Dane Swan

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Easy to get 30 possies is it? Are you mad, it may be easier than 10 years ago but its still far from easy. Thats a lot of gut running. Its hard to believe that a lazy selfish footballer , who does nothing for his team and doesn't give a shit as he waits for retirement can do that week after week

Just out of interest of the 396 players who lined up on the weekend 19 made it to 30 possies (<5%). Of the 198 players on a losing team Swan and 3 others got 30 possies (<2%). Every player who got 30 or more possies last weekend was named in the best on the AFL site. Swan gets 30 every week, its not easy to do.

Swans not at his best but he is a mile from being dropped. Not because he is special but because he is performing at a level that makes it just crazy to do so. He would be well up near the top of Collingwoods B&F at the moment.

Your last statement is another howler. Its not particularly likely that Swan can turn his form around to the levels of recent seasons. Are you for real? So after 3 rounds following 4 elite seasons you don't think its likely Swan can recapture his best. God you love the hasty judgement

If you look at Dane Swans history then yes, it is extremely easy for him to get 30 possies. Buckley said so in his post match press conference, something along the lines of Swanny can get 30 touches in his sleep.

DO you think it's ok for Swan to get 30 and his opponent to get 35?

I don't believe that I know exactly what Swanny is thinking, but from his actions it looks to me like he is only interested in working hard if it means he will get the footy (like an u12s player), it also looks like he is reluctant to do anything on the field which might result in an injury, this includes tackling. He is the fastest man in our midfield and yet he puts absolutely no pressure on the opposition when they have the ball. And I don't think this is a new thing for him, but I do think it has been getting progressively worse since the premiership.

As for the club putting him in the best every week, who actually puts out the best? It would be some journo for AFL.com or Collingwoods website. It would not be the coaching staff because if it was then we would already know who was winning the Copeland.

 

[the distributer]

He's had 5 tackles for the year, as a player who's around stoppages more than most that's disgracefull, Pendles has had 17 and even Jolly's had 8.

 

[Kirby]

He's had 5 tackles for the year, as a player who's around stoppages more than most that's disgracefull, Pendles has had 17 and even Jolly's had 8.

That is a pretty damning stat, that's for sure.

 

[Footy guru]

He's had 5 tackles for the year, as a player who's around stoppages more than most that's disgracefull, Pendles has had 17 and even Jolly's had 8.

Can't believe this board is still listening to this rubbish from fair and balanced opinion on Swan. Check his tackle stats for last year same as 2009 I think about 77 his highest was 2010 and we all know that was probably his best about 123. Since when is that stat used to judge a players performance, certain players are given jobs in a game Swan does other things how many midfielders read the play like him in the team he saved heaps in the back end against Richmond take a look if it wasn't for him some of our losses could have been worst. All you are doing is giving media people like Robert walls something to say. What about Thomas he has only played 10 mins of footy, if swan had of not missed the shots for goals against Richmond he would have been best on not pendles who turned the ball over in this game giving them two goals. Rotations were an issue last week with ball going down he played longer than the Carlton mids who had an 8 day break, even bombers talking about resting players due to Anzac game. Give the guy a break no wonder Eddie is upset with supporters shame on you all, look at injuries that's enough to upset the structures. Just back off shut this thread down

 

[Number 10]

Can't believe this board is still listening to this rubbish from fair and balanced opinion on Swan. Check his tackle stats for last year same as 2009 I think about 77 his highest was 2010 and we all know that was probably his best about 123. Since when is that stat used to judge a players performance, certain players are given jobs in a game Swan does other things how many midfielders read the play like him in the team he saved heaps in the back end against Richmond take a look if it wasn't for him some of our losses could have been worst. All you are doing is giving media people like Robert walls something to say. What about Thomas he has only played 10 mins of footy, if swan had of not missed the shots for goals against Richmond he would have been best on not pendles who turned the ball over in this game giving them two goals. Rotations were an issue last week with ball going down he played longer than the Carlton mids who had an 8 day break, even bombers talking about resting players due to Anzac game. Give the guy a break no wonder Eddie is upset with supporters shame on you all, look at injuries that's enough to upset the structures. Just back off shut this thread down

