Dane Swan v Brent Stanton

[Donakebab]

one game does not make a player but daz77, iWasSayinBoorent, JC Hawks, Long_bomb, zaharaharakis clearly didnt watch anzac day this year..

Mention the first or the last, both is just stupid.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Allowed? Nobody is 'allowed' to do anything in AFL, he's getting his touches because he is earning them through elite running, finding space, taking marks and confidence in his team mates.

He isn't getting permission from the other sides to do it.

If that shit was easy everyone would be doing it.



EVERY player can be shut down. Achieving it is an entirely different concept. He's played 8 games this year, had one poor game, two average ones and five brilliant games.

What is it with some Pies fans, who think they stumbled on to some brilliant concept with Clarke's role on Stanton? He had a poor game, partially through his own efforts and partially through the efforts of his opponent.

Did you know that hard running midfields blunt Swan's influence, because without space to pass in to he becomes largely inefficient? Well it happened once, so it must be the gospel truth!



Athleticism? Word on the street says he's one of the fittest players at the club (coincidentally behind Stanton who holds this in universal regard). He is also is quite well regarded in playing a key forward position, because of his unusual height for a midfielder and marking capacity. He doesn't play there often of course, because of his elite midfielder status. He does still manage to find himself near the top of the list as far as mpg goes for midfielders. You know, because he runs into space and/or outmarks the far more athletically gifted players around him.

Now, if it seems that I'm having a slight crack at you, I probably am.

You've come in to this thread and thrown out an absolute fishing line with your, "wait, Essendon fans wouldn't trade Stanton for Swan?" comment - despite the fact that essentially every Essendon fan on this thread acknowledged Swan's superiority as a player over the journey.

You coupled that with some ramblings on how Stanton is allowed to roam free and how he'll be stopped because players like him can be shut down.

Mate, I would wager that you don't have a great deal of insight on the game aside from looking at the scoreboard and understanding whether your team won or lost. I know a sheep when I see one, regurgitating the same crap that the rest of the bleating masses spit out. The type that likes to rag on about how the guys and girls in the media have no idea, but pours over every word in the paper looking for references or stories about his own side.

Here, I'll save you the trouble - here's another couple you can run with when you want to chat about Essendon next time:

"Watson can't kick"

"Stanton can't handle a tag"

"Fletcher doesn't take the best defender"

"Essendon lacks A-class stars"

"Bomber is the one doing the coaching"

"Ryder is lazy"

There you go, fill up on a few of those and you'll be set to 'BE AWESOME' in the next thread.

I have no doubt there are some teams who can not shut Stanton down, he is a very good footballer and I am not denying that, but I will say again, come the big games this year Stanton will be shut down. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it whether you like it or not.

Obviously with Watson I am referring to his pace and body shape, but don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

Obviously Essendon fans and fans in general are entitled to think Stanton is going to keep impoving and might even reach the level Swan is at now, so I can understand that they wouldn't do the trade. And let's be honest it would never happen, neither side would want to lose their player. But I think if you were looking at it all emotion aside Essendon would be getting an unbelievably good deal.

Mate, you gleaned my insight from those last couple of posts did you? Mate, you are spot on. Mate.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I have no doubt there are some teams who can not shut Stanton down, he is a very good footballer and I am not denying that, but I will say again, come the big games this year Stanton will be shut down. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it whether you like it or not.

Mate, you gleaned my insight from those last couple of posts did you? Mate, you are spot on. Mate.

Like the West Coast and Carlton games?

On the emotions aside statement, I would agree with that.

 

[Spitta09]

Swan easily impacts more games, has a lot more class and wins more contested ball.
Why is this even a poll?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Swan easily impacts more games, has a lot more class and wins more contested ball.
Why is this even a poll?

Its a troll.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Like the West Coast and Carlton games?

On the emotions aside statement, I would agree with that.

I think the West Coast and Carlton games are a really good example. Carlton lost Carazzo early in that game, and with that they lost their only real natural defensive midfielder. Now I think Carazzo started on Watson that day, but with out Watson playing a good game, I don't think Stanton can dominate. You need Watson feeding the ball out to guys like Stanton to be as damaging as Essendon can be. But let's just say that despite Watson not playing well with Carrazzo following him around, Stanton is still gunning it and Essendon still winning well. It is likely Carrazzo would move onto Stanton to shut him down, given how good he was that day (best game I've seen him play, he was awesome).
Against West Coast, they lost Adam Selwood and Matt Priddis from their midfield group and that meant neither of the Selwoods were able to play a defensive type game considering Scott was needed to be more offensive, especially with Priddis going down.

