Damien Barrett said it may be over soon on the footy show

[mxett]

Great, so it is not fact that Hird and Reid were present and aware that Thymosine and AOD9604 were to be included in the supplement program. Dank cannot be classified as "rogue" regarding the use of either substance


Thanks for clarifying that

I would agree with that on the current details we have available. But again, only one of 16 forms of thymosin is banned and the compliant use of AOD last year appears ambiguous.

 

[rumply]

Glad you find your players health funny.

This saga is like a 4-hour movie. You stopped giving a sh*t 2 hours ago but you have invested too much time in it not to see it through.

I have my views on what happened, but if this ended tomorrow with Vlad holding a press conference where he simply laughed and said 'foolish peasants, never question me' and then walked off, I would be happy.

You certainly haven't been protesting essendon's innocence

Just attacking any non-essendon supporters who are posing legitimate questions and being very suspicious of any spin coming out of windy hill.

Subtle difference

just come here for lols

LOL

 

[jenny61_99]

I would agree with that on the current details we have available. But again, only one of 16 forms of thymosin is banned and the compliant use of AOD last year appears ambiguous.

Can you show me where I can purchase thymosin in any other form other than Alpha 1 and Beta 4?

 

[Armchair Critic]

And two club doctors claimed they have seen evidence it could be used.

Yet this evidence has yet to be produced . WADA has stated no such evidence would have been given by them.

Show me a source where there is a direct quote from Dr Reid claiming he saw this evidence.

I am not saying you are wrong but I just have not seen it. I know Dank has said that.

 

[Armchair Critic]

I would agree with that on the current details we have available. But again, only one of 16 forms of thymosin is banned and the compliant use of AOD last year appears ambiguous.

Compliant use?

 

[coryne]

I would agree with that on the current details we have available. But again, only one of 16 forms of thymosin is banned and the compliant use of AOD last year appears ambiguous.

How many times does WADA need to say AOD is not, and has never been, an approved substance before it is no longer "ambiguous" in your mind?


How many times does Dank have to say he was never given written consent to use AOD, and such consent would never be given by WADA before it is no longer "ambiguous" in your mind?


How many times does WADA have to say consent to use AOD would never be given before it is no longer "ambiguous" in your mind?


How many of your own experts need to come out and say that AOD would not be a compliant substance before it is no longer "ambiguous" in your mind?




OK we have this "mystery letter" which you keep on harping on about which 2 doctors have supposedly witnessed. The ONLY reference I have seen to Bate having access to this letter was a Text saying Dank would show Bates an email ASADA was going to send Dank after he started his program at Melbourne (exact msg was ""Sorry mate. In a meeting. Spoke to ASADA. No problems. They will confirm by email. No issues their end.""


So Dank was, supposedly, still in communications with ASADA regarding the legality of AOD when he started his Melbourne program. Why would he still be, supposedly, asking ASADA if AOD was compliant if he already knew it was, and had proof that it was? Why wouldn't he just use the proof he gathered during his time at Essendon and supply that to Melbourne ??? Oh wait, that's right, IT DOESN'T EXIST.


Did two club doctors get sucked in by Dank? Probably. Does that excuse the clubs from using the drugs? Absolutely not.

 

[mediumsizered]

It makes no sense, there was at least 1 banned substance listed on the consent form. If Dr Reid was there it means one of two thing IMO

1. Dr Reid is an incompetent fool.

2. Dr Reid was involved and I can't see how Dank can be painted as a Rogue

This is where mxett is confused.

He, along with other supporters & the club are now wanting to argue rogue behaviour by Dank, yet mxett wants to also continue trying to throw Doc Reid under the bus. If Reid was complicit, then Dank can't be painted as a rogue.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

I would agree with that on the current details we have available. But again, only one of 16 forms of thymosin is banned and the compliant use of AOD last year appears ambiguous.

Bahahahaha!

It must be great picking and choosing to believe what you like.

 

[mxett]

This is where mxett is confused.

He, along with other supporters & the club are now wanting to argue rogue behaviour by Dank, yet mxett wants to also continue trying to throw Doc Reid under the bus. If Reid was complicit, then Dank can't be painted as a rogue.