The tackle stat was used when we dropped beams last year and told him to work on his defensive side to his game- he came back and was in our top 5 players for the rest of the season. It is an extremely important stat, if not the most important in this sport along with contested possessions.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Can't believe this board is still listening to this rubbish from fair and balanced opinion on Swan. Check his tackle stats for last year same as 2009 I think about 77 his highest was 2010 and we all know that was probably his best about 123. Since when is that stat used to judge a players performance, certain players are given jobs in a game Swan does other things how many midfielders read the play like him in the team he saved heaps in the back end against Richmond take a look if it wasn't for him some of our losses could have been worst. All you are doing is giving media people like Robert walls something to say. What about Thomas he has only played 10 mins of footy, if swan had of not missed the shots for goals against Richmond he would have been best on not pendles who turned the ball over in this game giving them two goals. Rotations were an issue last week with ball going down he played longer than the Carlton mids who had an 8 day break, even bombers talking about resting players due to Anzac game. Give the guy a break no wonder Eddie is upset with supporters shame on you all, look at injuries that's enough to upset the structures. Just back off shut this thread down

Mate if you think Swan having 1 tackle in a game where our midfield was demolished is not a damning stat then that is fine, this if the forum to express your views. Just don't ask for my views to be "shut down". I love Collingwood, I am not rubbishing all of the players, I am in support of Wood, Dawes and O'Brien, unlike a lot of other people on this board. It just seems that Swan is a favorite for so many people and they can't look beyond the numbers. It's not difficult just watch the game. Watch his effort after Garlett steals his handball. Could I imagine Thomas, Pendles or anyone else just joggin in behind after giving such a crucial turnover? No. And this is just one of many instances where Swan is severely lacking in the defensive side of the game. Mitchell round 1, Deledio round 2, Judd and Murphy round 3, are we noticing a pattern here? They are Swan's opponents.

 

[the distributer]

Can't believe this board is still listening to this rubbish from fair and balanced opinion on Swan. Check his tackle stats for last year same as 2009 I think about 77 his highest was 2010 and we all know that was probably his best about 123. Since when is that stat used to judge a players performance, certain players are given jobs in a game Swan does other things how many midfielders read the play like him in the team he saved heaps in the back end against Richmond take a look if it wasn't for him some of our losses could have been worst. All you are doing is giving media people like Robert walls something to say. What about Thomas he has only played 10 mins of footy, if swan had of not missed the shots for goals against Richmond he would have been best on not pendles who turned the ball over in this game giving them two goals. Rotations were an issue last week with ball going down he played longer than the Carlton mids who had an 8 day break, even bombers talking about resting players due to Anzac game. Give the guy a break no wonder Eddie is upset with supporters shame on you all, look at injuries that's enough to upset the structures. Just back off shut this thread down

I think Swan had around 12 tackles in the GF replay, just sayin.

I also think it's an important stat, maybe not so much individuadly but as a team if we win the tackle count we generally win, same for most teams, also, stoppage players should lay many more tackles than anyone else on the ground, he is running one way currently, if he doesn't get the clearance he basicly isn't interested (compared to his best form), his body language is also shockingly bad.

 

[Footy guru]

Mate if you think Swan having 1 tackle in a game where our midfield was demolished is not a damning stat then that is fine, this if the forum to express your views. Just don't ask for my views to be "shut down". I love Collingwood, I am not rubbishing all of the players, I am in support of Wood, Dawes and O'Brien, unlike a lot of other people on this board. It just seems that Swan is a favorite for so many people and they can't look beyond the numbers. It's not difficult just watch the game. Watch his effort after Garlett steals his handball. Could I imagine Thomas, Pendles or anyone else just joggin in behind after giving such a crucial turnover? No. And this is just one of many instances where Swan is severely lacking in the defensive side of the game. Mitchell round 1, Deledio round 2, Judd and Murphy round 3, are we noticing a pattern here? They are Swan's opponents.

Hey mate they don't have opponents these days and I think he was on Martin at the beginning of the tigers game and beat him, they rotate so much these days do you listen to the commentators at all big deal he he isn't tackling for all we know he could have a slight niggle and if he does he will injury himself and frankly mate we ave enough at the moment. You are probably just worried about super coach points like others. The stats prove he hasn't been a big tackler recently so what's the problem yes he messed up with gartlett I am sure he felt worse than us over that you are speaking about a player who was upset after Yze kicked a bag on him. He was probably stuffed after that five day break then playing 92 mins. Instead of usual 80 mins or so open your eyes you started this thread and have created some of the bullshit swan is hearing I love his twitter having bucket of KFC I hope he doesn't read this shit probably written by blokes who have never played afl and are still at school. Thank god people on this forum do not represent the majority of supporters.