When you are a 7-1 team, and that was not expected, teams will suddenly start to try different tactics to see how best to shut down the strengths of your game. For Essendon in the midfield those strengths are a great defensive/tackling effort (which can't be stopped) and Jobe Watson on the inside and Brent Stanton on the outside. I think as teams with finals aspirations come up against the Dons, they will see that one of the ways they can stop Essendon's midfield is by putting a body on Stanton, likely an elite running defensive midfielder.
It won't happen against Melbourne or GWS because they don't have the structure or players, but when you play Sydney in round 11, they will play Bird or Jack on him or maybe even Rhyce Shaw.
Round 13 against Freo, Crowley or Mzungu will go with him.
Round 14 against the Dogs Picken will go with him.
Round 15 against the Saints Jones or Ray.

At this point if Stanton is still gunning it like he is now I will definietly put my hand up and say that he is now a lock for AA and in the elite crop of mids.

 

[Krooooze]

3 Copelands, 3 All Australians, 1 MVP, 1 brownlow and 1 premiership. Answer is pretty obvious

 

[doppleganger]

Swan.

Stanton does get contested footy though. Been going at 10+ over his last 15-20 games.

Do people realise that loose ball gets are included in contested possessions??

Swan is in top 10 of 1st possessions, avg 7 per game.

For comparison Watson avg 7.5, and the best Boyd is just over 8 per game.

Swan is very much a great inside player.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Essendon suporters here honestly believe that their club wouldn't trade Stanton for Swan if it was on the table?

You're kidding yourselves.

This poll is not even close, and nor should it be.

 

[policegetthatman]

Swan.

Stanton does get contested footy though. Been going at 10+ over his last 15-20 games.

Get 3 contested disposals against Carlton earlier this year.

 

[footscore]

how old's Stanton..26?

lol so he's been around for a good 7 or so years and it's finally taken the boy this long to click into gear and do what Swan has been doing for years now (Swan is only 2 years older as well)

God!' Essendon supporters come out of the wood work quickly once the team get on a nice little run don't they.

The good thing about this poll is you can absolutely bank on one thing, Swan will not only be playing better football by the end of the season but Stanton is going to go through his usual inconsistency which has plagued his career.
Certainly not begrudging Stanton...he's a top player at the moment but he's definitely not in the same class as Swan and I doubt he ever will be due to the time it's taken him to develop.

 

[policegetthatman]

It was 7, can hardly blame him for it considering he was too good and ran off the marshmellows all game to collect the ball uncontested.

36 UP possessions out of 39 against my mob.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

The good thing about this poll is you can absolutely bank on one thing, Swan will not only be playing better football by the end of the season but Stanton is going to go through his usual inconsistency which has plagued his career.

Swan easily for sure but have to disagree with the inconsistency line. Stanton has been a good 7/10 player nearly every week for 4 years, averaging 23-24 touches since 07, providing good run and carry, and leading the way with his work rate. The problem was he started off his career so well, and when he stagnated, he developed a much more negative reputation than he should have had.

 

[doppleganger]

5 against Brisbane, but that says more about your shit mob than Stanton.

4 against Collingwood......M.Clarke stopped him from running onto loose balls.

 

[Drummer_19]

Essendon suporters here honestly believe that their club wouldn't trade Stanton for Swan if it was on the table?

You're kidding yourselves.

This poll is not even close, and nor should it be.

It's pretty amazing you've let it remain open past a few posts considering what the op has obviously set out to achieve with it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's pretty amazing you've let it remain open past a few posts considering what the op has obviously set out to achieve with it.

If you have a query about moderation, do it via Pm.

Stanton's having his best season ever, and so I think the poll could be seen as valid. Personally, I think he's a very average footballer getting the best out of himself, while Swan is a champion of the game.

Plenty of people here are suggesting the difference isn't all that great, but while I don't see it, if they can make their case without trolling or baiting I think we'll let the discussion continue.

 

[Slattery_20]

36 UP possessions out of 39 against my mob.

Takes two to tango.
It's a bit hard to get contested possessions when the other side's barely making a contest.

 

[Slattery_20]

If you have a query about moderation, do it via Pm.

Stanton's having his best season ever, and so I think the poll could be seen as valid. Personally, I think he's a very average footballer getting the best out of himself, while Swan is a champion of the game.