Rubbish!

Dank was asked to pass all supplements via Reid. If Dank didnt do this he operated outside his authority. If Reid was aware of this, as it appears he was by his written concerns, he should have made a bigger issue out of it than a single letter.

 

[mxett]

How many times does WADA need to say AOD is not, and has never been, an approved substance before it is no longer "ambiguous" in your mind?


How many times does Dank have to say he was never given written consent to use AOD, and such consent would never be given by WADA before it is no longer "ambiguous" in your mind?


How many times does WADA have to say consent to use AOD would never be given before it is no longer "ambiguous" in your mind?


How many of your own experts need to come out and say that AOD would not be a compliant substance before it is no longer "ambiguous" in your mind?




OK we have this "mystery letter" which you keep on harping on about which 2 doctors have supposedly witnessed. The ONLY reference I have seen to Bate having access to this letter was a Text saying Dank would show Bates an email ASADA was going to send Dank after he started his program at Melbourne (exact msg was ""Sorry mate. In a meeting. Spoke to ASADA. No problems. They will confirm by email. No issues their end.""


So Dank was, supposedly, still in communications with ASADA regarding the legality of AOD when he started his Melbourne program. Why would he still be, supposedly, asking ASADA if AOD was compliant if he already knew it was, and had proof that it was? Why wouldn't he just use the proof he gathered during his time at Essendon and supply that to Melbourne ??? Oh wait, that's right, IT DOESN'T EXIST.


Did two club doctors get sucked in by Dank? Probably. Does that excuse the clubs from using the drugs? Absolutely not.

Yes yes, we also know that ASADA believe any case against the use of AOD is week.

 

[PluggersPig]

Rubbish!

Dank was asked to pass all supplements via Reid. If Dank didnt do this he operated outside his authority. If Reid was aware of this, as it appears he was by his written concerns, he should have made a bigger issue out of it than a single letter.

The payers are also asked to be responsible for what is injected into their veins.

Were the players under some sort of mind control?

 

[coryne]

Yes yes, we also know that ASADA believe any case against the use of AOD is week.

That was a line in an article in what, April, before WADA declared AOD is, and always was, a prohibited substance. The only reason there was ever any doubt was the bullshit claims by Essendon that they had approval in the form of a letter from WADA which has been shown to be false.

 

[PluggersPig]

LOL

What's up rumply?
I can see beads of sweat running down your forehead.
Why not answer a simple question?

 

[Armchair Critic]

Rubbish!

Dank was asked to pass all supplements via Reid. If Dank didnt do this he operated outside his authority. If Reid was aware of this, as it appears he was by his written concerns, he should have made a bigger issue out of it than a single letter.[/quote]

On the same token , Hird should have followed up with Dank and Reid making sure everything was compliant before any substances were injected. Pretty poor IMO

 

[PluggersPig]

Maybe the fact they haven't begun an investigation into Essendon is a sign the program wasnt as bad as bf thinks?

Maybe....

Could also wait until the truth comes out.

Remember. Nobody at the EFC has put in a complaint to worksafe and there hasn't been any official injuries to staff.

It will be interesting to see how long the players and their families hold out on this one.

 

[PluggersPig]

Not according to the one player who has discussed the consents, McVeigh

Yes Spike, the only credible witness who claimed vitamins and assassinated the character of Reimers in public but now is alarmed and furious at what has gone on at his beloved bombers.

I looking forward to spikes next sermon in public

 

[jenny61_99]

Not according to the one player who has discussed the consents, McVeigh

CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: It's an allegation Steve Dank denies. He says before the supplements regime began, all Essendon players were asked to sign consent forms.​

STEVE DANK: I guess from our point of view we just thought because we were sort of introducing a fairly broad range-type program, that we just wanted to make sure they were informed about what was about to be undertaken as part of its supplement program.​

CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: Alongside consent forms were players fully informed of what they were ... ​

STEVE DANK: Yes.​

CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: ... to be administered?​

STEVE DANK: Yes. And, you know, oftentimes, particularly in the early stages, we would actually get them to reaffirm that they knew what they were taking and what they were doing. So there was a lot of discussion with the players on that.​

CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: How does that then - your answer sit with the fact that former Essendon players have now spoken publicly regarding the fact that they were completely unaware of what they were being given?​

STEVE DANK: Certainly very, very surprised. Certainly very, very surprised given the amount of discussion that we'd had with the players.​

CARO MELDRUM-HANNA: So, which version of the story is correct?​

STEVE DANK: Well obviously I say my version is correct. We certainly spent a lot of time, and even as the season progressed, we still kept that dialogue going quite strongly.​

 

[mxett]

Maybe....

