Oppo Camp Dangerfield's Gone (Zero tolerance to trolling) - READ THREAD LINKED IN OP BEFORE POSTING

[earlsta]

The issue will be while Fagan has said the Crows will match it, do you have the salary cap space in the first two years to actually match it, Geelong may come out with an offer you cant match given the amount of retirements and extra space available, their will be a whole lot more to play out with twists and turns yet as both parties look at scenarios.

We match anything.
If you come up with an offer "we can't match" then you're forced to pay Dangerfield that offer over the duration of his 5 year contract.
lol... the free agency contract is based on $$ PER ANNUM.

 

[rezagun]

The issue will be while Fagan has said the Crows will match it, do you have the salary cap space in the first two years to actually match it, Geelong may come out with an offer you cant match given the amount of retirements and extra space available, their will be a whole lot more to play out with twists and turns yet as both parties look at scenarios.

Dont you remember.. he cant be paid more than your captain..

 

[Niximus]

The issue will be while Fagan has said the Crows will match it, do you have the salary cap space in the first two years to actually match it, Geelong may come out with an offer you cant match given the amount of retirements and extra space available, their will be a whole lot more to play out with twists and turns yet as both parties look at scenarios.

People are still not understanding the rules here.

If you offer a 5 year contract we only need to match the total value over the years, front loading it is pointless.

The next thing you're going to say is "We'll just give him a 2 year contract at a huge amount, then his next contract can be small to even it out". If you're going to do that, you might as well give us your first and second round draft picks for the next 2 years, because that's what you'll lose when you get done for draft tampering. The AFL has specifically reminded clubs that dodgy deals like this are not on and all years must disclosed up front.

 

[Mismatched]

Isn't the entire deal matched, not necessarily having to be identical year to year?

Yep, as long as we match the years and average earning per year, we can match.

The AFL are cracking down on clubs massively front loading deals to put other clubs out of the market.

 

[Peter Doherty]

The issue will be while Fagan has said the Crows will match it, do you have the salary cap space in the first two years to actually match it, Geelong may come out with an offer you cant match given the amount of retirements and extra space available, their will be a whole lot more to play out with twists and turns yet as both parties look at scenarios.

Well we just happened to have lost our highest paid player this week, that kinda free's up some cash.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Are there other sports around the world that had a draft but it's since been taken away due to legal challenges?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The issue will be while Fagan has said the Crows will match it, do you have the salary cap space in the first two years to actually match it, Geelong may come out with an offer you cant match given the amount of retirements and extra space available, their will be a whole lot more to play out with twists and turns yet as both parties look at scenarios.

Great.

You do that.

That's how it's meant to work.

 

[Sanders]

It's also a fight I doubt the AFLPA want to have. The AFLs resources in terms of a legal battle far outweigh those of the AFLPA, I also suspect the AFLs lawyers would have spent countless hours analyzing every legal angle of the draft, as well as likely discussing it with the likes of the NBA and NFL, the AFLPAs strength is the importance of the players to the game.

I doubt they will be spending much time seeking advice on how to ensure they are compliant with US labour laws

Legal battles are not won only by the deepest pockets, and there would be no shortage of lawyers wanting to build a reputation as the guy who brought down the draft.

Besides, the AFLPA is a group of current, they've been through the draft already, what is their major motivating factor for spending millions of dollars of the players money on something which offers the players little to no benefit.

The biggest issue for the AFLPA right now is the issue of pensions and support for past players. It's just utterly untrue to suggest they only care about the here and now

The AFLPA are far more likely IMO, to push for unlimited free agency, or close to it. In fact they'd be far more likely to abolish the draft if the got FA qualification down to 4 or even 2 years, as this would essentially eliminate any benefit for the draft and the clubs would end up pushing for the abolishment of the draft. What is the point of a draft, if the player you draft can nick off freely 2-4 years later?

That's likely to be the end game and the way you get there is by threatening the draft. It's how they got free agency in the first place

 

[Barneythecrab]

People just need to be glass half full in these times:

- Dangers gone - but i trust the club to know what to do next. IF the compo pick(s) relate to us being able to trade on for another player that we need, then we take them.
If not, then we force whoever Danger is talking to into a trade situation.

Danger going sucks but it totally changes up our teams dynamic. We are not going to be shit just because he has gone. you never know, the team may actually play better as a team. Remove an individual thats very focused on being and individual and we may see the team blossom.

The key is not that Danger has gone, but how and who our club installs as new players and coach.

 

[marty36]

The issue will be while Fagan has said the Crows will match it, do you have the salary cap space in the first two years to actually match it, Geelong may come out with an offer you cant match given the amount of retirements and extra space available, their will be a whole lot more to play out with twists and turns yet as both parties look at scenarios.

Your right, we may be blown away by the offer it could be a godfather deal no one can argue with that as we dont know.

But as a cats supporter will Geelong go over the top because if it isnt a godfather deal it will be matched?

 

[Wood_Duck]

The issue will be while Fagan has said the Crows will match it, do you have the salary cap space in the first two years to actually match it, Geelong may come out with an offer you cant match given the amount of retirements and extra space available, their will be a whole lot more to play out with twists and turns yet as both parties look at scenarios.

The killer is, we only have to match it on paper. We will never actually have to match it. Some temporary re jigging by us makes matching extremely simple. You blokes actually have to enact it.

 

[Sanders]

Are there other sports around the world that had a draft but it's since been taken away due to legal challenges?

There are almost no sports that have a draft.

Major League Baseball's draft only exists through the antiquated antitrust exemption granted by congress. They've previously lost in court

The NBA's is based on the joint collective bargaining between players union and league as a single employer. It does not stand without the unions consent.

 

[Sanders]

People are still not understanding the rules here.