Plenty of people here are suggesting the difference isn't all that great, but while I don't see it, if they can make their case without trolling or baiting I think we'll let the discussion continue.

Of all the zillions of people on bigfooy, all this supposed legion of deluded Bomber fans pissing in his pocket non-stop, a total of 6 people have so far voted for Stanton and 1 of those is a Hawk. I think that says all there is to be said about this being a valid discussion.


Last year or the year before there was a poll where Dustin Martin BEAT Swan in a similar poll. Now that was funny. At least Stanton plays midfield.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Of all the zillions of people on bigfooy, all this supposed legion of deluded Bomber fans pissing in his pocket non-stop, a total of 6 people have so far voted for Stanton and 1 of those is a Hawk. I think that says all there is to be said about this being a valid discussion.


Last year or the year before there was a poll where Dustin Martin BEAT Swan in a similar poll. Now that was funny. At least Stanton plays midfield.

If I closed every thread based on how far apart I thought the subjects were in output or talent, this board wouldn't be worth visiting.

 

[Jade]

I have no doubt there are some teams who can not shut Stanton down, he is a very good footballer and I am not denying that, but I will say again, come the big games this year Stanton will be shut down. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it whether you like it or not.

Come the big games.....

Stanton has played in:

Round 1 game v North
v Carlton @ MCG (both teams undefeated)
v Collingwood Anzac Day
v West Coast (undefeated)
v Richmond Dreamtime at the 'G

ALL of which were big games. Your opinion? Translation = idiotic comment, but i'll hide it behind opinion.

Of those five games, Stanton played poorly in one.

Obviously with Watson I am referring to his pace and body shape, but don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

Obviously Essendon fans and fans in general are entitled to think Stanton is going to keep impoving and might even reach the level Swan is at now, so I can understand that they wouldn't do the trade. And let's be honest it would never happen, neither side would want to lose their player. But I think if you were looking at it all emotion aside Essendon would be getting an unbelievably good deal.

I'm not seeing many Essendon fans assuming Stanton will get better - think we are happy with his current level of output.

Interesting though "level Swan is at now" - I'd say Stanton is cleanly outperforming Swan so far this year. Perhaps what you meant to say is, level Swan has consistently shown he can achieve.

Mate, you gleaned my insight from those last couple of posts did you? Mate, you are spot on. Mate.

Yeah, it isn't hard.

Like a few of the pearls of wisdom I suggested you go with next time, people can say things that instantly reveal them as completely obtuse when it comes to football.

This:

but I can promise you as the games get bigger and if the Bombers remain at the top, Stanton will not be allowed to run around and pick up 30+ touches with the ease he is at the moment.

And players like this can be shutdown.

Is dull speak. It's the effort of trying to sound like you have any level of insight where none exists.

You don't know anything about Stanton. You know that he is playing well this year, because other people tell you he is (though you don't know why), and you know that Swan has been a star throughout his career (again, I doubt you could explain why).

I've heard a rather clever quote before, which without being sure I believe was Mark Twain:

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

And this is exactly where we are at now. Your comments indicate such a base level of understanding that I had to pause for a second, gather myself and figure out exactly where to start. But it's "your opinion"; the shield by which keyboard mashers historically hide behind on BigFooty.

It used to actually bug me - dealing with the anonymous bleating masses that simply refuse to admit that they really didn't know what they were typing - but I must admit over more recent times I've found that simply shining the torch on it tends to keep the thread intact.

 

[Kong]

Personally, I think he's a very average footballer getting the best out of himself, while Swan is a champion of the game.

Can you explain why you think Stanton's a "very average footballer" playing very good football, and Swan isn't?

Both unfashionable, both prone to the odd shank, both work their arses off.

I'd say they're pretty similar in that regard. Obviously Swan is and has been better, but I can't see how you're applying logic to one and not the other.

How do you define a "very average footballer" if he's not playing "very average football", and hasn't been for well over 5 years, now?

 

[Slattery_20]

Stanton's almost always amongst our best performers in big games... as far as we've gone, anyway.
Our best in the Carlton final flogging, almost always amongst our best vs the Hawks, one of our best against Blues/WCE this year, amongst our "best" (dubious honour) in the Adelaide final debacle, and our best in the Hawthorn game that got us there.
Partially that's more that there's a bit more space for a runner on the MCG.

As far as Essendon go he's behind Fletcher alone as our "most proven" (admittedly, not saying much) big game player.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Come the big games.....