Could also wait until the truth comes out.

Remember. Nobody at the EFC has put in a complaint to worksafe and there hasn't been any official injuries to staff.

It will be interesting to see how long the players and their families hold out on this one.

He was speaking for himself so how do we know he lied? The off site clinic Melbourne used confirmed all they were asked to do was inject vitamins so McVeigh could be telling the truth from his perspective.

 

[mxett]

STEVE DANK: "Yes. And, you know, oftentimes, particularly in the early stages, we would actually get them to reaffirm that they knew what they were taking and what they were doing. So there was a lot of discussion with the players on that"

Interesting

 

[PluggersPig]

He was speaking for himself so how do we know he lied? The off site clinic Melbourne used confirmed all they were asked to do was inject vitamins so McVeigh could be telling the truth from his perspective.

We don't really know.

But spike was adamant in his public sermon from the mount that Reimers was a liar or sleeping through the meetings (or both)

You haven't answered the important question though.

Why would almost an entire list be injected with Thymosin?

(And you can take your pick whether you wish to admit to thymosin beta4 or thymosin alpha1. I know which one you will assume, it kind of minimizes the damage done to Hird and your players. But does it?)

 

[mxett]

We don't really know.

But spike was adamant in his public sermon from the mount that Reimers was a liar or sleeping through the meetings (or both)

You haven't answered the important question though.

Why would almost an entire list be injected with Thymosin?

(And you can take your pick whether you wish to admit to thymosin beta4 or thymosin alpha1. I know which one you will assume, it kind of minimizes the damage done to Hird and your players. But does it?)

He didnt say Reimers lied. He criticised Reimers for claiming he didnt know what he was given or what he signed.

 

[PluggersPig]

He didnt say Reimers lied. He criticised Reimers for claiming he didnt know what he was given or what he signed.

it appears as though nobody knows what was pumped into their veins.

Players are responsible for that aren't they?

 

[mxett]

it appears as though nobody knows what was pumped into their veins.

Players are responsible for that aren't they?

Does every player check the vial of lignocaine before being injected with local on the bench? Or the haemorrhoid cream when treated for a cut? Or the drink they are handed by the trainer after a goal? In the end it is their responsibility but reality says if the staff are employed by the club and trusted the players would assume they were ok. Maybe we should ask Trengrove.

 

[blue harvest]

Does every player check the vial of lignocaine before being injected with local on the bench? Or the haemorrhoid cream when treated for a cut? Or the drink they are handed by the trainer after a goal? In the end it is their responsibility but reality says if the staff are employed by the club and trusted the players would assume they were ok. Maybe we should ask Trengrove.

If the haemorrhoid cream and drink are given in a clinic across the road and you are asked to sign a waiver and not tell anyone about it then yes.

 

[mediumsizered]

Does every player check the vial of lignocaine before being injected with local on the bench? Or the haemorrhoid cream when treated for a cut? Or the drink they are handed by the trainer after a goal? In the end it is their responsibility but reality says if the staff are employed by the club and trusted the players would assume they were ok. Maybe we should ask Trengrove.

They don't, but they should because they are responsible for what goes into their body.

This whole ghastly episode will hopefully lead to all players questioning everything they are given by club doctors, trainers, sports scientists, the doctor/nurse at the medical centre across the road etc etc & more importantly, making sure everything they are given is ASADA/WADA compliant & safe to be used on humans. It might sound like a lot of trouble for players to have to go to, but the alternative is what has transpired over the last 4 months at the Essendon Football Club.