 

[the distributer]

Hey mate they don't have opponents these days and I think he was on Martin at the beginning of the tigers game and beat him, they rotate so much these days do you listen to the commentators at all big deal he he isn't tackling for all we know he could have a slight niggle and if he does he will injury himself and frankly mate we ave enough at the moment. You are probably just worried about super coach points like others. The stats prove he hasn't been a big tackler recently so what's the problem yes he messed up with gartlett I am sure he felt worse than us over that you are speaking about a player who was upset after Yze kicked a bag on him. He was probably stuffed after that five day break then playing 92 mins. Instead of usual 80 mins or so open your eyes you started this thread and have created some of the bullshit swan is hearing I love his twitter having bucket of KFC I hope he doesn't read this shit probably written by blokes who have never played afl and are still at school. Thank god people on this forum do not represent the majority of supporters.

You need to toughen up princess, we're all allowed to have an opinion, i bet my left nut Swan isn't happy with his defensive pressure either, i know Eade isn't.

 

[Gone Critical]

If you look at Dane Swans history then yes, it is extremely easy for him to get 30 possies. Buckley said so in his post match press conference, something along the lines of Swanny can get 30 touches in his sleep.



.

Chicken Egg

Because a player every week gets 30 possies more likely means he is a tough gut running midfielder who puts in every week. He gets his numbers because he works hard

I have heard plenty of people criticise Swan , Priddis Stanton et al for being unskilled workhorses who rack up possies but don't use them well but this is novel

Swan is now an unmotivated lazy footballer who can pick up possies at will without having to work for them. Explain how he does that cause not even GAJ gets accused of not having to run and work to get his stats

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Hey mate they don't have opponents these days and I think he was on Martin at the beginning of the tigers game and beat him, they rotate so much these days do you listen to the commentators at all big deal he he isn't tackling for all we know he could have a slight niggle and if he does he will injury himself and frankly mate we ave enough at the moment. You are probably just worried about super coach points like others. The stats prove he hasn't been a big tackler recently so what's the problem yes he messed up with gartlett I am sure he felt worse than us over that you are speaking about a player who was upset after Yze kicked a bag on him. He was probably stuffed after that five day break then playing 92 mins. Instead of usual 80 mins or so open your eyes you started this thread and have created some of the bullshit swan is hearing I love his twitter having bucket of KFC I hope he doesn't read this shit probably written by blokes who have never played afl and are still at school. Thank god people on this forum do not represent the majority of supporters.

That he is not a big tackler....

That is the problem.

I never once said he was fat.

Clearly you are a big Swanny fan and thats fine, you are reading swanny's twitter and don't mind him playing injured and just running one way then. Seems like you are more interested in Swanny getting 30 touches (and dream team points) than our team playing good hard accountable football.

As for the rotations, I can see at stoppages who Swan is on, on Friday it was either Judd or Murphy and they were the ones demolishing us at the clearances. You're okay with this? I wouldn't mind Swanny getting beaten if he was working hard defensively, if he was putting in effort to tackle and chase but he isn't. You say Swanny would feel bad about the Garlett chase, do you really think so? What makes you think this?
How about you just watch a replay of the Carlton or Hawthorn games and only watch Swan, then come and comment on how well he is playing.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Chicken Egg

Because a player every week gets 30 possies more likely means he is a tough gut running midfielder who puts in every week. He gets his numbers because he works hard

I have heard plenty of people criticise Swan , Priddis Stanton et al for being unskilled workhorses who rack up possies but don't use them well but this is novel

Swan is now an unmotivated lazy footballer who can pick up possies at will without having to work for them. Explain how he does that cause not even GAJ gets accused of not having to run and work to get his stats

WHat doesn this even mean? GAJ works unbelievably hard both ways and most importantly his tackling and pressure efforts around the contest are fantastic for a guy with such little help. Ablett has 14 tackles in 3 games, Swan has 5.

Ok one last time I am going to explain this again because this is getting ridiculous. It is NOT his possesion winning ability I am questioning. What I am saying is that he is winning these possesions because he uses all of his tank on winning these possesion and very little of his tank on anything defensively and i am not happy with that. No one player should have a license to just concentrate on a solely offensive game. He is not winning the clearnace balls that matter and he is not halving them either.

Just for a little comparison, Priddis has had 7 tackles in 2 games. Stanton has had 18 in 3 games. For a guy that stands around as many stoppages as Swan does, the 5 tackles in 3 games stat is the best example I can give in numbers of what I am trying to say.

Ok here is more. Of the top 20 stat winners so far this year, only Gaff, Brent Harvey and Shaun Grigg have less tackles than Swan and none of them play a centre square roll like Swan does. BY having 5 tackles a game, that means of the 50 odd centre bounce downs Swan would have been at, he could have only halved 5 of them. That is 45 times that we either lose it or Swan wins it. Added to this is that Swan has 11 clearances for the season. So that means at the absolute best, Swan has won or halved 16 of 50 centre clearances for the year. Now what about the stoppages around the ground??

