.

 

[ChipDouglas]

Yep, you're absolutely right. He is the only player at the club to get a photo taken

JohnD can't make the distinction between the football department and merchandising which are two very separate entities. But he does illustrate the point about him being popular, here's a Hawthorn supporter digging up and posting photos of him.

 

[Ole Gill]

Very happy with the Daisy drafting.

He is a match winner.

Ellis, and Murphy for that matter, will most likely average, more possessions a game then Daisy as they play different roles.

Daisy has won games off his own boot (kicking crucial goals late in the game). Those types of players are rare. Players who can rack up heaps of possessions are not as rare.

I personally would like to see him play in the middle more, but the coaches know more then I, so I presume that a plan is in place.

I'm not weighing into the Thomas v Ellis debate, but this attitude is ridiculous. Who cares about a bloke who kicks the odd freakish goal to win a game when you midfield is struggling to win the rest of the game?

Some things in this game are crucial, and some are luxuries.

 

[AtomicCounty]

ellis is an accumulator and thomas is the matchwinner.

ellis will probly end his career as the scotty west type, ball winner and consistent. almost a lock for 25+ a game. better user of the ball with the ability to link from half back.

thomas is a red time player. will end his career avg. 20 p's and 2 goals a game. he is the player you want with the ball in the last five minutes for some ignition.

ellis should be compared with penders.

 

[Neville Bartos]

I wouldn't be worrying yet Pie fans. Thomas has already brought heaps to your team in his 4th year at the club whereas Ellis is only starting to have an effect on games. Ellis has alot of catching up to do, but we're happy with his progress

 

[BEEG]

Thomas by a mile. Xavier may have the occasional good game, but Thomas is a game breaker. Each is inconsistent at this stage of their career.

Game breaker when where in front

 

[Leather Poisoning]

It's hard to say.

Was Ellis younger than Daisy when they were drafted? Ellis was extremely raw. EXTREMELY raw.

I think the hawks have managed this guy to perfection and now he is at a level where he can influence games. The encouraging thing is that he puts in with fear and tenacity even when the hawks are on the back foot. He just doesn't stop.

Daisy on the other hand was whisked straight into senior footy, did some flashy things here and there (as you'd expect from a high draft pick in their first two seasons playing an obscure position). Has gotten wide attention for 3 reasons:

1. Plays for Collingwood
2. Flies for high marks and tries on the freak goals
3. High draft pick.

Ellis only ticks one of these boxes and so will always be hard to compare.

With my Hawthorn glasses on I'll say "I'm happy with Ellis because he's been cultivated into a consistent performer that plays his heart out 4 quarters every week. He is starting to influence games and at his current rate of progress will be a regular match winner with another 1 or 2 pre-seasons."

I'd consider Ellis v Bryce Gibbs a more apt comparisoin, FWIW.

 

[DWil6]

I'd consider Ellis v Bryce Gibbs a more apt comparisoin, FWIW.

In which case, as much as it hurts me to say, Gibbs by a mile. Having said that, Thomas was excellent in the middle for the pies early. Was then taken out and had limited impact. Can do everything that Ellis can do and possibly more IMO. So I guess we should save time comparing and consider ourselves lucky to have what we have.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

In which case, as much as it hurts me to say, Gibbs by a mile. Having said that, Thomas was excellent in the middle for the pies early. Was then taken out and had limited impact. Can do everything that Ellis can do and possibly more IMO. So I guess we should save time comparing and consider ourselves lucky to have what we have.

At this point in time I'd agree. What year was Gibbs drafted, compared to Daisy and Ellis?

 

[Kirby]

At this point in time I'd agree. What year was Gibbs drafted, compared to Daisy and Ellis?

The year after (2006).

 

[DWil6]

Gibbs is really hitting his straps now. He looks to be another quality pick up for the Blues.

 

[WOTTAMACHINE]

Good discussion, but I think we both had a win in this draft.. You guys won a bit more with Pendlebury, our other pick (Beau Dowler) cant break through due to Buddy and Roughie, dont know his capabilities..
Both Thomas and Ellis will figure at the respective clubs over the next decade..
You have had your moments with Daisy when he pulls of some of his magic, both going to be class players..
With Ellis though, he has taken a while to develop, if he can keep up those sort of efforts like on fri night, he could well be compared to Luke Power.
Just enjoy what you have got, daisy is dazzling..

 

[dodgeball]

the two are hard to compare due to (a) they havn't played alot of football and are still very very young and (b) are different types of players. I think players like daisy with that x-factor and freaky goal sense are harder to find though than players of ellis's ilk. i'll stick with the man in black and white.

 

[Axl the great]

Some of you idiots make me sick to my stomach bagging Dale Thomas after a few lean games, And the one imbicile who said he was not up to AFL standard knows nothing about footy at all.
Here is the reality Dale is played allover the place hence he cant settle and will have poor games until MM decides where that position is.
He has single handedly won games for us, is only 21 yrs old, has the ability to be a cosistent mid with more opportunity and confidence in there.
He is a scapegoat for some of you while senior players go unscathed after 100 plus games.
Dale is an absolute gun who does the 1%ers better than most young players and when he becomes the superstar he will be in the next few years you same losers who bagg him will go out and buy a jumper with the no13 on the back and rock up for the games in it.
To all you Dale bashers just go and get you know what!