If you offer a 5 year contract we only need to match the total value over the years, front loading it is pointless.

The next thing you're going to say is "We'll just give him a 2 year contract at a huge amount, then his next contract can be small to even it out". If you're going to do that, you might as well give us your first and second round draft picks for the next 2 years, because that's what you'll lose when you get done for draft tampering. The AFL has specifically reminded clubs that dodgy deals like this are not on and all years must disclosed up front.

That's not quite right

You are absolutely allowed to sign someone up for 2 years at a crazy high amount and then negotiate a much lower amount after for their next contract

What you cannot do is agree to do that upfront.

 

[feenix67]

Makes you wonder whether the draft + free agency and now + academies is workable in our game and demographic. You'd almost think acadamies, salary cap and free market would be the better way to go. The current system is contrived, inequitable and undermines the premise of equalisation to a large extent anyway.

 

[catman2006]

The killer is, we only have to match it on paper. We will never actually have to match it. Some temporary re jigging by us makes matching extremely simple. You blokes actually have to enact it.

You need to have the cap room by the figures submitted to the AFL so you at very least have to have the space to be able to match

 

[rezagun]

The killer is, we only have to match it on paper. We will never actually have to match it. Some temporary re jigging by us makes matching extremely simple. You blokes actually have to enact it.

I think having justin reid as our list manager is a huge advantage. Being an ex player manager he will be across every scenario possible.

 

[marty36]

That's not quite right

You are absolutely allowed to sign someone up for 2 years at a crazy high amount and then negotiate a much lower amount after for their next contract

What you cannot do is agree to do that upfront.

You would think though that Ken Wood would be watching the next contract and in two years if PD had won a brownlow was on $1.7 Million per year then a new contract went over Kens desk at $500K per year. The integrity issue would be raised about the first contract and sanctions would be applied. There is really no escaping any dodgey deals. I believe Wood recently sent a letter advising the clubs that are watching any unusual activity. Geelong simply wouldnt risk it or if they did they would be lunatics.

 

[Niximus]

That's not quite right

You are absolutely allowed to sign someone up for 2 years at a crazy high amount and then negotiate a much lower amount after for their next contract

What you cannot do is agree to do that upfront.

If it wasn't agreed to up front, a player going from say, $1.3m for 2 years to 600k for the next 3 is never going to happen barring a ridiculous loss of form or injury.

 

[rezagun]

You need to have the cap room by the figures submitted to the AFL so you at very least have to have the space to be able to match

Were matching. Accept it.

 

[SugarShane]

Any chance we could be on the receiving end of one of these 'gun player/junior star' wanting to return home?

Kinda sick of being the one developing the talent only to watch it waltz out at its peak. Think the footy gods owe us one.

It's shit. For some reason SA born guns just don't have the same sooky "go home" needs that Victorian guys do. Our guys get drafted to Victorian teams and never look back.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

I think you are still blinded by the RFA tag. You think because danger is a RFA you should be able to get him for peanuts. You think because we can get pick 15 compo without you giving up anything we should just take it. Clearly that's in geelong's best interest but the crows couldn't care less about geelong's best interests.

If you offer a match-able salary snd we match, RFA is out the window. It is now totally irrelevant whether he was a free agent to start with. He could have even been a secret agent at that point, it's just as relevant.

On merit, danger is worth two top 5 picks. He's a gun. You know it, I know it. Geelong knows it, otherwise they wouldn't have been talking to danger the last three years.

So giving up pick 9 and pick ~11 (just for argument's sake) is an absolute bargain. You just don't see it because you're still blinded by the free agency headline. You'll be a net better side by giving up two picks like that and getting danger in return.

I can't quite understand why it's so difficult for Geelong fans to understand this.

Did you actually read the post or just blindly make presumptions?
Nothing you have said is relevant to my post.

 

[catman2006]

Dare say interpretation will be the issue on each club as its open ruling
In order to qualify as a matching offer, the player’s existing club must make an offer on the same terms as the new offer tabled by the player in respect of the following matters: 1) contract length; 2) base payments; 3) total match payments; 4) total ASA payments; 5) total performance incentives based on AFL awards or honours, club best-and-fairest finish or games played (not including finals). Any incentives for team performance are not required to be matched. A player may not table an offer to be matched for less than a two-year contract len

 

[Niximus]

Dare say interpretation will be the issue on each club as its open ruling
In order to qualify as a matching offer, the player’s existing club must make an offer on the same terms as the new offer tabled by the player in respect of the following matters: 1) contract length; 2) base payments; 3) total match payments; 4) total ASA payments; 5) total performance incentives based on AFL awards or honours, club best-and-fairest finish or games played (not including finals). Any incentives for team performance are not required to be matched. A player may not table an offer to be matched for less than a two-year contract len

It's already been interpreted, the total amount is what needs to be matched, not the year-by-year payments.

 

[Jarman3]

Dont you remember.. he cant be paid more than your captain..

Maybe they'll just make Danger captain, then they can pay him whatever the hell they want

 

[marty36]

You need to have the cap room by the figures submitted to the AFL so you at very least have to have the space to be able to match

We are paying him $700K now its not much of an incraese in the scheme of things. I think your wasting your time talking about $$ it was reported there are 9 clubs paying only 95% of salary cap, Port are one paying 105%. We have delistings and more to come Reilly retired thsi year already he would have been around $300-$350K Thomos wage would have come down considerably having taken a one year deal just to play on. $$ wont be an issue.

Ill grant you if a godfather offer is made it will be difficult but ask you the question do you think Geelong would put a godfather deal on the table, with Steve Hocking, Joel Selwood , Mitch Duncan and your coach saying you will not go out of your pay structure. I am pretty sure 99% of people would say no, apart from a despearte Geelong BF poster