He is currently 49th in the league in clearances. Stephen Hill and Steele Sidebottom have more clearances than Dane Swan. Now you guys watch the game, how often is Dane around a stoppage? I'd bet a heap more than Hill and Sidebottom.

In doing a little more research, you find that Dane Swan isn't in the top 50 for contested possesions this year either. He is 3rd for uncontested possesions. What do all these stats tell you? Dane Swan is not winning the hard ball, he is not tackling, he is not winning clearances, he is not stopping his opponent from winning clearances and he is getting a lot of the ball out in space, uncontested. That says to me what I already knew, and what I have been trying to say on this forum, Swanny is running forward of the ball and picking up a lot of "front running" stats.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

I'm with ya fairandbalanced.

It's great that Swanny has the ability and the workhorse to play so well offensively, but it still doesn't excuse him to be lazy on the defensive side. Especially when your playing zone, if one person slacks off, the zone is literally broken.

I remember Beams copping flack for lacking in his defensive side of the game, so what excuses Swanny?

 

[Footy guru]

That he is not a big tackler....

That is the problem.

I never once said he was fat.

Clearly you are a big Swanny fan and thats fine, you are reading swanny's twitter and don't mind him playing injured and just running one way then. Seems like you are more interested in Swanny getting 30 touches (and dream team points) than our team playing good hard accountable football.

As for the rotations, I can see at stoppages who Swan is on, on Friday it was either Judd or Murphy and they were the ones demolishing us at the clearances. You're okay with this? I wouldn't mind Swanny getting beaten if he was working hard defensively, if he was putting in effort to tackle and chase but he isn't. You say Swanny would feel bad about the Garlett chase, do you really think so? What makes you think this?
How about you just watch a replay of the Carlton or Hawthorn games and only watch Swan, then come and comment on how well he is playing.

I am not into dream points mate don't even play I dont want him to play injured just know that he has in the past last season in fact before Arizona but if a player has dropped off just saying there could be a reason we have enough injuries at the moment just watch the Carlton game and see who does the blocking on Judd successful at some of the centre clearances, perhaps you old prefer he plays with GWS with supporters like you perhaps he should have gone.

 

[magpielicious]

There were several times during the game when he wanted to come off but other players headed to the bench instead. You could see by his efforts he was pissed off as he was looking towards the bench and waving his arms.

wasn't a good look.

 

[noideaatall]

Swannie (or rather his current performance) is simply a symptom of the teams malaise, not to the problem... the trend in both Swan's performance and the team dates back to mid last year. IF attitude is the problem then jeeesuuus swanny coulda won the gf on his own last 4 years if only his attitude was right. haha. as if attitude was going to change the fact he can't kick ...

should we expect more from him? absolutely, every single membrt of the team needs to lift. should we expect leadership from him? no, he has clearly stated thats not for him. should he be dropped bacause he won a brownlow and we expect more from him? no, what bs, you put your best 22 on the field. all this crap about dal santo - have the saints won a flag????

Dane Swan is an accumulator, lousy kick, untaggable. Capable of the occasional flash of brilliance but in general going to reflect the team on the night, not going to win the game on his own. Waste your time expecting him to be someone else or blame him for any loss. Either way means FA. On the other hand we could just except what he is, appreciate him for that and ensure we have a team around him that will be able to capitilise on his accumulation.

Way too much emphasis put on attiude on BF. If attitude was everything Stephen Hawking would have won the last 20 brownlows, if he wanted .... Attitude is the icing on the cake, talent and skills are the cake. Swannie may not have the attitude commonly associated with champions of the game but the last two years have proved beyond doubt he has the talent and skills. Given he is not a leader at the club, surely he should be judged on his week to week contribution, not on our/whoevers expectation of what he should produce. I suggest on performance alone his position in the team is not under question at all

 

[Gone Critical]

WHat doesn this even mean? GAJ works unbelievably hard both ways and most importantly his tackling and pressure efforts around the contest are fantastic for a guy with such little help. Ablett has 14 tackles in 3 games, Swan has 5.

\

What it means is that even the best player in the comp has to work hard to get the big no of possies he does. Swan works hard, he tries. He can be better but too many in this thread have read way too much into his appearance on the field.