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

ellis is an accumulator and thomas is the matchwinner.

ellis will probly end his career as the scotty west type, ball winner and consistent. almost a lock for 25+ a game. better user of the ball with the ability to link from half back.

thomas is a red time player. will end his career avg. 20 p's and 2 goals a game. he is the player you want with the ball in the last five minutes for some ignition.

ellis should be compared with penders.

In that case, I would have to say that Penders lowered his colours to Ellis on the weekend. Ellis was impressive. Penders has had an ordinary year, given what was expected of him. I also think he is playing injured.

 

[shawthing09]

[/b]

In that case, I would have to say that Penders lowered his colours to Ellis on the weekend. Ellis was impressive. Penders has had an ordinary year, given what was expected of him. I also think he is playing injured.

One of the things that make this arguement futile is the fact that I doubt we would have taken Daisy if we didn't have pendleberry who is a very similar player up or sleeve.

So if Pendleberry is a better player then Ellis, and Daisy is a different player all together, we still win from choosing that route of selection.

Comparing Thomas to Ellis is still far to early to tell. If Thomas can make the conversion to a consistant midfielder he will more then likely be a class above both Pendles and Ellis due to his line breaking ability and X factor. Ellis has only just broken into and started to get comfortable in the Hawthorn midfield. Still a long way to go.

As for the Pendles and Ellis comparison I still think Pedles will be the better by a far margain. Ellis had the whole school footy thing in his first year of being drafted which one of the reasons he seems to be blooming late. Pendles was late to footy all together. Pendles has been getting a heap of attention this year and you just have to look at Marc Murphy last year to this year to see the effect that it can have on a young player. Ellis is probably the 5th best midfielder in the Hawthorn side and hence runs around at will. Pendles is probably our second best and as such doesn't get the same freedom.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

One of the things that make this arguement futile is the fact that I doubt we would have taken Daisy if we didn't have pendleberry who is a very similar player up or sleeve.

So if Pendleberry is a better player then Ellis, and Daisy is a different player all together, we still win from choosing that route of selection.

Comparing Thomas to Ellis is still far to early to tell. If Thomas can make the conversion to a consistant midfielder he will more then likely be a class above both Pendles and Ellis due to his line breaking ability and X factor. Ellis has only just broken into and started to get comfortable in the Hawthorn midfield. Still a long way to go.

As for the Pendles and Ellis comparison I still think Pedles will be the better by a far margain. Ellis had the whole school footy thing in his first year of being drafted which one of the reasons he seems to be blooming late. Pendles was late to footy all together. Pendles has been getting a heap of attention this year and you just have to look at Marc Murphy last year to this year to see the effect that it can have on a young player. Ellis is probably the 5th best midfielder in the Hawthorn side and hence runs around at will. Pendles is probably our second best and as such doesn't get the same freedom.

Fair point. Anyway, at least we didn't pick some dud - like Danny Roach, Richard Cole or Chris Egan.

 

[Philhawk]

Thomas is a wonderful player.

Even as a one eyed Hawk fan (), i'm suprised so many of you are so quick to write off Daisy just because he's had a reasonably average season thus far (mind you, he was excellent against Syd).

Give him time - when he builds up a good motor, he'll be an excellent midfielder-cum-forward.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Very well said, Philhawk.

It amazes me that after 5 pages of posts, not one picked up on the obvious fact that Thomas picked up 15 possessions in the midfield and was probably BOG until half time - but then Malthouse, in one of his increasingly inexplicable brain waves of late, left him languishing deep in the forward pocket for the entire second half. Given the extremely limited opportunities (as the ball all too rarely got down there) I thought he did well to still get another 6 possessions.

Thomas is an A-grade quality player. As for Pies coaching tactics and use of Thomas - that's another topic altogether.

 

[Bay Pie]

Very well said, Philhawk.

It amazes me that after 5 pages of posts, not one picked up on the obvious fact that Thomas picked up 15 possessions in the midfield and was probably BOG until half time - but then Malthouse, in one of his increasingly inexplicable brain waves of late, left him languishing deep in the forward pocket for the entire second half. Given the extremely limited opportunities (as the ball all too rarely got down there) I thought he did well to still get another 6 possessions.

Thomas is an A-grade quality player. As for Pies coaching tactics and use of Thomas - that's another topic altogether.

I too, am very puzzled with where we are playing him. His best games this year have been when he has gone onto the ball. He has very good skills on both sides. Perhaps he was knackered and instead of giving him a blow we rested him forward or back like against Essendon.

 

[Kirby]

Very well said, Philhawk.

It amazes me that after 5 pages of posts, not one picked up on the obvious fact that Thomas picked up 15 possessions in the midfield and was probably BOG until half time - but then Malthouse, in one of his increasingly inexplicable brain waves of late, left him languishing deep in the forward pocket for the entire second half. Given the extremely limited opportunities (as the ball all too rarely got down there) I thought he did well to still get another 6 possessions.

Thomas is an A-grade quality player. As for Pies coaching tactics and use of Thomas - that's another topic altogether.

Worse, he was actually in the back pocket for nearly all the third quarter.