Stanton has played in:

Round 1 game v North
v Carlton @ MCG (both teams undefeated)
v Collingwood Anzac Day
v West Coast (undefeated)
v Richmond Dreamtime at the 'G

ALL of which were big games. Your opinion? Translation = idiotic comment, but i'll hide it behind opinion.

Of those five games, Stanton played poorly in one.



I'm not seeing many Essendon fans assuming Stanton will get better - think we are happy with his current level of output.

Interesting though "level Swan is at now" - I'd say Stanton is cleanly outperforming Swan so far this year. Perhaps what you meant to say is, level Swan has consistently shown he can achieve.



Yeah, it isn't hard.

Like a few of the pearls of wisdom I suggested you go with next time, people can say things that instantly reveal them as completely obtuse when it comes to football.

This:





Is dull speak. It's the effort of trying to sound like you have any level of insight where none exists.

You don't know anything about Stanton. You know that he is playing well this year, because other people tell you he is (though you don't know why), and you know that Swan has been a star throughout his career (again, I doubt you could explain why).

I've heard a rather clever quote before, which without being sure I believe was Mark Twain:



And this is exactly where we are at now. Your comments indicate such a base level of understanding that I had to pause for a second, gather myself and figure out exactly where to start. But it's "your opinion"; the shield by which keyboard mashers historically hide behind on BigFooty.

It used to actually bug me - dealing with the anonymous bleating masses that simply refuse to admit that they really didn't know what they were typing - but I must admit over more recent times I've found that simply shining the torch on it tends to keep the thread intact.

How about tackling the issue and not the man, huh?

Tell me which games Stanton has had a run with player go with him this year.
I don't really want to make this a Stanton bashing thread, the guy is playing the best footy of his career and deserves the accolades he is getting.
However it seems to me that if a guy like Stanton is killing it, and Essendon are killing it, teams will look at trying to stop him as a main priority to beating a very good Essendon side.
Now I might be wrong and he might run all the taggers off their feet and still pick up his 30 touches, but I don't think that will happen. A lot of Stanton's kicks are picked up after receiving the ball. Don't take this as a slight on his ability, he is just not suited to a clearance/contested ball winning midfield position.
History says that finals are more contested games, and I think with Stanton's improved performance and capability this season to chop up teams who don't pay him enough attention, when the "big games" come around (meaning important finals shaping matches and finals themselves) in the second half of the season he will be shut down.
It is very tough for any player to pick up 20-30 uncontested possesions as Stanton has been able to in some games this season, in finals like matches. Unless Stanton really guns it in the loose ball get column (which is included in contested possesions) then I think his output will decline.

Follow Twain's advice or not, best thing to do though would be to actually focus on the topic. I guess I should apologise for singling out Essendon supporters who wouldn't trade Stanton for Swan, that probably sent the topic in the wrong direction.

 

[Slattery_20]

Nice theory.
History says that Stanton is the least of our worries in finals. Cleeeeeaaarly our best out there, last time around, and probably best the time before.

There are plenty of hardnuts who've had poor finals records and plenty of outside guys who've had great records.

Craig Bradley & Nigel Lappin had great finals records and they were both more at home outside the pack than in. Sam Mitchell & Jobe Watson don't have great finals records, and they're pure stoppage players.

Reality > theory.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Can you explain why you think Stanton's a "very average footballer" playing very good football, and Swan isn't?

Both unfashionable, both prone to the odd shank, both work their arses off.

I'd say they're pretty similar in that regard. Obviously Swan is and has been better, but I can't see how you're applying logic to one and not the other.

How do you define a "very average footballer" if he's not playing "very average football", and hasn't been for well over 5 years, now?

I don't rate him as anything more, especially in comparison to Swan. It's that simple. He's a good runner, not particularly damaging nor unique or dynamic in his capabilities. He isn't a topliner, and never will be IMO. In the scheme of things, in 15 years time, I believe, we'll look back at the top 4 teams from the last 10 or so years and rattle off 2 or 3 mids from each side that will be looked upon more favorably than Stanton. So in my eyes, when you line up all the 200 game mids he gets slotted in as what you'd typically expect from someone who's played that amount of games without setting the league alight.

"Good average" doesn't have to be taken as an insult.

That's not to say he hasn't been good for you in your down years, it's just that he's more your "solid" midfielder like Sewell than an out and out star of the comp like Swan is in my eyes.