I don't disagree with much of what you say. Swan can improve his output but it not currently anywhere near the level of a player you would drop from the team

 

[rose jam]

Swan's symptom is like the rest of the team, they've hit the season under-prepared, I suspect it's been a miscalculation by Buttifant in a reaction to the big drop in physical effort last year. Swan will get into top gear soon enough, but the team simply isn't 4 quarter AFL fit at the moment and Buttifant is on thin ice in my book after having a poor 2011.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

Swannie (or rather his current performance) is simply a symptom of the teams malaise, not to the problem... the trend in both Swan's performance and the team dates back to mid last year. IF attitude is the problem then jeeesuuus swanny coulda won the gf on his own last 4 years if only his attitude was right. haha. as if attitude was going to change the fact he can't kick ...

should we expect more from him? absolutely, every single membrt of the team needs to lift. should we expect leadership from him? no, he has clearly stated thats not for him. should he be dropped bacause he won a brownlow and we expect more from him? no, what bs, you put your best 22 on the field. all this crap about dal santo - have the saints won a flag????

Dane Swan is an accumulator, lousy kick, untaggable. Capable of the occasional flash of brilliance but in general going to reflect the team on the night, not going to win the game on his own. Waste your time expecting him to be someone else or blame him for any loss. Either way means FA. On the other hand we could just except what he is, appreciate him for that and ensure we have a team around him that will be able to capitilise on his accumulation.

Way too much emphasis put on attiude on BF. If attitude was everything Stephen Hawking would have won the last 20 brownlows, if he wanted .... Attitude is the icing on the cake, talent and skills are the cake. Swannie may not have the attitude commonly associated with champions of the game but the last two years have proved beyond doubt he has the talent and skills. Given he is not a leader at the club, surely he should be judged on his week to week contribution, not on our/whoevers expectation of what he should produce. I suggest on performance alone his position in the team is not under question at all

great post. sorry to quote whole post but it sums up swanny. perfectly.

Lets see what he does this week

 

[Ed D]

Swan's symptom is like the rest of the team, they've hit the season under-prepared, I suspect it's been a miscalculation by Buttifant in a reaction to the big drop in physical effort last year. Swan will get into top gear soon enough, but the team simply isn't 4 quarter AFL fit at the moment and Buttifant is on thin ice in my book after having a poor 2011.

Unless you think Buttifant is responsible for the injuries players got last year and over the preseason I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion. The players have all said that each preseason has been tougher than the last.

 

[Rohan25]

Can't believe this board is still listening to this rubbish from fair and balanced opinion on Swan. Check his tackle stats for last year same as 2009 I think about 77 his highest was 2010 and we all know that was probably his best about 123.

And this year he's had 5 tackles in 3 games. At his current rate, he's headed for about 30-odd. If the last 3 years he's gone 77, 123 and 77, I would say the tackle stat indicates that his work rate is at best somewhat down on previous years.

 

[PieNSauce]

Personally I don't see an issue with Swanny that isn't an issue for quite a number of our playing group. When you consider the complete change of mindset that Bucks has tried to instill, it's hardly surprising that the longer serving players will be struggling to come to terms with it. Many of these guys have never in their AFL careers been charged with total responsibility for their own match day motivation. Add to that the tweaks in the game plan and the amount of missing personnel and frankly I find our performances this year to be totally unsurprising.

 

[jathanas]

Personally I don't see an issue with Swanny that isn't an issue for quite a number of our playing group. When you consider the complete change of mindset that Bucks has tried to instill, it's hardly surprising that the longer serving players will be struggling to come to terms with it. Many of these guys have never in their AFL careers been charged with total responsibility for their own match day motivation. Add to that the tweaks in the game plan and the amount of missing personnel and frankly I find our performances this year to be totally unsurprising.

Wise words. Putting all the injuries aside for a minute, it seems that people underestimate how much introducing a change in leadership and culture will impact team performance. There seems to be a "the players earn so much money, it shouldn't matter, they should just win..." attitude that prevails.

Life is not that simple, unlike machines people can't be instantly "re-programmed", or perfectly consistent. It frustrates us supporters but that's life. If winning football games was as simple as following a formula, we'd win the flag every year.

I love the drama.

 

[PieNSauce]

Wise words. Putting all the injuries aside for a minute, it seems that people underestimate how much introducing a change in leadership and culture will impact team performance. There seems to be a "the players earn so much money, it shouldn't matter, they should just win..." attitude that prevails.

Life is not that simple, unlike machines people can't be instantly "re-programmed", or perfectly consistent. It frustrates us supporters but that's life. If winning football games was as simple as following a formula, we'd win the flag every year.

I love the drama.

Hear Hear! God knows what we'd have to talk about without it!

 

[Markfs]

I never understand why people criticise the top players when the team is playing badly. There are a lot of players who arent doing enough. Why not concentrate on the lesser known players?